detansinn

Again, this happened to VW in 2019. It’s not like there’s new ground to cover.

detansinn

The biggest issue for the dealers will be the irate customers who aren't accepting of the delays. Carrier ships aren't easy to come by. With one ship out of action for sustained period of time, everyone is going to experience delays in the coming months. Even if you were lucky enough not to be on Felicity Ace, there's little doubt that other cars will experience further delays coming out of Emden.

CodyBigdog

Maybe…but you know, for 100% certainty that VW was found at fault, or partially at fault, and yet, was fully reimbursed? Insider info?

CodyBigdog

I totally agree with this….and I suspect this disruption will impact, for some period of time, the number of cars delivered, resulting in reduced compensation for SA’s? Customers will have to be resigned for longer waits, Porsche, as a brand, will be fine, the ownership of dealerships will be fine…all/most of the aforementioned are well off…..but the sales force and supporting staff may be pinched the most?

Drew46

The you simply don't understand insurance. You are absolutely insuring against the errors - and negligence - of your employees. I agree that the policy won't waive any and all responsibilities" but I am sure they have an errors and omissions policy. That coverage may may not be in the policy covering the vessel - so there may end up being a battle between the different insurance companies - but I would be beyond shocked if they don't have coverage. The real questions is whether and to what extent Porsche self-insures.

ADias

Fire source Poll:

1 - ship equipment fire

2 - gasoline fire

3 - Li-Ion fire

detansinn

1 - failure of ship equipment is the most likely cause

Porsche757

3 - This is a new threat with the growing number of EVs.

icanthelpit

This is pointless.

Maverick787

Spot on - when I was working and we signed contracts we always include indemnification clauses which would cover the company I worked for a host of things even negligence of an employee. You can’t have one employee through negligence put the entire business at risk, but you may pay higher premiums for such things.
https://legal.thomsonreuters.com/en/...cial-contracts

malba2366

I think the 911 crowd will be ok as VW will prioritize over most other cars due to the sale prices. There may be a temporary stop to shipping of Taycan and other EVs if it becomes clear that lithium ion batteries contributed to an out of control fire...at least one article has already said the batteries contributed to the fire.

malba2366

The bigger problem is that once one of these batteries (whether it caused the fire or became engulfed in flames from a fire of a different cause) becomes ignited it is impossible to put out in the cargo hold of a ship.

krabman

You have 1.28 initial defects per car at best and 2.31 at worst in MY21, multiply that by the number of cars. I'm not in any way saying it started as a vehicle fire but the possibility can't be written off without doing an analysis of the fire. On the boat side you've got electrical with any one of the wire runs, electrical panels, that sort of thing as a potential culprit. There are also hydraulics that may have played a part. No idea if there are more or less potential causes there than in the cars but they're certainly present. More than you might expect; boats move and things as simple as a broken wire tie allowing a wire to chaff as the boat rolls until it is abraded to the point of arcing has caused fires.

There are other causes as well, lot of fires were started by someone sneaking a smoke for example. Any number of negligent acts by the crew may have played a roll. I'm told a car can occasionally get loose which would open more doors.

One or more of the crewmembers may know exactly what happened. That will leak out soon enough if it's the case. They may not know which means your waiting for for the survey which will take time. Right now I'm not convinced any of us are going to be doing more than throwing darts at a board with the possibilities.

CodyBigdog

Never claimed to be an insurance expert, and especially when it comes to maritime law/insurance. But I am familiar with both general and professional liability insurance which provided liability insurance to me / company against accidental accidents and negligence, etc. But like any insurance, it had it’s limits on the liability coverage/payout.

I just read this:

”With cargo typically insured at full replacement value, especially items that are high value, Skytek suggests that this could be a half a billion dollar loss for the marine re/insurance industry.Skytek also states that the estimated market value of the ship is $24.5 billion.”

So, while all 3,954 cars are (likely) fully insured, the much larger price tag could be the ship itself … if it went down, or needed extensive repair? While I’m sure the shipping company is insured for such events, if it were ever determined that Porsche’s negligence was the cause…could the ships’ insurance company go after someone to try and recoup such a huge loss? I don’t know, but given the amount of money involved, I’m sure all the lawyers will be busy? Time will tell?


To be honest, I find this fascinating. Can’t wait for the movie!

detansinn

Once the fire was going, yeah, batteries, like gasoline, will contribute to the blaze, but there’s nothing to support that EVs started the fire.

Many 992s have Li batteries as do Bentley and Lamborghini vehicles that were also on board.