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The FA is still adrift and burning. This will require a specialized recovery.
Tugs arrive mid next week.
Towing boats were on route from Gibraltar and the Netherlands, with three due to arrive by Wednesday, Cabecas said. He added the vessel could not be towed to the Azores because it was so big it would block trade at the port.
A 16-person salvage team from Smit Salvage, owned by Dutch marine engineer Boskalis, was sent to the ship to help control the flames, Boskalis said.
That's not what the article says. It says tugs have been dispatched to go get the FA. But to my understanding, it is still adrift and still burning (or at least smoldering).
Well sure, the tugs have to get there first.
The Felicity Ace, which caught fire near the coast of the Azores, will be towed to another European country or the Bahamas, the captain of the nearest port told Reuters on Friday.
From an article I read: “There are 3,965 vehicles on board the Felicity Ace, which the company has often chartered to bring their cars to North America.
Volkswagen confirmed that in addition to Porsche and VW vehicles, there are also 189 Bentleys and an unspecified number of Audis onboard.”
Porsche says it’s too early to speculate about the cause.
The estimated market value of the Felicity Ace is $24.5 million, while the total value of the 3965 vehicles could be over $500 million.
Mitsui OSK Lines Ltd, the operator of Felicity Ace, said it has commissioned a salvage company to assess the situation. An initial team arrived in the Azores and was expected to reach the ship later Friday. “Further salvage assets are being readied to attend the vessel,” the company said in a statement. “MOL will make every effort to contain the damage and resolve the situation as the main priorities.”
100% they are burning now...once caught fire even if from another source most likely the cause of some of the difficulty in putting the fires out is that the EVs are gonna burn until they burn themselves out and there's no more thermal source. So even if an ICE Bentley started it all from a battery arc or some leaky oil/fuel tank...those things are so packed bumper to bumper in there its gonna just spread. Look at this worker's tour on youtube and you can get an idea of how close/cramped it is inside and you'll get a better picture of how easy the fire spreads and how hard it is to fight it...hell I don't see how he gets inside any of them to start them up to drive them off let alone how they parked them! Its like TETRIS in there! Good lord! Now you can see how getting one to port let alone to your dealer without damage is a minor miracle and why some of our cars may mysteriously get "delayed" at port for PDI...probably fixing dings/damage!
The "Pool" in the 718 GTS forum has the "Smart Money" on an EV fire with Sea Water as the Fire Suppressant just causing a larger problem. Thus they could not control the fire and had to abandon ship.
We will have to wait and see what the cause and issues were
NTSB will probably say something in a few months/year or two or the European equivalent one would think.
Originally Posted by reloader-1
0% chance that anything on this is ever delivered. Liability risk from the smoke, heat, etc, even IF something is apparently undamaged.
If anything makes it to shore, it will be scrapped.
Agree....insurers would go ape **** if they tried it on both sides...manufacturer and insurer here in the US. Would think those VIN #s would be flagged and NO-WAY any company in the US would issue a policy for them.
Originally Posted by inthesticks
At this point, speculation or not we know two things for a fact. 1) the ship had a massive fire. 2) The ship was evacuated of all supervision for an extended period of time. Those factors alone should render all of the vehicles unsalvageable. The potential for liability to VW if just one of those cars is used is massive - and it would make zero sense for them not to declare a total loss.
Right now VW/Porsche should be assuming total loss, and determining next steps for the dealers and affected customers.
Yes too much damange and referred damage. Selling one of those cars would be bad business practices and owning one even crazier...but hey maybe SAMCRAC off youtube will get one and fix it up with some Home Depot air fresheners and Milwaukee tools? LOL
Originally Posted by siberian
Last count about 1,100 Porsches + unknown number of VDubs of all designations from the 2,500 vehicles on board.
For those who don't speak/read Spanish/Portuguese, video from the Portuguese Navy shows the extent of the damage.
Cause etc. let's not speculate. Glad no one was injured or died and hopefully Porsche will make this right, as for owners, can't fathom what another delay means.
The Felicity is owned by Mitsui OSK Lines of Japan with the crew being evacuated to Faial Island about 100 miles from the ship in flames and adrift. Tugs are being contacted to tow it to the nearest port but it could be declared a total loss.
Yes crew headed to mainland Spain/Europe now. Ship towed to Azores to extinguish then likely to ship breakers in Turkey/Mediterranean or Asia. Load will depend on once they get aboard to see the damage and IF they can easily remove any of the cars without putting folks and the ship further at risk. Fire buckles and weakens stuff especially steel and superstructures so even if they put it out if say bucklheads and floors and ramps are weakened then they may just leave them there.
My dealership had 11 cars affected . They were awaiting any news . With multiple decks and closed containers all hope is not gone yet. My car was not on the boat . I missed it by the skin of my teeth as my car arrived at Emden on 2/11 .
I know the talk is everywhere . The theories range from the EV lithium batteries but no one knows , A leaking fuel tank and a tossed cigarette can burn a boat too. I feel its premature to conclude anything . If my car was on that boat I would prepare for anything but not write it off until I was told "its over" . Hang in there for those faced with this .
Yes no one knows when/where/how it came about. Will find out in due time as long as it stays afloat. On a ship it seems especially lots of combustibles outside of the cars themselves.
Originally Posted by detansinn
It’s been adrift and burning for several days. Every car on that ship is a loss. I wouldn’t cling to the hope that somehow your car is okay.
I’m sure that Porsche will give production priority to those impacted.
VW lost another carrier to fire in 2019. These things do happen. Cars burn pretty well (and hot), regardless of ICE or EV. It’s got the kind of hot that deforms steel, especially contained within the hold.
Friends on the US Navy side say yes...inside a ship especially of that size...heat becomes the problem and combustibles and spacing...lots of closed off spaces that are hard to get to and put our fires that are even more difficult to do at sea. Therefore the goal is often to put them out as quickly as possible and not let them burn...this one has been burning for what 48hrs and unattended. Not good my friends say for saving anything on board. Tow it and scrap it is likely.
Originally Posted by Drew46
I cannot state it as a fact, but I don't think the ro ros have closed containers. I think they are generally open inside to increase carrying capacity. If the fire is not on one of the lower decks and burns up only there is a very small chance some cars below could survive. But fire transfers many ways - including conduction, which a big old steel ship is perfect for. Add in smoke and heat damage - these cars will have sat and baked in what is effectively a very large kiln for days - and I speculate (with Siberian's forgiveness) that the chance of these cars being salvageable is very low.
Very happy to hear you car missed the boat. My original schedule was to be complete on the 11th but I am still in production so I share the feeling of frustration turning to pure relief.
Yes I see no car coming out of there to be of any use except maybe a teaching lab for firefighters on cars on fire at sea and how to prevent them or fight them and/or manufacturers to use to make them maybe easier/safer to ship. Can you imagine you get one that was say at the very bottom deck of the ship that looks good. No water damage. No smoke damage visible and something..anything on the car fails down the road? No way to say it was just random but also no way to say it wasn't due to this massive fire either. Insurance and lawsuit would have a field day! Hell remember the legal notes on our PCMs and why we can't say enter an address on the move all cause the lawyers say so....what do you THINK they are saying now in German legal talk now about selling ANY car on that ship to anyone at Porsche AG in the executive suite? "NEIN Herr Prasident Porsche AG bist du verruckt?" probably! LOL. No the whole load is likely toast and that convo is being repeated across VW brands on board.
Originally Posted by Russian Mafia
I have a Macan GTS on that ship. Had Euro delivery been available I would have done that. So at least it's not my mess to clean up but we'll see how long until I get a replacement.
Sorry for you loss....I'd be sad and SMDH also. But as with my recent Taycan CT-4 which arrived last month...each month delay I just used to spend the cash I'd use on it on another bill or priority...so looked at the positive side of delays not negative. Hope there is one for you...like a 2022 model vs a 2021 or free maintenance from Porsche or no ADM or something! GL
Originally Posted by wam22
Latest news from my dealer is that Porsche will replace every sold order on there ASAP and has given them priority for production.
Good on Porsche but likely will push others in line to the right/later delivery for them. Fair for their cars to be produced early and bump in line I guess...class act by Porsche. Should be easy to find another replacement carrier to contract..supposedly there are 7000+ RORO ships in the inventory worldwide. What would really be A++ for Porsche if the took these 1000 cars lost and offered each sold owner waiting for a car not only next scheduled production on the lines starting say 2 weeks but offered to fly them to them here in NA via cargo freight air. They do it for their demos to get them to journalists for releases so why now do the same in batches for everyone who wants it? Say delivery them to either Porsche CEC in LA or ATL with a day for free. Cuts out the trauma of a repeat shipping and most of the wait also as that could have unexpected circumstances for those who have to maybe now finance or lease cars as a higher rate later in the year? Unknown and unexpected cost there too for some of these owner to be considered, no?
Originally Posted by Lander911
Yeah, it's all gone.
That doesn't look good for the cargo. Ship will likely survive and word is being towed to port to let fire subside and cook down but inside those cargo decks I would expect everything is toasted/ruined even if far from the far in a lower deck from the water/methods that will need to still be used to put down the fire in the rest of the ship and its load. Good explanation here.
I don't think any of the VW/Audi/Porsche EVs have a propensity for self combustion, the bigger issue is that once these things catch on fire it is damn near impossible to put the fire out on a RORO ship. Anything can cause a fire on a ship, but having cargo on board that can combust uncontrollably like LiON batteries is a huge risk, especially the quantity of the material on a ship carrying hundreds or thousands of EVs. I think eventually the cars will have to be shipped without batteries and the batteries will have to be installed after the car is off the ship. The battery packs will have to be built locally, or shipped over in connex containers that can be flooded with fire suppressant should a fire break out in the batteries.
Yes no one knows what started the fire and precedent is here for fires starting aboard vehicles for multiple reasons as some have already posted on this forum and others. Real truths seems to be 1) EV batteries much like any lithium rechargeable battery can be difficult to extinguish. Ask any firefighter who has to put out a warehouse full of them on the ground let along in a car. Burn at high temps and water doesn't do much to extinguish them...must be cooled vs water to smother and one key bit of fire fighting..cutting off O2 doesn't do the trick. Danger is more extensive as we see Li batteries, composites, and other new exotics used in almost everything we use. Even local fire fighter teams are getting new training on this as we can thank Tesla who's been out for a min with making it know for most firefighters (my brother is a volunteer one and talked to me about how difficult they can be in any fire where a Li-Ion and others are present. Also once a fire is started it is difficult to extinguish on board ANY ship. Some of my Navy friends tell me how it can be a real problem to fight especially at sea. Look at the Bhomme Richard Landing Ship that burned to salvage last year...that was at dock and by a seaman/worker acting probably in a hazzardous and/or negligent manner it seems. So yeah 22 guys (crew) to put out the fire once it spread on the Felicity was an almost impossible task once it spread. ALL the cars become tinder and from the reports its spread across the desks from stem to stern on the ship. Not sure how many decks are involved but remember the ships bascially become an oven once fire is started. Its like a kiln...radiating heat which will destroy everything. No matter where on the ship even far from the fire are still probably affected...smoke, heat, water/suppressant damage will be like far ranging. So yes salvage ops are the vector now likely.
Originally Posted by siberian
Must be an echo here...
siberian
Siberian...lots of echos from same media and other sources it seems. One thing most likely true or a few things are...1) Ship as NOT been recovered yet, 2) its still burning and will do so for a while probably 3) no one knows what happened despite speculations of EV batteries and such all by folks who probably never have shipped one in such circumstances nor know anything about fighting fires at sea 4) Porsche will replace lost vehicles by VIN somewhere in their production line so yes ongoing/expected cars just got bumped probably and the wait is a bit longer 5) Everyone got off safely..which is great. 6) this is a 1st world problem for many...as most of the cars on there outside of the other VW's were all likely high value production cars! Sucks for those who have to wait but not like a ship full of Corolla's or Kia's caught on fire. We are all blessed!
“Ship will likely survive“.... that ship will more likely soon break apart. From just above the waterline, it is visible to have burned from stem to stern. The exterior hull plate appears to be burned through on the right side of the photo. A storm of any magnitude and that ship will take on water and sink. I saw another photo taken facing the bow, and the ship appears that it is beginning to list.
Last edited by Newport IRL; 02-19-2022 at 04:29 AM.
The Felicity Ace, which caught fire near the coast of the Azores, will be towed to another European country or the Bahamas, the captain of the nearest port told Reuters on Friday.
You really want to stand your ground on this when the immediate three posts call it out for being inaccurate? The is a difference between "is being towed" and "will be towed". And the later is pretty much a given and not worth a post, no?
The estimated market value of the Felicity Ace is $24.5 million, while the total value of the 3965 vehicles could be over $500 million.
I saw the same estimates, but that would put the average car value at around $125K. I would have guessed that the higher number of VWs would have countered the much fewer Bently, Lambo and expensive Porsches to bring a lower average. Even using MSRP (or contract price) over inventory cost, it still feels a bit exaggerated to me.
Sorry if this was reported before, but any reports whether all of the cargo, so to speak, is toast? Any of the cars salvageable? Any reliable source for the cause?
Wait, there’s this (is this from the latest incident, or 2019?);
”the vessel has not been
recovered and it is not confirmed that any
units on the Felicity Ace are deemed a
loss. However, as a contingency plan we
have already prioritized production….”
So, from this statement it does NOT look like Porsche has confirmed that any vehicles are a “loss”.Once inspected, and once any vehicles are not deemed a loss, what happens? Do owners get the right to refuse delivery, with all deposits returned?
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 02-19-2022 at 10:58 AM.
The intense heat of gasoline, tires, and EV batteries burning in contained space was hot enough to bend and warp steel. The toxic smoke was a potpourri of rubber, vaporized paint and plastic, gasoline, EV battery metals, and other chemicals. Anyone walking through the aftermath has oxygen with them and a hazmat suit.
Even if a car in there managed to avoid direct fire and the billowing clouds of toxic awful, the heat would have melted wiring insulation, connectors, and other components. Every car on board that ship will be scrapped, because VW isn’t going to assume the liability of a car that could have been compromised in the Felicity Ace fire.
When this happened in 2019, they built replacement cars. The latest message in Track Your Dream suggests the same here.
02-19-2022, 12:43 AM
