992 - another overpriced, unsatisfying non-GT 911
#76
Go to User CP > Edit Ignore List > Add a Member to Your List.
Just type in the user's name and click Okay. Their posts will now automatically be hidden from view.
I don't think the Ignore functionality is as smart here as on some forums. Meaning if someone quotes the person on your Ignore list you'll still see the quoted post. Can't recall as I only have one person on Ignore here.
Just remember you have someone on ignore if there seems to be gaps in a thread or someone starts commenting about something you think is weirdly off topic. Might be because someone on Ignore said something to start the thread down that direction.
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JMartinni (07-30-2019)
#77
#78
You define trolling as test driving a car and reporting on it? Since when is trolling posting something you don't agree with?
This is the only thread destaccado has started in the 992 forum. Outside of this thread, 28 posts over a 4 months is hardly excessive.
Lex, Go play hall monitor somewhere else.
For everyone else, if you don't like someone's review of the 992 (or anything) either post a rebuttal or just ignore the post. Or just post the user on ignore as suggested above.
This is the only thread destaccado has started in the 992 forum. Outside of this thread, 28 posts over a 4 months is hardly excessive.
Lex, Go play hall monitor somewhere else.
For everyone else, if you don't like someone's review of the 992 (or anything) either post a rebuttal or just ignore the post. Or just post the user on ignore as suggested above.
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#80
My posts, Rob's, yours, etc won't change the facts or move the market.
The 992 may be the most overpriced 911 ever made. In a day when you can go order a beautiful GT4 or Spyder to spec - it's jumped the shark. I never thought I'd see the day where the new Boxster / Cayman were more desirable models than a new 911 but in my opinion we're there.
The days of ragging on McLaren about their horrendous depreciation may not be over yet but it sure looks like Porsche is working hard at trying to join them.
In fairness, Panamera buyers are already used to heavy depreciation. Why would buyers of the mini version expect any different?
The 992 may be the most overpriced 911 ever made. In a day when you can go order a beautiful GT4 or Spyder to spec - it's jumped the shark. I never thought I'd see the day where the new Boxster / Cayman were more desirable models than a new 911 but in my opinion we're there.
The days of ragging on McLaren about their horrendous depreciation may not be over yet but it sure looks like Porsche is working hard at trying to join them.
In fairness, Panamera buyers are already used to heavy depreciation. Why would buyers of the mini version expect any different?
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Freddie Two Bs (07-30-2019)
#82
The quote I keep thinking of when I read these posts about ‘unforced errors’ and ‘incoherent design language’ is from my Grandmama. Whenever i’d get strident she’d say quite deadpan: ‘well it’s a pity the good Lord didn’t consult you when he created the earth’.
I’ve driven the 997S and the 991.2S extensively, and the 992S for a couple of days before I bought. Thrash it up and down a few mountain passes and you will know that the notion that it is ‘no longer a sports car’ just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. It’s fast, agile and you can’t help but grin from ear to ear.
#83
So many emotionally charged opinions and overly dramatic statements about about the demise of the 911…. pure lunacy. When people are left to complain about door handles and shifters you know it’s a home run.
The 992 is slightly bigger, but not by anything meaningful. It actually has the identical wheelbase as the 991, and the overall length is only greater by 20 mm which is due mostly to a more aggressive front end. The overall height is only taller by 4 mm. While 4 mm is nothing to begin with, the driver actually sits lower in the car. These are totally insignificant numbers. If you don’t like the width, you’d be in the vast minority and I’d advise you to turn your head when the turbos are announced. When was the last time you heard anyone say, “I don’t like the wide body.”
Regarding weight, the body structure is now 70% aluminum (compared to 30% before) which actually makes the structure 121 lbs lighter than the 991. The overall curb weight is up 163 lbs, due to numerous advances/additions in performance, electronics, comfort and technology. While weight is important in any sports car, it’s not nearly as crucial in these every-day 911’s which are never tracked. There’s not a single buyer of this car who will notice 160 lbs. 0-60 is quicker. Handling and braking is better. Weight to hp power ratio is slightly better. Driving it feels lighter, more nimble and agile — and the performance stats prove it.
Better performance: 0-60 quicker (.4 sec better than 991), quicker around the Nurburgring (5 seconds better), larger turbochargers, new injection technologies, electrical control over the waste-gate flaps, more torque (+22), more horsepower (+23), air flow to the turbochargers improved, better design and positioning of the air coolers creating better air flow, infinitely adjustable exhaust flaps, better engine mounts which are positioned differently.
Better PDK: additional gear, flash-shifting from the 991 GT models with better shift times and shift quality
Better aerodynamics: variable cooling flaps, reduced lift, 25% larger rear spoiler
More direct steering (10% better) with better feedback; stiffer torsion bar
Better braking feel with an electric brake booster and shorter pedal travel. Braking from 62 mph (100 k/h) is 3 feet shorter. From 186 mph is 39 feet shorter.
Better suspension with 4D chassis control, new PASM with adjustable dampers and better software, redesigned Porsche Traction Management
Better grip with completely new tire compound developed specifically for the 992 which contributes to better handling.
It’s strange to see Porsche "enthusiasts" on a Porsche forum slam so much of what Porsche engineers are creating these days. Calling them idiots, suggesting the success of the 911 is over, etc. Conversations about the 911R, the Speedster, the Taycan, the new 992 — there seems to be a group on Rennlist readily available all day to hate anything Porsche creates.
For everyone else, you'll love the 992.
The 992 is slightly bigger, but not by anything meaningful. It actually has the identical wheelbase as the 991, and the overall length is only greater by 20 mm which is due mostly to a more aggressive front end. The overall height is only taller by 4 mm. While 4 mm is nothing to begin with, the driver actually sits lower in the car. These are totally insignificant numbers. If you don’t like the width, you’d be in the vast minority and I’d advise you to turn your head when the turbos are announced. When was the last time you heard anyone say, “I don’t like the wide body.”
Regarding weight, the body structure is now 70% aluminum (compared to 30% before) which actually makes the structure 121 lbs lighter than the 991. The overall curb weight is up 163 lbs, due to numerous advances/additions in performance, electronics, comfort and technology. While weight is important in any sports car, it’s not nearly as crucial in these every-day 911’s which are never tracked. There’s not a single buyer of this car who will notice 160 lbs. 0-60 is quicker. Handling and braking is better. Weight to hp power ratio is slightly better. Driving it feels lighter, more nimble and agile — and the performance stats prove it.
Better performance: 0-60 quicker (.4 sec better than 991), quicker around the Nurburgring (5 seconds better), larger turbochargers, new injection technologies, electrical control over the waste-gate flaps, more torque (+22), more horsepower (+23), air flow to the turbochargers improved, better design and positioning of the air coolers creating better air flow, infinitely adjustable exhaust flaps, better engine mounts which are positioned differently.
Better PDK: additional gear, flash-shifting from the 991 GT models with better shift times and shift quality
Better aerodynamics: variable cooling flaps, reduced lift, 25% larger rear spoiler
More direct steering (10% better) with better feedback; stiffer torsion bar
Better braking feel with an electric brake booster and shorter pedal travel. Braking from 62 mph (100 k/h) is 3 feet shorter. From 186 mph is 39 feet shorter.
Better suspension with 4D chassis control, new PASM with adjustable dampers and better software, redesigned Porsche Traction Management
Better grip with completely new tire compound developed specifically for the 992 which contributes to better handling.
It’s strange to see Porsche "enthusiasts" on a Porsche forum slam so much of what Porsche engineers are creating these days. Calling them idiots, suggesting the success of the 911 is over, etc. Conversations about the 911R, the Speedster, the Taycan, the new 992 — there seems to be a group on Rennlist readily available all day to hate anything Porsche creates.
For everyone else, you'll love the 992.
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#84
Porsche rarely makes a misstep in terms of making a better car; one can argue on design decisions, but the overall package is usually a continuous evolution of driving bliss.
That being said, the price of this new 992 is a bit shocking. I’m a Porsche guy to the end, but when I build one it’s impossible to spec it under $140k. For that coin I could get a CPO Turbo for a daily driver and have more warranty length. For me the cost is the shocking part that makes me pause. All of my GT3s and RSs I’ve ordered where obviously more expensive but I never questioned the cost as they seemed worth it. This new 992, I’m struggling.
That being said, the price of this new 992 is a bit shocking. I’m a Porsche guy to the end, but when I build one it’s impossible to spec it under $140k. For that coin I could get a CPO Turbo for a daily driver and have more warranty length. For me the cost is the shocking part that makes me pause. All of my GT3s and RSs I’ve ordered where obviously more expensive but I never questioned the cost as they seemed worth it. This new 992, I’m struggling.
For example, there's a 2018 Turbo available in LA for $170k asking with 4500 miles and an original purchase date of 3/2018. Ok, so if you bought that in September vs a new 992S (which is at least 30k cheaper), you're getting 5 extra months of warranty. I just don't think that's a big enough deal to be like, CPO IS BETTER. And that's a relatively new model year CPO, a 2017 or 2016 CPO lease return is going to have 36 months or less of the warranty. There are going to be exceptions to this obviously, if you find a CPO (like my Dad's Macan GTS) that was 4 months old and CPO'd, you have 68 months of warranty, that's an extra 20 months over the new warranty. But I think you really need to be at 6-9 months or more over the factory warranty to see a significant benefit.
You can argue depreciation curves too, but based on my own trade-in and buying experience, the markup on CPO cars is very very high. My 718 Cayman was listed for sale at 12k more than I was given in trade. 42k vs 54k. That's 23.3% of markup over trade in value. 911's have better depreciation but I'm sure the dealer markup is about the same, so if you're buying a 2017 CPO 911 GTS (let's say) for 135k vs paying 133k (140k x 5% discount) for a new 2020 992S, is the markup and warranty situation really that much different?
Last edited by ianmSC; 07-30-2019 at 03:50 PM.
#85
Mr. Whale - I appreciate your opinion even though I disagree. The devil is in the details. Some of the details in the 992 are a mess. The cup holder, the nubbin, the faulty door handles. The front fascia and the rear are both a mess to my eyes. From a driving dynamics standpoint, it sounds like the car is a winner. But there is more to the driving experience than how well the car drives. Jancko put a sock on the nubbin which speaks volumes about what he thinks about that detail. To you, it may be insignificant and to you it may be quibbling. To others, myself included, it is a major misfire by Porsche. We are all welcome to our opinions. No one is in the right here.
Addendum: And the fact that the car is heavier is a huge turn-off for me. The 991 was larger than the 997 but lighter. Not so with the 992. Porsche took 2 steps forward in some areas (steering, 0-60 speed, for instance) but they took 1 step back in others (nubbin, cup holder, Tron rear light, car weight, Tesla-esque flush door handles...).
Addendum: And the fact that the car is heavier is a huge turn-off for me. The 991 was larger than the 997 but lighter. Not so with the 992. Porsche took 2 steps forward in some areas (steering, 0-60 speed, for instance) but they took 1 step back in others (nubbin, cup holder, Tron rear light, car weight, Tesla-esque flush door handles...).
Last edited by Porsche911GTS'16; 07-30-2019 at 04:02 PM.
#86
Funny how contrary your evaluation is to all the motoring journalists out there. I've barely seen anything negative that's actually a deal breaker (gear shifter, door handles ) I'll take Chris Harris's opinion over yours OP. I don't care for the nubbin either, but that's why I'll get a MT, with maybe an aftermarket exhaust.
It's like complaing over electric vs hydraulic steering, it's done, time to move on. Unless of course you can somehow convince the EU to relax emissions. Since as politicians are falling over themselves to ban gas cars, good luck to you.
The 992 is beautiful and I can't wait to own one.
It's like complaing over electric vs hydraulic steering, it's done, time to move on. Unless of course you can somehow convince the EU to relax emissions. Since as politicians are falling over themselves to ban gas cars, good luck to you.
The 992 is beautiful and I can't wait to own one.
#87
My posts, Rob's, yours, etc won't change the facts or move the market.
The 992 may be the most overpriced 911 ever made. In a day when you can go order a beautiful GT4 or Spyder to spec - it's jumped the shark. I never thought I'd see the day where the new Boxster / Cayman were more desirable models than a new 911 but in my opinion we're there.
The days of ragging on McLaren about their horrendous depreciation may not be over yet but it sure looks like Porsche is working hard at trying to join them.
In fairness, Panamera buyers are already used to heavy depreciation. Why would buyers of the mini version expect any different?
The 992 may be the most overpriced 911 ever made. In a day when you can go order a beautiful GT4 or Spyder to spec - it's jumped the shark. I never thought I'd see the day where the new Boxster / Cayman were more desirable models than a new 911 but in my opinion we're there.
The days of ragging on McLaren about their horrendous depreciation may not be over yet but it sure looks like Porsche is working hard at trying to join them.
In fairness, Panamera buyers are already used to heavy depreciation. Why would buyers of the mini version expect any different?
#88
Chris Harris was less than thrilled about the 992. He was so bored and lifeless in his review. It looked forced. Watch his review of any 991 with an NA engine then watch his 992 review. He goes from this to this Other reviewers gave negative remarks about the 991.2 GTS engine but they praise the exact same engine in the 992. The reviews were bought by Porsche, that's obvious.
I won't sing and praise a Corvette because I do agree it's a cheaply made car with crappy fit/finish but the 992 is a total let down.
I won't sing and praise a Corvette because I do agree it's a cheaply made car with crappy fit/finish but the 992 is a total let down.
#89
@subshooter , there is a Coupe version of the Panamera coming.
BMW even calls their X6 SUV a coupe. It's getting a bit ridiculous.