When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
FWIW the average over MSRP for the 992.2 GT3 in Feb (on BAT) was a little over $50k. The seller was probably right to wait and try again later... who knows. OTOH if the economy takes a dive we could be looking at MSRP again. But it will have to be bad enough to rock the upper part of the K.
You're welcome. But who the hell is talking to you???
If you’re trying to subtly refer to what I posted initially today, I cleared stated that it’s just my two cents. I also clearly stated that I’m talking about ADM. I totally understand that dealerships post their offerings on Porsche Finder even after a car is accounted for but still, I bet a majority of those 171 cars are available. We are all simply speculating and this is just a discussion. There is no need to reply with a condescending tone or like you seem to know more than others, you don’t. At this point, it can only be half baked because I don’t have access to the data to tell me what Porsche dealerships sold their cars for. Unless you do…..
Last edited by abhi89vt; Mar 12, 2026 at 10:15 PM.
If you’re trying to subtly refer to what I posted initially today, I cleared stated that it’s just my two cents. I also clearly stated that I’m talking about ADM. I totally understand that dealerships post their offerings on Porsche Finder even after a car is accounted for but still, I bet a majority of those 171 cars are available. We are all simply speculating and this is just a discussion. There is no need to reply with a condescending tone or like you seem to know more than others, you don’t. At this point, it can only be half baked because I don’t have access to the data to tell me what Porsche dealerships sold their cars for. Unless you do…..
BaT annual sales are in the $billions. Maybe you are right and it's all just a hoax.
First Brands Group supposedly does over $5 billion, and look how that turned out.
Obviously a lot of people look at BaT and say, that’s the market, but that’s also why it’s ripe for shenanigans when it’s used for a reference to pump up XYZ car value.
I was wondering about BAT. A lot of folks on here use it like the bible. I was thinking...I wonder if its real. So I built a custom app that scraped all the data from GT cars going back to March 2022. The nice thing is with cars...VINs don't lie. It is a unique 17-digit serial number we can trace throughout the system. Once I got the vins I ran them through a lot of different sites like Cars.com, CarGurus, AutoTrader, iSeeCars, Porsche Finder, and a bunch of dealer inventory sites to see where these cars actually ended up.
TLDR: franchise dealers are on both sides of these BaT sales. They give allocations to independents, the independents sell on BaT, and then franchise dealers buy the cars back and CPO them. BaT is the laundromat in the middle that turns dealer-to-dealer flips into "market comps." I always assumed flippers were a separate cohort of folks. They aren't. And I am not saying all porsche dealers are in on this but quite a few are. I am sorry this post got long. I've been researching this thing for weeks. That's where I've been if you're wondering.
People keep citing BaT for 992.2 pricing. There are only three non-RS 992.2 GT3 sales on BaT — two Tourings and one base GT3. Two are dealer flips. The only real one was $310k. Both dealer-listed Tourings sold to accounts less than seven months old. The $384k buyer created his account the same month he bought the car, titled it in Connecticut — about 90 miles from the franchise that allocated it — and the CARFAX still shows 14 miles as of three months after purchase. Not a single mile added. Oh did I mention I pulled several carfaxes? I did. The BAT comp listings did not pass the smell test. And others have talked to me and said the same.
WHERE THE SELL SIDE CARS COME FROM
47% of 130 sales from BAT are from dealers, but here's the thing: there's not a single Porsche franchise dealer selling on BaT in this entire dataset. Every seller is an independent. These are independent dealer principals who are getting GT3 allocations from Porsche franchise dealers and listing them on BaT.
WOB is a CA retail dealership and consignment operation in Thousand Oaks run by Robert Dietz. Their website (wobcars.com) openly advertises what they do: "You can count on us to have your car sold at a premium price." They call themselves "the largest curator of cars" on BaT, say they sell 50+ vehicles a month on the platform, and work on commission that scales with the value of the car. They even brag about setting the record for the highest-selling 992 GT3 Touring on BaT. This is all on their website.
[CORRECTION — WOB responded publicly with their full sales list and I had their numbers wrong. I had them at 12 GT3s and $4.1M. The correct figures are 17 sold and 22 listed, approximately $5.15M in completed sales. That's about 8% of all 992 GT3 BaT volume by dollar — still the single largest operator in the dataset by a wide margin, but I overstated the concentration. Correcting the record.]
On buyer identification, WOB also responded car by car with CARFAXes. Here's where I was right and where I was wrong. Confirmed dealers: Freddy_308 = Eurocars OC (WOB confirmed this), SRNYC = dealer (WOB confirmed this). WOB also confirmed BizarreDakar as a dealer they've done business with. That's approximately $570k in confirmed dealer sales — about 11% of their sold volume — not the 21% I originally claimed. Several accounts I flagged as dealer-linked — JimDiaz, Petrus2000, speedman9000, Ksw, Andrew109 — WOB provided CARFAXes showing private buyers. Some of those cars were subsequently resold consumer-to-consumer. I got those wrong and I'm correcting it.
What I got right on WOB: Freddy_308 is Eurocars OC. WOB is the highest-volume independent GT3 consignment operation on BaT. And the two comps that anchor 992 GT3 pricing — $384k and $405k — both ran through WOB. More on those below.
1600veloce is an official BaT listing partner out of North Salem, NY. Four GT3 sales. North Salem is about 30 minutes from New Country Porsche of Greenwich, CT — the franchise that PDI'd the $346k 992.2 Touring. The CARFAX on that car shows the first owner titled it in Greenwich, same town as the franchise. 1600veloce listed it on BaT from right across the state line. Same franchise-next-to-consigner geography as WOB and Rusnak in Thousand Oaks.
Silverarrowcarsltd is an exotic dealer in Beverly Hills. Three sales.
And then there's rennster. I looked this guy up. His name is Sascha. His website (rennster.com) lays out his whole career. He was Director of Customer Experience and VIP Sales at Beverly Hills Porsche from 2016 to 2021. He managed VIP client relationships and the acquisition process at the #1 Porsche dealer in the country for new car sales. He left the franchise in 2021 and now operates as an independent broker, selling GT3s on BaT under his own name. Same service, same clients, no franchise oversight. I don't think his contact list changed when his title did.
These cars are showing up at WOB and 1600veloce with anywhere from 14 to a few thousand miles. The lowest-mile ones were never really driven. The independent principals got the allocations from the franchise, titled the cars, and listed them on BaT. By the time it shows up on BaT the franchise name is nowhere near the listing.
And the dealer premium tells you this isn't random. On 992.1 Tourings, dealers averaged $298k versus $276k for private party sellers — a $23k premium across 27 dealer sales and 35 "private sales". On 992.1 base GT3s, dealers averaged $260k versus $252k from consumers — about $8k more. The Touring gap is wider because the product mix was rarer in the 992.1 generation and dealers knew it. Porsche made fewer Tourings relative to base GT3s in the 992.1 run, and the consignment guys knew what they had. That kind of consistency across 60+ Touring transactions doesn't happen by accident. The sell side is coordinated.
WHO'S BUYING THESE CARS
You can reverse engineer data from BaT I got a lot of data. I got buyer info on 130 sales and a few accounts were hard to miss.
"Freddy_308" bought five GT3s for $1.56M total. His account was created in November 2025, so it was between zero and three months old for every purchase. Five GT cars in 103 days. I tracked all five VINs. Every single one ended up at Eurocars OC in Costa Mesa:
* 2022 GT3 Touring (VIN ...70244): BaT $276,500 → Eurocars OC $299,999
* 2022 GT3 (VIN ...70709): BaT $243,000 → Eurocars OC $284,999
* 2025 GT3 RS (VIN ...78410): BaT $390,000 → Eurocars OC $424,999
* 2024 GT3 RS (VIN ...73311): BaT $385,000 → Eurocars OC $429,999
* 2022 GT3 Touring (VIN ...70158): BaT $266,000 → Eurocars OC $304,999
Five for five. $1.56M in. $1.74M asking. $184k in markups. That's a dealer using BaT to source specific GT3s and flip them on a lot. I pulled the CARFAX on VIN ...70709 — EuroCar Costa Mesa appears by name, offering the car for sale one day after the BaT auction closed. (It might have already been on the lot). That car has since sold to a consumer in Chatsworth — six owners, 5,268 miles, including a Montana LLC title along the way. The other four were on the Eurocars OC lot as of the time I searched.
"Psoomekh" bought three GT3 RS for $1.21M. All three from dealers. I found one of them (VIN ...78209, bought from rennster for $405,888) at Ryan Friedman Motor Cars in Glen Cove, NY for $429,995. The CARFAX on that car shows it passed through EuroCar in Costa Mesa at one point in its history — the same dealer where Freddy_308's five cars ended up. Two different BaT buyer accounts, same dealer showing up in both.
"BizarreDakar" bought three cars for $987k — a GT3 RS and two GT3 Tourings. All from dealers.
When I went through 130 sales and flagged both sides for dealer accounts and used machine modeling: 73% of BaT GT3 transactions had a dealer or dealer-linked account on at least one side. Almost a third were dealer-to-dealer with no consumer involved at all. Only 27% looked like two actual people trading a car. And look dealers are allowed to sell cars on BAT. But when you register as a consumer and listing a GT3 when you're really a dealer...
ALLOCATION WASHING
Franchise dealers can't flip GT3 allocations on BaT obviously. Its an auction house. Porsche AG watches for that and will pull future allocations if they catch you. So instead the car goes sideways — the franchise sells it to someone, that person or entity titles it, and then a consignment guy like WOB lists it on BaT. By the time you see it on the platform there's no franchise name anywhere near it.
I pulled CARFAXes on seven VINs to see what's actually happening between the franchise and BaT. Six of them had a corporate entity, a commercial title, a fleet registration, or a Montana LLC in there somewhere. One was clean.
Here's the $384k Touring. Porsche Huntington did the PDI on Long Island on July 17th. On August 4th, Huntington sold the car. Three days later, a corporate entity in Irvington, NJ titled it at 13 miles. One week after that, West Coast Exotic Cars in California listed it in their system. WOB ran the BaT auction. JimDiaz bought it on a same-month account for $384k and titled it in Gales Ferry, Connecticut — about 90 miles from Huntington. 14 miles on the odometer. Five entities touched this car and it gained one mile. I don't think it ever left the northeast. West Coast Exotic Cars is in California. The car isn't. They're on the paperwork so that when you look up the BaT listing, you see WOB in Thousand Oaks selling to JimDiaz. You don't see Porsche Huntington.
The $405k record Touring had two commercial owners before WOB listed it. Freddy_308's $243k GT3 had six owners and a Montana LLC title, and the CARFAX shows EuroCar Costa Mesa offering it for sale one day after the BaT hammer dropped.
COMP (COMPARABLE) WASHING
So WOB sells a 14-mile Touring to an account created that same month for $384k. BaT logs it as a completed sale, and from there that number ends up everywhere — Hagerty, Classic.com, this thread, dealer lots pricing their own GT3s off it. But we just went through the CARFAX on that car and there's no real buyer. WOB consigned it, the buyer made his account the same month he bought it, the car has 14 miles on it, and the guy titled it 90 miles from the franchise that allocated it. There was no consumer on either side of that sale. That's what I mean by comp washing — you've got a $384k "market comp" for the 992.2 Touring and neither party was a retail customer.
PORSCHE FRANCHISE DEALERS ARE BUYING THESE CARS BACK
So I started pulling up franchise dealer websites to see if any of these BaT VINs were sitting on lots. They were. These listings were active as of two weeks ago. I've been writing this for a while now.
VIN ...70914 — this one I need to correct. I said it sold on BaT for $246,500 and that Porsche Main Line tacked on $45k as CPO. WOB pointed out it was Reserve Not Met on BaT — never actually sold. The car IS sitting at Porsche Main Line CPO at $291,466, but the BaT comp I cited doesn't exist. I got that wrong and I'm pulling the claim.
South Shore is a different story. VIN ...72753 didn't go through BaT at all — I pulled the CARFAX and this car was allocated at Porsche Centre Winnipeg in Canada, got imported through Derby Line, Vermont, then titled as a corporate fleet vehicle in Little Rock, Arkansas. Thirteen days after the Arkansas title, it passed a NY inspection. Then South Shore Porsche in Freeport, NY (McGovern Auto Group) sold it as Porsche Approved CPO on October 31, 2024. Manitoba to Arkansas to Long Island. It ended up on BaT a year later and sold for $410k.
VIN ...70908 and VIN ...70526 — I also need to correct these. I had both chains running in the wrong direction. WOB provided CARFAXes showing they were buyers on those cars, not sellers into a franchise pipeline. The $307,510 BaT sale on ...70908 was real, but the downstream flow I described — Hendrick, then Cardinale/Porsche SLO — was wrong. Same on ...70526. I reconstructed those chains from public listing data and got the sequence backwards. I'm pulling the Cardinale two-VIN flow analysis.
[CORRECTION — WOB responded with documentation on both VINs and I had the order of ownership wrong. The thesis of dealers moving through intermediary accounts on BaT holds on the data that does check out — Freddy_308 being the most documented example — but I overstated the franchise CPO buyback evidence by including two chains I got backwards. Correcting the record.]
None of these franchise dealers bought on BaT under their own name. They all used intermediaries. If it's a straightforward inventory purchase, put your name on it. They didn't. They're selling these cars as Porsche Approved CPO at prices that started at MSRP, got marked up through BaT, and got marked up again on the franchise lot.
Some of these names should ring a bell on this forum. Porsche South Shore has a "BEWARE OF SOUTH SHORE PORSCHE" thread right here on Rennlist (https://rennlist.com/forums/east-us-...e-porsche.html) — complaints about outsourcing service work to non-Porsche shops and a service manager posting customer information on forums. Porsche Main Line has a 15-page thread about allocation games on a GT2 RS (https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...n-line-15.html). These are multi-franchise groups — Hendrick is one of the largest dealer groups in the country, McGovern runs multiple Porsche locations, Cardinale has 21 dealerships, RDS Automotive runs Main Line. They have the infrastructure to move cars between lots and source through intermediaries without anyone connecting the dots.
THE ADM
Follow the money. A Porsche franchise gets a GT3 at MSRP — base around $255K, typically $275-295k as equipped. An independent principal gets the allocation from the franchise, lists it on BaT, and it sells for $384k. That's over MSRP captured through BaT depending on spec. The ADM never showed up on a window sticker.
BaT is doing two jobs for these dealers. It's setting the comps — when WOB sells a Touring for $384k or $405k, Hagerty indexes it, Classic.com tracks it, Rennlist cites it, and every dealer lot in the country uses it to justify what they charge. The high comp makes every GT3 priced below it look like a fair deal.
And it's sourcing the inventory. Freddy_308 paid $266-277k on BaT for Tourings that Eurocars OC listed at $300-305k — that's documented. The franchise dealers are buying through intermediary accounts at one price and retailing as CPO at another, and the spread is justified by the comps their own network created on the sell side.
I already covered what the CARFAXes show in the allocation washing section. The two comps that anchor GT3 pricing on BaT ($384k) and ($405k) both came from corporate or commercial entities, not enthusiasts selling cars they drove. The $405k car was serviced at Beverly Hills Porsche before being listed by WOB. That's the same dealership where rennster spent five years running VIP sales. And look, corporate entities are OK - a lot of you use Montana for registration (or used to), but it's all about the timing of how these things happen, and the carfax confirms what a lot of us suspected. Timing matters.
WHAT THIS ACTUALLY IS
This isn't speculation. I have the VINs, the carfaxes, the BaT transaction data, and the dealer lot listings. Rennster managed VIP sales at Beverly Hills Porsche and now sells those same cars on BaT "independently". All five of Freddy_308's purchases went through Eurocars OC with $184k in combined markups. Three Porsche franchise dealers are holding BaT GT3 VINs as CPO inventory, and South Shore sourced a fourth through the same kind of corporate fleet routing. 73% of these transactions had a dealer-linked account involved.
I made specific errors in this post and I've corrected them above. WOB responded publicly with documentation, and where their data contradicted mine I've updated the record. I got their total sales count wrong, the dollar volume wrong, and two VIN chains backwards. Those corrections are in the post.
What I didn't get wrong: the mechanism. WOB's own response confirmed it. Their words: "you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT that some dealers have falsely inflated markets. There are several very large dealers whose cars are on a carousel with their friends where they trade cancer for AIDS, make sure they take no loss on the books, send it to OVE, refloor it and start all over. There are certainly fake sales." That's from the operator who represents 8% of all 992 GT3 BaT volume. They're not describing a theory. They're describing what they watch happen.
The markup didn't go away. It went underground. This isn't an ADM, an Additional Dealer Markup you see on a window sticker. This is a DMM, a Dealer Manufactured Markup, built through a controlled BaT transaction and laundered into "market data." If a dealer says, "Well, the market," and if you ask or dig deeper, and the dealer says BAT, you know you got a RAT. I will state, though, I only ran Porsche GT cars - I left other brands alone, but one could speculate. Moving forward, I will not use BAT as a reference price for any Porsche GT car. The system has been scammed.
Dealers trading with each other and calling it a market is not a market....
Last edited by chicagomarketing; Mar 26, 2026 at 10:21 PM.
Reason: typos
@chicagomarketing This 100% validates what i have always felt happened. I always got annoyed searching vins after auctions just to see them pop up at some dealer. The GT3 market on BAT specifically seems to be a public facing wholesale market for dealers.
Even a semi coordinated group of accounts can absolutely re-set market comps for a subset of cars in what has become the most well known car auction site.
