So BAT didn’t try to stop you; their systems simply try to stop automation (bots). The way you wrote it sounded like you were targeted which I wanted to clarify because that is a major deal.

Does your other comment about manipulation, shenanigans, etc go in direct competition to your theory of prices crashing? If dealers are doing shady stuff to set public ceiling prices to taint all the back office pricing schemes to above the true market then wouldn’t that keep prices from crashing?

I just don’t trust any car dealer to ever do anything in the best interest of the consumer. Ever. Regardless of buying history. I trust that they will act in their best interest forever which may mean games, shenanigans, etc forever.

 

BAT manipulation ... how does that relate to the GT3 market "crashing"?

BAT manipulation, real or not, relevant or not, is the classic red herring when trying to make the case for the GT3 market "crashing" ...

 

Agree, and is what I stated earlier.

And there is more of this (acting in their best interest to maximize profits - both by Porsche and dealers) from the 991 to 992 generations.

Buyer beware - always.

 

At the very least I could complain that the franchise dealer is selling to an independent dealer across the street that keeps putting the cars on auction rather than a regular customer that wants to keep the car and probably drive it. Is that because the independent dealer is paying the most ADM? I doubt it, because then there's not enough upside when they put it up for auction.

 

^

The Independent Dealer could be giving a "kickback" to the Sales Manager? There are as many shenanigans as there are creative ideas.

 

That’s exactly why they have been doing this - to prevent prices from crashing (or rather, decreasing) through a smoke and mirrors show on BaT. This works as long as the buying public believes it. But now, we have seen evidence that what’s on BaT may not be accurate.

Ultimately however, what sets the price from high valuation to “crashing” is consumer spending (not BaT or any other data). If buyers stop spending, cars don’t get sold, prices come down and vice versa. Look what happened to the GT4 RS market

 

There are three parts to this. One is the BaT game some dealers are playing. The second is production volumes. The third is Euro 7 fearmongering. All three are creating pressure for prices to fall.

The BAT piece is about comps. Dealers need a reference price to justify their ask, and BAT is where that gets manufactured. Route a car through a friendly consignment operator, get a clean-looking result, now you have an anchor. That's the game. I've documented it in this thread extensively.

None of that changes how many 992.2s are hitting the ground though. Porsche is delivering to North America at about 61% higher monthly volume than the 992.1. More cars, same pool of buyers at a higher price point. You can't consignment your way out of a supply problem. The dealers running the BaT game didn't see that coming. Oops.

The Euro 7 angle is the newest pressure point. Dealers are telling buyers that GT3 production is ending — implying now or never. What they're not telling you is that Euro 7 emissions standards apply to Europe. Porsche can still import the naturally aspirated engine to North America under current regulations. Porsche hasn't made any public statement that NA production is ending. Dealers are filling that silence with urgency that benefits exactly one party.

When carrying costs start hurting, someone blinks. That's when the ceiling cracks and the buyer who waited is the one sitting across the table with options.

 

hi Oak, I didn’t mean to focus my frustration on you in anyway so my apologies if it came out that way. My frustration is purely with the game that is being played. I have read and agree with the above post. My personal sense is that these cars are in general worth more than msrp and respect those who already own and enjoy their cars. They are truly wonderful machines and rolling art. Enjoy your ride.

 

Of the three I think the only one that matters is production numbers. Right now we know for a fact the 992.2 GT3 numbers are much higher than previous. However, we also know for a fact that 992.1 was higher than 991.2 and 991.2 to 991.1, etc and that through all these iterations the prices have risen. I would like to think the fine smart folks at PAG know what they are doing but they’ve proven already that they don’t with their all in EV blunder.

The second item, the BaT/dealer shenanigans are something used to keep prices higher and not lower. Dealers are creative and they’ll keep playing games to maintain their margins, jobs and relevance. They are a big force and this isn’t a past time hobby for them.

Finally the third item, Euro 7 regs doesn’t mean that P will produce NA cars for the USA market. It is possible the politicians or enforcers will interpret it to mean no NA out of European land and P is not going to build a plant on another country to satisfy our American wants. We just don’t know how this will play out for more or less NA engines in the future.
I agree. The dealers have a lot of common interests but if a handful of the dealers break the unwrittten agreement because of major outside forces at them then cracks will form. If we know anything about dealers is that they always look out for themselves. The one thing though is that no single dealer receives a substantial number of allocations so they may be able to stay under the radar not playing the game everyone else is playing should their cracks start forming.

This is a fun thought experiment but at the end of the day is still major speculation and just theories in my opinion. I totally understand and respect your stance and it certainly has a lot of merit but I believe opposite theories are also very plausible and the song keeps playing. The future is unknown and there is an unlimited amount of variables at play that change every single day.

 

The last 6 speed BAT auction for 992.2 went RNM at $19k over msrp.

 

No worries, thank you! I think every legitimate consumer on this forum can all agree we don’t want to pay an ADM. The true GT3 Market is not yet an MSRP market primarily due to supply/demand. Apparently to some people the car isn’t even worth MSRP, to others the car is worth $50,000 over sticker. Different people are willing to pay different amounts of money for the car. The market is trying to figure out exactly where the ADM should be in order to level out supply & demand, and as consumers we need to be aware that businesses are actively trying to keep the perception of market price higher than it really is.

 

And while some try to map out future valuations based on supply and dealer games, the elephant in the room is the war with Iran.
It's not because gas prices are going to deter purchases of an inefficient sportscar.
It's because oil supply and the role of the US dollar are about to do a number on the US and ROW.
I've been searching for a 7.2 RS to replace my 7.2 GT3 and I'm now thinking of putting my plans on wait-and-see mode.
For someone who doesn't care about value retention to be thinking this way, it's not good...

 

this. So much this.

 

no ? People would the buy the cars…. If you artificially list it for cheaper than it’s worth people will just…. buy the car?

 

it’s relevant when folks point to BAT auction results as the market being xyz. These are clearly rigged auctions which are basically artificially affecting the market.