GT3 992.2 Prices crashing? MSRP Coming?
Rennlist Member
Joined: Nov 2024
Posts: 146
Likes: 103
From: Maryland
Chicagomarketing, I’m sorry to say this, but somebody has to say it.
Your investigation looking car listing searches, Carfax pulls, bat analysis is just worthless. Just like your worthless data set. Its all speculative news reporter wording. You are blaming bunch of hard working quality sellers and buyers of bat, and dealers. Those guys work and put their time into a job. They do a very high quality job. I will never buy a car from wob from bat, however don’t you see the quality of representation? You can type with your AI buddy lots of messages here, but it’s not right to blame anyone for selling cars at a public auction, especially when done right. In one message you say there is only 3 992.2 s sold on bat, lets not take it as a reference, on another huge paragraph you do bat analysis
I dont get the complaining here. If you guys all selling your own home you want to get 50 or 150 over asking offers right? And you sell to the highest and cleanest buyer. Same goes with cars. There is a higher demand for this model and that’s what they do. Why no one is talking about how much same dealer struggles to move the taycan?
adms can to low, can disappear too, but you have always been speculative since this topic started. but I just need to say it outloud as you started accusing bunch of other people for shady transactions. They do their business. There could be couple of transactions of the nature you say, but most of them are real. That’s the market. That’s the supply and demand. Some people buy and sell these things like a watch they never wear.
Your investigation looking car listing searches, Carfax pulls, bat analysis is just worthless. Just like your worthless data set. Its all speculative news reporter wording. You are blaming bunch of hard working quality sellers and buyers of bat, and dealers. Those guys work and put their time into a job. They do a very high quality job. I will never buy a car from wob from bat, however don’t you see the quality of representation? You can type with your AI buddy lots of messages here, but it’s not right to blame anyone for selling cars at a public auction, especially when done right. In one message you say there is only 3 992.2 s sold on bat, lets not take it as a reference, on another huge paragraph you do bat analysis
I dont get the complaining here. If you guys all selling your own home you want to get 50 or 150 over asking offers right? And you sell to the highest and cleanest buyer. Same goes with cars. There is a higher demand for this model and that’s what they do. Why no one is talking about how much same dealer struggles to move the taycan?
adms can to low, can disappear too, but you have always been speculative since this topic started. but I just need to say it outloud as you started accusing bunch of other people for shady transactions. They do their business. There could be couple of transactions of the nature you say, but most of them are real. That’s the market. That’s the supply and demand. Some people buy and sell these things like a watch they never wear.
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 175
Likes: 225
Chicagomarketing, I’m sorry to say this, but somebody has to say it.
Your investigation looking car listing searches, Carfax pulls, bat analysis is just worthless. Just like your worthless data set. Its all speculative news reporter wording. You are blaming bunch of hard working quality sellers and buyers of bat, and dealers. Those guys work and put their time into a job. They do a very high quality job. I will never buy a car from wob from bat, however don’t you see the quality of representation? You can type with your AI buddy lots of messages here, but it’s not right to blame anyone for selling cars at a public auction, especially when done right. In one message you say there is only 3 992.2 s sold on bat, lets not take it as a reference, on another huge paragraph you do bat analysis
I dont get the complaining here. If you guys all selling your own home you want to get 50 or 150 over asking offers right? And you sell to the highest and cleanest buyer. Same goes with cars. There is a higher demand for this model and that’s what they do. Why no one is talking about how much same dealer struggles to move the taycan?
adms can to low, can disappear too, but you have always been speculative since this topic started. but I just need to say it outloud as you started accusing bunch of other people for shady transactions. They do their business. There could be couple of transactions of the nature you say, but most of them are real. That’s the market. That’s the supply and demand. Some people buy and sell these things like a watch they never wear.
Your investigation looking car listing searches, Carfax pulls, bat analysis is just worthless. Just like your worthless data set. Its all speculative news reporter wording. You are blaming bunch of hard working quality sellers and buyers of bat, and dealers. Those guys work and put their time into a job. They do a very high quality job. I will never buy a car from wob from bat, however don’t you see the quality of representation? You can type with your AI buddy lots of messages here, but it’s not right to blame anyone for selling cars at a public auction, especially when done right. In one message you say there is only 3 992.2 s sold on bat, lets not take it as a reference, on another huge paragraph you do bat analysis
I dont get the complaining here. If you guys all selling your own home you want to get 50 or 150 over asking offers right? And you sell to the highest and cleanest buyer. Same goes with cars. There is a higher demand for this model and that’s what they do. Why no one is talking about how much same dealer struggles to move the taycan?
adms can to low, can disappear too, but you have always been speculative since this topic started. but I just need to say it outloud as you started accusing bunch of other people for shady transactions. They do their business. There could be couple of transactions of the nature you say, but most of them are real. That’s the market. That’s the supply and demand. Some people buy and sell these things like a watch they never wear.
its not supply and demand when it’s fake. These are fake transactions basically. You claim the whole process is transparent yet a lot of dealers don’t publicly advertise adm.
true transparency would be there is a gt3 sitting on the lot, with the adm listed. If you pay the price they want or near it, you buy the car today. There wouldn’t be the bs PPF or maintenance plan required, watches etc , buying two macans etc
Rennlist Member
Joined: Nov 2024
Posts: 146
Likes: 103
From: Maryland
Get out of here, take a lap
its not supply and demand when it’s fake. These are fake transactions basically. You claim the whole process is transparent yet a lot of dealers don’t publicly advertise adm.
true transparency would be there is a gt3 sitting on the lot, with the adm listed. If you pay the price they want or near it, you buy the car today. There wouldn’t be the bs PPF or maintenance plan required, watches etc , buying two macans etc
its not supply and demand when it’s fake. These are fake transactions basically. You claim the whole process is transparent yet a lot of dealers don’t publicly advertise adm.
true transparency would be there is a gt3 sitting on the lot, with the adm listed. If you pay the price they want or near it, you buy the car today. There wouldn’t be the bs PPF or maintenance plan required, watches etc , buying two macans etc
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 114
Likes: 124
Chicagomarketing, I’m sorry to say this, but somebody has to say it.
Your investigation looking car listing searches, Carfax pulls, bat analysis is just worthless. Just like your worthless data set. Its all speculative news reporter wording. You are blaming bunch of hard working quality sellers and buyers of bat, and dealers. Those guys work and put their time into a job. They do a very high quality job. I will never buy a car from wob from bat, however don’t you see the quality of representation? You can type with your AI buddy lots of messages here, but it’s not right to blame anyone for selling cars at a public auction, especially when done right. In one message you say there is only 3 992.2 s sold on bat, lets not take it as a reference, on another huge paragraph you do bat analysis
I dont get the complaining here. If you guys all selling your own home you want to get 50 or 150 over asking offers right? And you sell to the highest and cleanest buyer. Same goes with cars. There is a higher demand for this model and that’s what they do. Why no one is talking about how much same dealer struggles to move the taycan?
adms can to low, can disappear too, but you have always been speculative since this topic started. but I just need to say it outloud as you started accusing bunch of other people for shady transactions. They do their business. There could be couple of transactions of the nature you say, but most of them are real. That’s the market. That’s the supply and demand. Some people buy and sell these things like a watch they never wear.
Your investigation looking car listing searches, Carfax pulls, bat analysis is just worthless. Just like your worthless data set. Its all speculative news reporter wording. You are blaming bunch of hard working quality sellers and buyers of bat, and dealers. Those guys work and put their time into a job. They do a very high quality job. I will never buy a car from wob from bat, however don’t you see the quality of representation? You can type with your AI buddy lots of messages here, but it’s not right to blame anyone for selling cars at a public auction, especially when done right. In one message you say there is only 3 992.2 s sold on bat, lets not take it as a reference, on another huge paragraph you do bat analysis
I dont get the complaining here. If you guys all selling your own home you want to get 50 or 150 over asking offers right? And you sell to the highest and cleanest buyer. Same goes with cars. There is a higher demand for this model and that’s what they do. Why no one is talking about how much same dealer struggles to move the taycan?
adms can to low, can disappear too, but you have always been speculative since this topic started. but I just need to say it outloud as you started accusing bunch of other people for shady transactions. They do their business. There could be couple of transactions of the nature you say, but most of them are real. That’s the market. That’s the supply and demand. Some people buy and sell these things like a watch they never wear.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 452
Likes: 351
From: USA
I think most of us assumed that some of the transactions on BAT are dealer to dealer, and it’s beneficial for all parties SELLING GT3’s to keep the value of them as high as possible. Especially considering this platform is one of the most widely used data sources to view actual sales data (fabricated or not). Impressive research this time @chicagomarketing. I’m just not really that shocked that many of these transactions happened the way you described.
What happens to the value of these cars if the N.A. engine goes away? Has there been any new info on what’s going to happen in 2027 with the production of this N.A. engine? It’s possible some of these dealerships are keeping ADM high and holding onto these cars in hopes of the discontinuation of that engine.
What happens to the value of these cars if the N.A. engine goes away? Has there been any new info on what’s going to happen in 2027 with the production of this N.A. engine? It’s possible some of these dealerships are keeping ADM high and holding onto these cars in hopes of the discontinuation of that engine.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 5,682
Likes: 3,005
The elephant in the room is even here in this forum (and this thread) there are “influencers” or more like “manipulators” posing as us posting here to be in alignment with manipulation that goes on. Dealers have sales people or other “social media” people who have a network who appear here.
There is a special place in hell for Porsche sales people (dealers, BAT, resellers, etc).
There is a special place in hell for Porsche sales people (dealers, BAT, resellers, etc).
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 1,309
Likes: 703
From: SLC, UT
@chicagomarketing I’ve thought a lot about your analysis. After reading your post, I felt dirty. A day later I still feel dirty. It seems like some dealers are attempting to fix prices. BAT is often used as one way to see what cars are worth and can help set the market. This thing with the gt3 seems like a huge scam.
given: gt3 hot commodity
the play: dealer has a certain number of allocations but isn’t really allowed to charge adm or at least it’s frowned upon. So they figure out a way to juice profits. They sell to an independent dealer or a network of dealers who in turn sell for “market value” to the general public.
the grift: a few cars get put up on bat. That helps set the “value”. Some go directly to dealers after the sale who try and squeeze more profit. Some go to the public. Either way a floor is set on pricing and people deduce this is the market price.
the kickback: the dealer like in Vegas always wins. In this case, the original selling dealer sells to independent and for that privilege, the Indy kicks back a predetermined cash amount to the selling dealer. For you guys who are into watches, this is the same play that happens with Rolex Daytonas and Patek Philippe nautiluses. I would be shocked if a single red cent gets reported as taxable income.
the losers: us. Truly. We car enthusiasts pay silly money for our obsession and for good reason. We love all things cars and many of us have bent into pretzels to get whatever car we are after. In this case we end up paying even more money for a car we love due to the quality learing center of dealer malice.
am I a conspiracy theorist? Maybe. But the documented trail of dodgy ownership still leaves me disgusted. Just my 2c
given: gt3 hot commodity
the play: dealer has a certain number of allocations but isn’t really allowed to charge adm or at least it’s frowned upon. So they figure out a way to juice profits. They sell to an independent dealer or a network of dealers who in turn sell for “market value” to the general public.
the grift: a few cars get put up on bat. That helps set the “value”. Some go directly to dealers after the sale who try and squeeze more profit. Some go to the public. Either way a floor is set on pricing and people deduce this is the market price.
the kickback: the dealer like in Vegas always wins. In this case, the original selling dealer sells to independent and for that privilege, the Indy kicks back a predetermined cash amount to the selling dealer. For you guys who are into watches, this is the same play that happens with Rolex Daytonas and Patek Philippe nautiluses. I would be shocked if a single red cent gets reported as taxable income.
the losers: us. Truly. We car enthusiasts pay silly money for our obsession and for good reason. We love all things cars and many of us have bent into pretzels to get whatever car we are after. In this case we end up paying even more money for a car we love due to the quality learing center of dealer malice.
am I a conspiracy theorist? Maybe. But the documented trail of dodgy ownership still leaves me disgusted. Just my 2c
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,283
Likes: 428
From: Colorado Springs
The elephant in the room is even here in this forum (and this thread) there are “influencers” or more like “manipulators” posing as us posting here to be in alignment with manipulation that goes on. Dealers have sales people or other “social media” people who have a network who appear here.
There is a special place in hell for Porsche sales people (dealers, BAT, resellers, etc).
There is a special place in hell for Porsche sales people (dealers, BAT, resellers, etc).
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 1,309
Likes: 703
From: SLC, UT
Get out of here, take a lap
its not supply and demand when it’s fake. These are fake transactions basically. You claim the whole process is transparent yet a lot of dealers don’t publicly advertise adm.
true transparency would be there is a gt3 sitting on the lot, with the adm listed. If you pay the price they want or near it, you buy the car today. There wouldn’t be the bs PPF or maintenance plan required, watches etc , buying two macans etc
its not supply and demand when it’s fake. These are fake transactions basically. You claim the whole process is transparent yet a lot of dealers don’t publicly advertise adm.
true transparency would be there is a gt3 sitting on the lot, with the adm listed. If you pay the price they want or near it, you buy the car today. There wouldn’t be the bs PPF or maintenance plan required, watches etc , buying two macans etc
in business lots of people selling the same product sell back and forth to each other.
also, remember, money doubles every ten years (the cost of things, inflation, buying power variances, etc) so that $100K 997 GT3 back in 2007, today, would be right about (if even slightly less) if you factor in inflation, etc.
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 256
Likes: 330
Chicagomarketing, I’m sorry to say this, but somebody has to say it.
Your investigation looking car listing searches, Carfax pulls, bat analysis is just worthless. Just like your worthless data set. Its all speculative news reporter wording. You are blaming bunch of hard working quality sellers and buyers of bat, and dealers. Those guys work and put their time into a job. They do a very high quality job. I will never buy a car from wob from bat, however don’t you see the quality of representation? You can type with your AI buddy lots of messages here, but it’s not right to blame anyone for selling cars at a public auction, especially when done right. In one message you say there is only 3 992.2 s sold on bat, lets not take it as a reference, on another huge paragraph you do bat analysis
I dont get the complaining here. If you guys all selling your own home you want to get 50 or 150 over asking offers right? And you sell to the highest and cleanest buyer. Same goes with cars. There is a higher demand for this model and that’s what they do. Why no one is talking about how much same dealer struggles to move the taycan?
adms can to low, can disappear too, but you have always been speculative since this topic started. but I just need to say it outloud as you started accusing bunch of other people for shady transactions. They do their business. There could be couple of transactions of the nature you say, but most of them are real. That’s the market. That’s the supply and demand. Some people buy and sell these things like a watch they never wear.
Your investigation looking car listing searches, Carfax pulls, bat analysis is just worthless. Just like your worthless data set. Its all speculative news reporter wording. You are blaming bunch of hard working quality sellers and buyers of bat, and dealers. Those guys work and put their time into a job. They do a very high quality job. I will never buy a car from wob from bat, however don’t you see the quality of representation? You can type with your AI buddy lots of messages here, but it’s not right to blame anyone for selling cars at a public auction, especially when done right. In one message you say there is only 3 992.2 s sold on bat, lets not take it as a reference, on another huge paragraph you do bat analysis
I dont get the complaining here. If you guys all selling your own home you want to get 50 or 150 over asking offers right? And you sell to the highest and cleanest buyer. Same goes with cars. There is a higher demand for this model and that’s what they do. Why no one is talking about how much same dealer struggles to move the taycan?
adms can to low, can disappear too, but you have always been speculative since this topic started. but I just need to say it outloud as you started accusing bunch of other people for shady transactions. They do their business. There could be couple of transactions of the nature you say, but most of them are real. That’s the market. That’s the supply and demand. Some people buy and sell these things like a watch they never wear.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,283
Likes: 428
From: Colorado Springs
Thanks Chicagomarketing for the deep dive. Certainly interesting and entertaining.
Dealers/sellers trying to maximize profit. Shenanigans. Unethical. Illegal. Shocking…not….
But having watched the GT3 market since 2014, the 992.2 does seem different in that the massive MSRP increases and dealers having on the ground or incoming available inventory (and a lot of that inventory boring dealer specs in a time when that’s not what a lot of buyers want). And dealers have gotten used to, just like the mothership Porsche, to a large part of their stores profit on the back of the GT products. It’s a bit of a house of cards.
But the cars are awesome and I bought a used 2022 (where I thought there was value and at a price I was comfortable with) and plan to keep it a long time so all of this is just entertainment.
Dealers/sellers trying to maximize profit. Shenanigans. Unethical. Illegal. Shocking…not….
But having watched the GT3 market since 2014, the 992.2 does seem different in that the massive MSRP increases and dealers having on the ground or incoming available inventory (and a lot of that inventory boring dealer specs in a time when that’s not what a lot of buyers want). And dealers have gotten used to, just like the mothership Porsche, to a large part of their stores profit on the back of the GT products. It’s a bit of a house of cards.
But the cars are awesome and I bought a used 2022 (where I thought there was value and at a price I was comfortable with) and plan to keep it a long time so all of this is just entertainment.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 899
From: Phoenix
Burry is not wrong. It's just market fundamentals are out the window. The market is driven by algorithms now, not P/E ratios and the like. If the market really understood anything in the AI space TSMC would have NVIDIA stock prices.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 259
Likes: 389
say you paid $500K for your home 30 years, and its tripled in value is that fake "supply and demand"? would you say ... nope, i paid $500K so tomorrow when i sell it i will post for $500K? your logic doesn't make sense. also, what is a fake transaction basically?
in business lots of people selling the same product sell back and forth to each other.
also, remember, money doubles every ten years (the cost of things, inflation, buying power variances, etc) so that $100K 997 GT3 back in 2007, today, would be right about (if even slightly less) if you factor in inflation, etc.
in business lots of people selling the same product sell back and forth to each other.
also, remember, money doubles every ten years (the cost of things, inflation, buying power variances, etc) so that $100K 997 GT3 back in 2007, today, would be right about (if even slightly less) if you factor in inflation, etc.
Another thing to understand is that a house is generally looked upon as an appreciating asset over a period of time. Cars, not so much. So as amazing as GT3s are, its value doesn't go up linearly with inflation, it goes up purely because of demand from car enthusiasts.
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 16,023
Likes: 7,767
From: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Regardless of market manipulation and lack of transparency, I think the bottom line is that we're all bidding against each other to get these cars, and the highest bidders are setting the price. Prices will be lower if people draw a line and say 'I want this car, but I'm not paying more than X for it, even though I can afford to pay more'. For me, that means I don't own S/T, 911 R, 2RS, 997.2 3RS, etc. And 992.2 GT3 is not a $300k+ car for me.
