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I've said it before, some dealers pay the ADM short term gain game and others play the long term relationship game. If I had to buy a GT car for an ADM, when I'm done with the car I'm selling it on the open market for top dollar....no way that same dealer sees my car again because I have ZERO loyalty to them (and this would include servicing the car there if I were local to the ADM dealer). The savings in ADM between the Touring and GT4RS more than paid for incoming Taycan GTS ST....my other way of showing loyalty to our dealer besides trading back the cars that I buy from them.
You’re probably right. It might be the difference between large markets and small markets. All I know is I wanted a turbo S last year and I called practically the entire country and everyone had ADMs. And that was nothing compared to GTs. Now I don’t really have a problem with it because it’s not the dealers fault that someone is willing to pay all that money above MSRP. It’s just the market. The Watch world is the same way. Fortunately, that’s at least coming down a little bit, but not to where it was. I just because there is all this market doesn’t mean I have to play. I’m just not going to do it.
The hard part is breaking into an MSRP dealers to become a good repeat customer. For me, it took a 2-for-1 $800k+ transaction years ago to propel me up in one shot about 6 years ago. Since then I've been buying non-GT cars and GT cars from them.
The hard part is breaking into an MSRP dealers to become a good repeat customer. For me, it took a 2-for-1 $800k+ transaction years ago to propel me up in one shot about 6 years ago. Since then I've been buying non-GT cars and GT cars from them.
you’re shopping at a big store that manages to balance profit maximizing and keeping key customers happy. Maybe that’s the gold standard
you’re shopping at a big store that manages to balance profit maximizing and keeping key customers happy. Maybe that’s the gold standard
if customers are happy the rest is noise
True, I've bought and traded back 5 non-GT cars with them and the incoming Taycan GTS ST is the 6th one since I started doing business with them. They do get a good bit of GT allocations because of their volume and Premier status but as an out-of-town newbie it took a big transaction for me to get on the good customer list because they've been doing business for decades with other customers before I came around. The nice thing is that the GM wants to spread the GT love and told me that other than the 918 VIPs, no gets all the GT allocations because they want to reward as many of their good customers as they can which is refreshing and nice to hear.
Last edited by usctrojanGT3; 06-13-2023 at 02:39 AM.
True, I've bought and traded back 5 non-GT cars with them and the incoming Taycan GTS ST is the 6th one since I started doing business with them. They do get a good bit of GT allocations because of their volume and Premier status but as an out-of-town newbie it took a big transaction for me to get on the good customer list because they've been doing business for decades with other customers before I came around. The nice thing is that the GM wants to spread the GT love and told me that other than the 918 VIPs, no gets all the GT allocations because they want to reward as many of their good customers as they can which is refreshing and nice to hear.
Yeah and very fair because he told me that if they gave every single GT car to the same top customers, there'd be very many new good customers who would get any future GT cars (including me starting 6 years ago). I got my 2 top choices, in PTS no less, so I'm super happy and totally fine not getting a 992.1 GT3RS (for me - 1. GT4RS, 2. Touring, and 3. GT3RS). They want to spread the wealth and make more customers happy and we all know that happy customers are good future customers.
I regret using the word morons. What I mean is that it’s just very unlikely.
If you have a house that you paid $850,000 for in 2008 and it’s now worth 1.2 million but for whatever reason because the housing market it’s going crazy during Covid and you live in Florida people want to give you $3 million (happened all the time) for it you’re going to take it. Your real estate agent is going to take it. They’re not going to tell those people offering $3 million and it’s only worth 1.2 million. Why would a dealer sell you a car for $260,000 when they can get $450,000 for it? Please don’t tell me for long-term relationships. You’d have to buy 4 more cars to even make up and break even for that one deal loss. I’m not saying it’s not happening out there. Im sure some of these cars are being sold in MSRP. I’m just saying I couldn’t find any and I bet it’s remarkably rare.
Some people seem to be very bitter about this whole thing. I just don’t understand why. I mean I’m not happy about it either but business is business. If you buy that car for $260,000 at full MSRP and then for whatever reason, you lose your job, your spouse gets sick, you have to relocate, etc. and you have to sell the car, you’re not freaking selling it for $260,000. You’re going to sell it for every last penny you can get for it. Now why is the dealer evil for doing that but you’re not?
Sorry about the morons comment. But I think you understand my point now.
I regret using the word morons. What I mean is that it’s just very unlikely.
If you have a house that you paid $850,000 for in 2008 and it’s now worth 1.2 million but for whatever reason because the housing market it’s going crazy during Covid and you live in Florida people want to give you $3 million (happened all the time) for it you’re going to take it. Your real estate agent is going to take it. They’re not going to tell those people offering $3 million and it’s only worth 1.2 million. Why would a dealer sell you a car for $260,000 when they can get $450,000 for it? Please don’t tell me for long-term relationships. You’d have to buy 4 more cars to even make up and break even for that one deal loss. I’m not saying it’s not happening out there. Im sure some of these cars are being sold in MSRP. I’m just saying I couldn’t find any and I bet it’s remarkably rare.
Some people seem to be very bitter about this whole thing. I just don’t understand why. I mean I’m not happy about it either but business is business. If you buy that car for $260,000 at full MSRP and then for whatever reason, you lose your job, your spouse gets sick, you have to relocate, etc. and you have to sell the car, you’re not freaking selling it for $260,000. You’re going to sell it for every last penny you can get for it. Now why is the dealer evil for doing that but you’re not?
Sorry about the morons comment. But I think you understand my point now.
You have to crunch the numbers.
I’ve bought 8 Porsches from my dealer since 2011, am buying the ninth this week, and the tenth will be delivered in August if it’s on schedule.
The dealer is 10 minutes from my house. I moved the servicing of my 8 Porsches to them, and they pick up and drop off the cars and give me discounts on the servicing, so that’s win-win. The competing dealer is 15 minutes from my house, and there’s a good independent shop 20 minutes from my house.
I have garage space for 11 cars, and I currently have 11 cars, so buying another car means trading one in.
I think it would be foolish for my dealer to jeopardize getting my sales, trade in, and service business by not giving me the GT cars at MSRP.
I regret using the word morons. What I mean is that it’s just very unlikely.
If you have a house that you paid $850,000 for in 2008 and it’s now worth 1.2 million but for whatever reason because the housing market it’s going crazy during Covid and you live in Florida people want to give you $3 million (happened all the time) for it you’re going to take it. Your real estate agent is going to take it. They’re not going to tell those people offering $3 million and it’s only worth 1.2 million. Why would a dealer sell you a car for $260,000 when they can get $450,000 for it? Please don’t tell me for long-term relationships. You’d have to buy 4 more cars to even make up and break even for that one deal loss. I’m not saying it’s not happening out there. Im sure some of these cars are being sold in MSRP. I’m just saying I couldn’t find any and I bet it’s remarkably rare.
Some people seem to be very bitter about this whole thing. I just don’t understand why. I mean I’m not happy about it either but business is business. If you buy that car for $260,000 at full MSRP and then for whatever reason, you lose your job, your spouse gets sick, you have to relocate, etc. and you have to sell the car, you’re not freaking selling it for $260,000. You’re going to sell it for every last penny you can get for it. Now why is the dealer evil for doing that but you’re not?
Sorry about the morons comment. But I think you understand my point now.
Your real estate analogy is not analogous to MSRP allocations for GT cars. There is not a business/dealership that receives a continuous flow of hard to get homes in which they can choose the buyers to offer them to. Real estate is more analogous to a car auction site. The market dictates the price. If you want to pay the most, you get the house/car, then you are free to do whatever you want with it after the fact.
Whether you want to believe it or not, there are many dealerships across the country that continue to treat their best and most active customers with MSRP allocations for GT cars. And the handshake agreement is that when you are done with the car, you trade it back to them for either current market price, if below MSRP, or MSRP, if market is still higher when you trade it back. The dealership is then able to sell that car for a profit, again (they still make money selling you a car at MSRP), and you get to take delivery of the next car.
Calling all of the dealerships across several states who don’t know who you are is not going to land you this type of relationship. It takes time, loyalty and many transactions.
Your real estate analogy is not analogous to MSRP allocations for GT cars. There is not a business/dealership that receives a continuous flow of hard to get homes in which they can choose the buyers to offer them to. Real estate is more analogous to a car auction site. The market dictates the price. If you want to pay the most, you get the house/car, then you are free to do whatever you want with it after the fact.
Whether you want to believe it or not, there are many dealerships across the country that continue to treat their best and most active customers with MSRP allocations for GT cars. And the handshake agreement is that when you are done with the car, you trade it back to them for either current market price, if below MSRP, or MSRP, if market is still higher when you trade it back. The dealership is then able to sell that car for a profit, again (they still make money selling you a car at MSRP), and you get to take delivery of the next car.
Calling all of the dealerships across several states who don’t know who you are is not going to land you this type of relationship. It takes time, loyalty and many transactions.
I think the notion of agreed trade in is just subjective to dealer/ client. My first allocation was a 992 Turbo S and I got putnthe front of a 2 yr waiting list because my local dealer found out I had an out of state allocation and he wanted to move in to secure a relationship. Frankly I wasn't sure if I wanted the Turbo S or not as I also have an M8 Gran Coupe that's modified and frankly it's easily one of the best and most underhyped GT cars ever. So prior to delivery of my spec'd 992 I bought another highly specd used 992 Turbo S that had only 500 miles and decided to make sure it was right.... which clearly it was.
My dealer didn't know I had bought another 992 Turbo S off the market and was thrilled to take it on trade obviously and actually paid me exactly what my spec was plus mark up towards the trade. My spec was 269 plus 20k ADM, they gave me 300 for trade. My trades MSRP was 252 and being I bought it with some mark up it was a break even for me even though I bought it with 500 miles amd traded in with 1700 miles. They ended up selling that same Turbo S for 330k. Making 30k on that trade plus the 20k ADM that was on my Spec.
Being new to the Porsche world and game of allocations I wasn't really understanding of how all this stuff worked and considering they profited $50k in just market adjustments on that 992 Turbo S deal/ Trade was a win win for them.and I.
When I was offered my PTS GT3RS spot after essentially repeatedly harassing(just kidding) my Porsche team I told them very specifically I wasn't interested in trading in my Spec Turbo S and they were 100% on board and understanding since I put alot of memories on that car cruising the full PCH and through the Mojave in late 2022 and the fact it's optioned in a way nolonger possible for Turbo S. They were more excited about this fact as they want more clients that actually use their cars and help to promote the brand and expose to younger professionals such as myself.
About 2 months after that I was then called out of the blue for the GT4RS spot I wasn't even trying to pursue and when that call happens you just don't say no. It was only a 40k adm and they flat out told me there wasn't a need to take it in order to get the 3RS, it was a matter of offering to an enthusiast first before "the list". Needless to say same thing, I didn't offer a trade and that was known prior.
So in short my dealers made essentially $100k in ADM between 3 highline and to get allocations and 1 car being traded in. In return I can pretty much get any allocation I want (within reason of course) and the sky's the limits moving forward. The best thing is even though I hate watches my dealer gives me the Vin matching Porsche Design watch in each deal and that's something I can actually appreciate since they have meaning to them rather than an obscure chunk of metal on my wrist that tells me the same thing my phone screen does tucked in my pocket.
On the flip side of the equation.....
At a Porsche event locally I met a guy that had bought 11 cars prior from same dealer and had been dead to rights hunting for a GT3 spot. He was understandably perturbed when I started chatting with him on builds and such and come to find out he was one that never gave the dealership reoccurring trades on any of those cars.
Just goes to show, the volume of cars bought means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING rather than how that dealer sees you as a long term client.
I feel as long as you keep open dialog with your dealer and don't buy the cars to be jewelry then things are smooth when it comes to allocations.
This was around Point Reyes on the way to PCH heading in from Napa. Just pure pixels and no edits. Hard to let go of the car with a story.
Last edited by Justaroofer; 06-13-2023 at 11:08 AM.
I think the notion of agreed trade in is just subjective to dealer/ client. My first allocation was a 992 Turbo S and I got putnthe front of a 2 yr waiting list because my local dealer found out I had an out of state allocation and he wanted to move in to secure a relationship. Frankly I wasn't sure if I wanted the Turbo S or not as I also have an M8 Gran Coupe that's modified and frankly it's easily one of the best and most underhyped GT cars ever. So prior to delivery of my spec'd 992 I bought another highly specd used 992 Turbo S that had only 500 miles and decided to make sure it was right.... which clearly it was.
My dealer didn't know I had bought another 992 Turbo S off the market and was thrilled to take it on trade obviously and actually paid me exactly what my spec was plus mark up towards the trade. My spec was 269 plus 20k ADM, they gave me 300 for trade. My trades MSRP was 252 and being I bought it with some mark up it was a break even for me even though I bought it with 500 miles amd traded in with 1700 miles. They ended up selling that same Turbo S for 330k. Making 30k on that trade plus the 20k ADM that was on my Spec.
Being new to the Porsche world and game of allocations I wasn't really understanding of how all this stuff worked and considering they profited $50k in just market adjustments on that 992 Turbo S deal/ Trade was a win win for them.and I.
When I was offered my PTS GT3RS spot after essentially repeatedly harassing(just kidding) my Porsche team I told them very specifically I wasn't interested in trading in my Spec Turbo S and they were 100% on board and understanding since I put alot of memories on that car cruising the full PCH and through the Mojave in late 2022 and the fact it's optioned in a way nolonger possible for Turbo S. They were more excited about this fact as they want more clients that actually use their cars and help to promote the brand and expose to younger professionals such as myself.
About 2 months after that I was then called out of the blue for the GT4RS spot I wasn't even trying to pursue and when that call happens you just don't say no. It was only a 40k adm and they flat out told me there wasn't a need to take it in order to get the 3RS, it was a matter of offering to an enthusiast first before "the list". Needless to say same thing, I didn't offer a trade and that was known prior.
So in short my dealers made essentially $100k in ADM between 3 highline and to get allocations and 1 car being traded in. In return I can pretty much get any allocation I want (within reason of course) and the sky's the limits moving forward. The best thing is even though I hate watches my dealer gives me the Vin matching Porsche Design watch in each deal and that's something I can actually appreciate since they have meaning to them rather than an obscure chunk of metal on my wrist that tells me the same thing my phone screen does tucked in my pocket.
On the flip side of the equation.....
At a Porsche event locally I met a guy that had bought 11 cars prior from same dealer and had been dead to rights hunting for a GT3 spot. He was understandably perturbed when I started chatting with him on builds and such and come to find out he was one that never gave the dealership reoccurring trades on any of those cars.
Just goes to show, the volume of cars bought means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING rather than how that dealer sees you as a long term client.
I feel as long as you keep open dialog with your dealer and don't buy the cars to be jewelry then things are smooth when it comes to allocations.
This was around Point Reyes on the way to PCH heading in from Napa. Just pure pixels and no edits. Hard to let go of the car with a story.
what options are no longer available for turbo s that you have on yours?
I think the notion of agreed trade in is just subjective to dealer/ client. My first allocation was a 992 Turbo S and I got putnthe front of a 2 yr waiting list because my local dealer found out I had an out of state allocation and he wanted to move in to secure a relationship. Frankly I wasn't sure if I wanted the Turbo S or not as I also have an M8 Gran Coupe that's modified and frankly it's easily one of the best and most underhyped GT cars ever. So prior to delivery of my spec'd 992 I bought another highly specd used 992 Turbo S that had only 500 miles and decided to make sure it was right.... which clearly it was.
My dealer didn't know I had bought another 992 Turbo S off the market and was thrilled to take it on trade obviously and actually paid me exactly what my spec was plus mark up towards the trade. My spec was 269 plus 20k ADM, they gave me 300 for trade. My trades MSRP was 252 and being I bought it with some mark up it was a break even for me even though I bought it with 500 miles amd traded in with 1700 miles. They ended up selling that same Turbo S for 330k. Making 30k on that trade plus the 20k ADM that was on my Spec.
Being new to the Porsche world and game of allocations I wasn't really understanding of how all this stuff worked and considering they profited $50k in just market adjustments on that 992 Turbo S deal/ Trade was a win win for them.and I.
When I was offered my PTS GT3RS spot after essentially repeatedly harassing(just kidding) my Porsche team I told them very specifically I wasn't interested in trading in my Spec Turbo S and they were 100% on board and understanding since I put alot of memories on that car cruising the full PCH and through the Mojave in late 2022 and the fact it's optioned in a way nolonger possible for Turbo S. They were more excited about this fact as they want more clients that actually use their cars and help to promote the brand and expose to younger professionals such as myself.
About 2 months after that I was then called out of the blue for the GT4RS spot I wasn't even trying to pursue and when that call happens you just don't say no. It was only a 40k adm and they flat out told me there wasn't a need to take it in order to get the 3RS, it was a matter of offering to an enthusiast first before "the list". Needless to say same thing, I didn't offer a trade and that was known prior.
So in short my dealers made essentially $100k in ADM between 3 highline and to get allocations and 1 car being traded in. In return I can pretty much get any allocation I want (within reason of course) and the sky's the limits moving forward. The best thing is even though I hate watches my dealer gives me the Vin matching Porsche Design watch in each deal and that's something I can actually appreciate since they have meaning to them rather than an obscure chunk of metal on my wrist that tells me the same thing my phone screen does tucked in my pocket.
On the flip side of the equation.....
At a Porsche event locally I met a guy that had bought 11 cars prior from same dealer and had been dead to rights hunting for a GT3 spot. He was understandably perturbed when I started chatting with him on builds and such and come to find out he was one that never gave the dealership reoccurring trades on any of those cars.
Just goes to show, the volume of cars bought means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING rather than how that dealer sees you as a long term client.
I feel as long as you keep open dialog with your dealer and don't buy the cars to be jewelry then things are smooth when it comes to allocations.
This was around Point Reyes on the way to PCH heading in from Napa. Just pure pixels and no edits. Hard to let go of the car with a story.
An important reminder for all the ‘I’m on the list folks’ - there is no real prioritized list unless you have $ down or a significant history with the dealership.
I think the notion of agreed trade in is just subjective to dealer/ client. My first allocation was a 992 Turbo S and I got putnthe front of a 2 yr waiting list because my local dealer found out I had an out of state allocation and he wanted to move in to secure a relationship. Frankly I wasn't sure if I wanted the Turbo S or not as I also have an M8 Gran Coupe that's modified and frankly it's easily one of the best and most underhyped GT cars ever. So prior to delivery of my spec'd 992 I bought another highly specd used 992 Turbo S that had only 500 miles and decided to make sure it was right.... which clearly it was.
My dealer didn't know I had bought another 992 Turbo S off the market and was thrilled to take it on trade obviously and actually paid me exactly what my spec was plus mark up towards the trade. My spec was 269 plus 20k ADM, they gave me 300 for trade. My trades MSRP was 252 and being I bought it with some mark up it was a break even for me even though I bought it with 500 miles amd traded in with 1700 miles. They ended up selling that same Turbo S for 330k. Making 30k on that trade plus the 20k ADM that was on my Spec.
Being new to the Porsche world and game of allocations I wasn't really understanding of how all this stuff worked and considering they profited $50k in just market adjustments on that 992 Turbo S deal/ Trade was a win win for them.and I.
When I was offered my PTS GT3RS spot after essentially repeatedly harassing(just kidding) my Porsche team I told them very specifically I wasn't interested in trading in my Spec Turbo S and they were 100% on board and understanding since I put alot of memories on that car cruising the full PCH and through the Mojave in late 2022 and the fact it's optioned in a way nolonger possible for Turbo S. They were more excited about this fact as they want more clients that actually use their cars and help to promote the brand and expose to younger professionals such as myself.
About 2 months after that I was then called out of the blue for the GT4RS spot I wasn't even trying to pursue and when that call happens you just don't say no. It was only a 40k adm and they flat out told me there wasn't a need to take it in order to get the 3RS, it was a matter of offering to an enthusiast first before "the list". Needless to say same thing, I didn't offer a trade and that was known prior.
So in short my dealers made essentially $100k in ADM between 3 highline and to get allocations and 1 car being traded in. In return I can pretty much get any allocation I want (within reason of course) and the sky's the limits moving forward. The best thing is even though I hate watches my dealer gives me the Vin matching Porsche Design watch in each deal and that's something I can actually appreciate since they have meaning to them rather than an obscure chunk of metal on my wrist that tells me the same thing my phone screen does tucked in my pocket.
On the flip side of the equation.....
At a Porsche event locally I met a guy that had bought 11 cars prior from same dealer and had been dead to rights hunting for a GT3 spot. He was understandably perturbed when I started chatting with him on builds and such and come to find out he was one that never gave the dealership reoccurring trades on any of those cars.
Just goes to show, the volume of cars bought means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING rather than how that dealer sees you as a long term client.
I feel as long as you keep open dialog with your dealer and don't buy the cars to be jewelry then things are smooth when it comes to allocations.
I am not required to trade in any car to them. I can keep as many or trade as many back in as I please. I can keep the next 11 MSRP GT cars they give me if I choose. If they give me GT allocations at MSRP and I decide to sell them on the open market for a profit, do you think they would continue to give me future allocations at MSRP? Unlikely. They will give them to the next customer who will not flip the cars.
I would say your experience is an outlier and not the norm, and that your dealer was looking to establish new relationships with new clients and that their GT clientele was not anywhere close to as deep as my dealer network or most in the country. The fact is, you're not an MSRP customer, you're still paying ADMs. If you think the volume of cars one buys has "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" to do with an average customer/dealer relationship, you are sorely mistaken.
I’ve bought 8 Porsches from my dealer since 2011, am buying the ninth this week, and the tenth will be delivered in August if it’s on schedule.
The dealer is 10 minutes from my house. I moved the servicing of my 8 Porsches to them, and they pick up and drop off the cars and give me discounts on the servicing, so that’s win-win. The competing dealer is 15 minutes from my house, and there’s a good independent shop 20 minutes from my house.
I have garage space for 11 cars, and I currently have 11 cars, so buying another car means trading one in.
I think it would be foolish for my dealer to jeopardize getting my sales, trade in, and service business by not giving me the GT cars at MSRP.
Why would they be foolish? They don’t need you. I know that sounds harsh and I’m sorry but it’s true. Someone will come along and give them what the market value is for it. Probably in about 20 minutes actually. Now I’m sure they’re grateful to you for buying so many cars and I believe you that they sell you the cars at MSRP but they don’t have to. At least right now they don’t. And if they did change and start adding ADM’s and if you got pissed off at them and stoped buying they would still be able to sell those 10 cars you bought from them to somebody else. Please understand that I get, support and encourage strong relationships with any place that you continue to do business with, but that doesn’t change the reality of the current market. I revert back to my housing example. It’s really the same thing. At least that’s how I see it.
06-13-2023, 12:25 AM
