A place to discuss all things ADM
12-09-2023, 07:01 PM
#7726
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Balking at 4k miles is symptomatic of buyers who aren't interested in driving these cars, but rather just having the feeling of 'ownership', showing off the cars at C&C, and maybe trying to flip the cars for profit. Sad. (Yes, I know, people can do whatever they want with their cars ... 
)
)
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12-09-2023, 07:20 PM
#7727
Balking at 4k miles is symptomatic of buyers who aren't interested in driving these cars, but rather just having the feeling of 'ownership', showing off the cars at C&C, and maybe trying to flip the cars for profit. Sad. (Yes, I know, people can do whatever they want with their cars ... )
)hoping your inference isn't that I am one of them. I drive all of my cars to the bone and back as much as I can. Simply saying your out-of-wack estimate on value isnt the market.
12-09-2023, 07:21 PM
#7728
Balking at 4k miles is symptomatic of buyers who aren't interested in driving these cars, but rather just having the feeling of 'ownership', showing off the cars at C&C, and maybe trying to flip the cars for profit. Sad. (Yes, I know, people can do whatever they want with their cars ... )
)you must be an engineer....bolding my words....hilarious
12-09-2023, 07:45 PM
#7729
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12-09-2023, 07:54 PM
#7730
then, as a general statement of yours, I agree. However, I must ask as you seem extremely knowledgable and invested in value concerns. Where do you pull high $200s for a 4k car. Can you point to any relevant sale in the past month that leads you to this number? I am certain the wizard of willlovethetrack (or whatever that genius calls himself) is on nerve's edge with your assertion.
12-09-2023, 08:01 PM
#7731
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then, as a general statement of yours, I agree. However, I must ask as you seem extremely knowledgable and invested in value concerns. Where do you pull high $200s for a 4k car. Can you point to any relevant sale in the past month that leads you to this number? I am certain the wizard of willlovethetrack (or whatever that genius calls himself) is on nerve's edge with your assertion.
https://www.porschewestbroward.com/c...ring%20Package
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GT3 Mike (12-10-2023)
12-09-2023, 08:30 PM
#7732
Goodness. $350k for a winged, non-PTS car. I hope these guys are also buying cars at these buoyant prices (minus a reasonable spread)
12-09-2023, 08:32 PM
#7733
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12-09-2023, 08:53 PM
#7734
@WenigerAberBeser you should sell it at MSRP so you aren't like all these crazy stealers out there!
All jokes aside, I'd say between 40-70k over MSRP is realistic. As others mentioned, some of it likely depends on your PTS color. At this price point, there is possibly someone who would pay a premium to get a car that aligns with their desires very closely. In my opinion, once you are already spending 250k, another 10k or so doesn't really move the needle and I'd pay the extra to get the right color/options.
All jokes aside, I'd say between 40-70k over MSRP is realistic. As others mentioned, some of it likely depends on your PTS color. At this price point, there is possibly someone who would pay a premium to get a car that aligns with their desires very closely. In my opinion, once you are already spending 250k, another 10k or so doesn't really move the needle and I'd pay the extra to get the right color/options.
It is kind of funny to see folks pay a 10% premium for a sub 1k miles car vs 3-4K miles cars… easy to put 2k miles on this car in 4-6 months if not less
i am getting some decent offers from dealers and if a deal isn’t made I will post on RL. Selling privately is just a PIA most of the time so id rather take less $$ for an easy transaction
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Joe mac (12-09-2023)
12-09-2023, 09:25 PM
#7735
Friends were visiting from Florida and were telling me about their local Porsche dealership. I had a look at their website and found this. This is local to Florida, and these are asking prices not sale prices, but it may gave some indication of where cars with desirable PTS colors are.
https://www.porschewestbroward.com/c...ring%20Package
https://www.porschewestbroward.com/c...ring%20Package
wild prices. certainly not what I am seeing here in the Mid-Atlantic, but who knows anymore. Was at my McLaren dealership today and surprised to see the number of 720s sitting on the lot....yet, those prices haven't dropped much either even with the 765 and now 750s being ordered. Still a wacky market for sure.
12-09-2023, 11:31 PM
#7736
Friends were visiting from Florida and were telling me about their local Porsche dealership. I had a look at their website and found this. This is local to Florida, and these are asking prices not sale prices, but it may gave some indication of where cars with desirable PTS colors are.
https://www.porschewestbroward.com/c...ring%20Package
https://www.porschewestbroward.com/c...ring%20Package
12-10-2023, 12:30 AM
#7737
Instructor
These are outlier pricing points, just like the 30k ADM mentioned above.
12-10-2023, 01:06 AM
#7738
Burning Brakes
Loop in mind that all we see are trades on BAT and other auction sites. Dealers can definitely get more for these GT 911’s than a seller using an auction site which has a lot of negatives. Risk of fraud being a major one along with paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for a car the buyer has not seen or driven. No real evaluation of condition provided with along with no financing. If your financing are banks happy to send a 1/4 of a million off to a seller in another state who wants to pay off his lender before signing the car over to the new owner?
Just like a Panamera - or a Cayenne- buyers buy new vehicles and drive off the lot and knowingly lose 15% to 20%. Why don’t they buy used from a private party?
The sales made by dealers are not disclosed - all we can see is that the car disappears from their inventory.
I traded a 911T 2023 with 179 miles on the odometer when I bought my 24’ GT3 and my salesman- who I know very well- won’t tell me what it sold for finally. They paid me $130,000 and listed it for $156,000. I suspect they sold it for maybe just below $150,000. It was sold within a week. I tried selling it on BAT and it only bid to $126,000 —-
Also listed it on Cars.com for three weeks and could not find a buyer over $128,000. This was a new car with nearly a full warranty as well.
The dealer in Florida is likely to see those GT3’s at nearly their asking price. I have friends that never negotiate on new car purchases- they just pay what the dealer is asking. One friend told me’ “ I don’t want the salesman to think I don’t have an extra $3,000 or whatever”. My father-in-law asked me to negotiate a Dodge truck purchase- new truck - and we were going to go to a few dealers the next weekend and he got up one morning and drove to the closet dealer and paid the asking price plus some other absurdly priced add-ons - like $200 for lifetime of the car nitrogen tire fills. Made me crazy. Said he didn’t want to deal with all the negotiating and haggling. Dealers know more about pricing than we do.
Just like a Panamera - or a Cayenne- buyers buy new vehicles and drive off the lot and knowingly lose 15% to 20%. Why don’t they buy used from a private party?
The sales made by dealers are not disclosed - all we can see is that the car disappears from their inventory.
I traded a 911T 2023 with 179 miles on the odometer when I bought my 24’ GT3 and my salesman- who I know very well- won’t tell me what it sold for finally. They paid me $130,000 and listed it for $156,000. I suspect they sold it for maybe just below $150,000. It was sold within a week. I tried selling it on BAT and it only bid to $126,000 —-
Also listed it on Cars.com for three weeks and could not find a buyer over $128,000. This was a new car with nearly a full warranty as well.
The dealer in Florida is likely to see those GT3’s at nearly their asking price. I have friends that never negotiate on new car purchases- they just pay what the dealer is asking. One friend told me’ “ I don’t want the salesman to think I don’t have an extra $3,000 or whatever”. My father-in-law asked me to negotiate a Dodge truck purchase- new truck - and we were going to go to a few dealers the next weekend and he got up one morning and drove to the closet dealer and paid the asking price plus some other absurdly priced add-ons - like $200 for lifetime of the car nitrogen tire fills. Made me crazy. Said he didn’t want to deal with all the negotiating and haggling. Dealers know more about pricing than we do.
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armbar (12-11-2023)
12-10-2023, 01:45 AM
#7739
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^ Good point.
I’ve never considered buying a car through an auction, I only buy cars I can see and test drive, and I only buy locally. In fact, all of my Porsches have been from the same dealer, except I bought one car locally from a private party.
All of the Porsches I sold were trade-ins to the same dealer (at very fair prices), except one car I recently sold to a private party (dealer didn’t want it).
I’ve never considered buying a car through an auction, I only buy cars I can see and test drive, and I only buy locally. In fact, all of my Porsches have been from the same dealer, except I bought one car locally from a private party.
All of the Porsches I sold were trade-ins to the same dealer (at very fair prices), except one car I recently sold to a private party (dealer didn’t want it).
12-10-2023, 02:00 AM
#7740
Burning Brakes
I find porsche dealers are usually reasonably fair on trade in values because they can sell cars at appreciably more than we can as private sellers and that has value in that it gives you another brownie point on an immediate allocation or future allocations. Dealers likely make often more money on used cars they take in trade. Porsche dealers want to have nice condition 911’s for example on their showroom floor.
We all watch BAT auctions but the vast majority of say GT3 transactions are done by dealers.
also the 2022 GT3’s have lost a significant amount of their warranty.
The other market is for new GT3 allocations - which command a premium still today. I paid $40,000 over msrp for my 2024 allocation now in my garage.And that was okay with me as I received a brand new gT3 delivered at PECLA to my specifications and had it delivered at PECLA. GT3 buyers should pay a much higher premium for an allocation than they would a car on BAT
We all watch BAT auctions but the vast majority of say GT3 transactions are done by dealers.
also the 2022 GT3’s have lost a significant amount of their warranty.
The other market is for new GT3 allocations - which command a premium still today. I paid $40,000 over msrp for my 2024 allocation now in my garage.And that was okay with me as I received a brand new gT3 delivered at PECLA to my specifications and had it delivered at PECLA. GT3 buyers should pay a much higher premium for an allocation than they would a car on BAT