A place to discuss all things ADM
05-26-2021, 12:13 PM
#211
I believe the discount was in Europe. Who knows what happens there.
05-26-2021, 01:11 PM
#212
Rennlist Member
Did we already do this article? I may have missed it.
40% of Car Shoppers Willing to Pay $5000 over MSRP for a New Car
40% of Car Shoppers Willing to Pay $5000 over MSRP for a New Car
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cadster (05-27-2021)
05-26-2021, 02:13 PM
#213
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05-26-2021, 03:54 PM
#215
Agree with you 100% but the want factor is just not there for me to pay ADM for a GT3 when it's just a stepping stone for an RS for me. There's a lot of headwinds when it comes to buy any kind of car today so I'll enjoy what I have for now. If my want factor is high enough for a GT4RS and/or GT3RS then I'll reassess things but for now I'll wait on the sidelines.
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azzurri (05-27-2021)
05-26-2021, 03:55 PM
#216
Oh I know how crazy the market is, I get weekly calls from telemarketers looking to buy my homes so it inflation is just not in cars...it's with almost everything.
05-26-2021, 08:13 PM
#218
05-26-2021, 08:14 PM
#219
Agree with you 100% but the want factor is just not there for me to pay ADM for a GT3 when it's just a stepping stone for an RS for me. There's a lot of headwinds when it comes to buy any kind of car today so I'll enjoy what I have for now. If my want factor is high enough for a GT4RS and/or GT3RS then I'll reassess things but for now I'll wait on the sidelines.
Last edited by Norcalgt3; 05-26-2021 at 08:16 PM.
05-27-2021, 12:26 AM
#220
Burning Brakes
05-27-2021, 04:18 AM
#221
I think what's sad is seeing what's left of the formerly good guy dealers including the ones you've shopped at (who I've bought multiple double digit cars from in the past) turn from MSRP to ADM in this cycle for most people. You might want to reach out and not be on the receiving end of bad news.
05-27-2021, 04:19 AM
#222
No, just saying that I cannot imagine a 992.1 GT3 cycle being more than 3 years old...and year 1 has already largely been accounted for with regards to sold orders. That leaves 2022 and maybe a few months of 2023 for this variant to continue. If Porsche is going to sell a lot of 992.1 GT3s, well it won't be this year, it will almost HAVE to be in 2022. In the grand scale of things, it's still not going to be enough cars to meet demand. I hope I'm wrong...I'm betting not.
05-27-2021, 08:31 AM
#223
Disclosure, I am NOT an economist, nor do I play one on TV. That said, I think mainly what we are seeing is a supply issue, not a demand issue. Certainly money supply (stimulus, money printing, etc) is a component, but the two biggest verticals in the broader economy, housing and automobiles, are suffering from unprecedented supply shortages. Inflation is too much money chasing too few goods, but if supply is stunted temporarily, pricing will adjust accordingly, and will come in the guise of inflation.
Take housing, as a second order consequence of the Great Recession, homes builders sImply stopped building homes. Fast forward, total supply is now 4M short of the historical norm. Indeed, available listings is lower than the total number of listing agents. Demand is strong, to be sure, but the supply is the real issue, and the core driver of rising prices.
Automotive is a similar story. The manufacturers do not have any slack in their production capacity. They can’t “turn on” an additional 10-20% worth of production when they want to. Something about factories costing billions of dollars to build. When they went down from COVID (along with the current chip supply chain issues), there was never going to be a chance for them to replenish inventory. The best they could hope for is to meet current demand with their current build schedule. So the Chevy store that usually carries 300 cars and now has 30 in stock is not going to be back up to 300 next month. They might get back to 300 Q1 or Q2 of next year.
Ultimately, if you decide today that you want more housing and more cars; 2-3 years from now, you have more housing and more cars. It’s hard to discern how much of this “inflation” is really persistent, and chronic, supply problems.
Here’s some interesting data points:
https://www.wlwt.com/article/custome...bbery/36552118
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/
Take housing, as a second order consequence of the Great Recession, homes builders sImply stopped building homes. Fast forward, total supply is now 4M short of the historical norm. Indeed, available listings is lower than the total number of listing agents. Demand is strong, to be sure, but the supply is the real issue, and the core driver of rising prices.
Automotive is a similar story. The manufacturers do not have any slack in their production capacity. They can’t “turn on” an additional 10-20% worth of production when they want to. Something about factories costing billions of dollars to build. When they went down from COVID (along with the current chip supply chain issues), there was never going to be a chance for them to replenish inventory. The best they could hope for is to meet current demand with their current build schedule. So the Chevy store that usually carries 300 cars and now has 30 in stock is not going to be back up to 300 next month. They might get back to 300 Q1 or Q2 of next year.
Ultimately, if you decide today that you want more housing and more cars; 2-3 years from now, you have more housing and more cars. It’s hard to discern how much of this “inflation” is really persistent, and chronic, supply problems.
Here’s some interesting data points:
https://www.wlwt.com/article/custome...bbery/36552118
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/
Last edited by cadster; 05-28-2021 at 07:41 PM.
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05-28-2021, 02:06 PM
#224
Rennlist Member
Disclosure, I am an economist, nor do I play one on TV, BUT I DID STAY AT A HOLIDAY INN LAST NIGHT. That said, I think mainly what we are seeing is a supply issue, not a demand issue. Certainly money supply (stimulus, money printing, etc) is a component, but the two biggest verticals in the broader economy, housing and automobiles, are suffering from unprecedented supply shortages. Inflation is too much money chasing too few goods, but if supply is stunted temporarily, pricing will adjust accordingly, and will come in the guise of inflation.
Take housing, as a second order consequence of the Great Recession, homes builders sImply stopped building homes. Fast forward, total supply is now 4M short of the historical norm. Indeed, available listings is lower than the total number of listing agents. Demand is strong, to be sure, but the supply is the real issue, and the core driver of rising prices.
Automotive is a similar story. The manufacturers do not have any slack in their production capacity. They can’t “turn on” an additional 10-20% worth of production when they want to. Something about factories costing billions of dollars to build. When they went down from COVID (along with the current chip supply chain issues), there was never going to be a chance for them to replenish inventory. The best they could hope for is to meet current demand with their current build schedule. So the Chevy store that usually carries 300 cars and now has 30 in stock is not going to be back up to 300 next month. They might get back to 300 Q1 or Q2 of next year.
Ultimately, if you decide today that you want more housing and more cars; 2-3 years from now, you have more housing and more cars. It’s hard to discern how much of this “inflation” is really persistent, and chronic, supply problems.
Here’s some interesting data points:
https://www.wlwt.com/article/custome...bbery/36552118
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/
Take housing, as a second order consequence of the Great Recession, homes builders sImply stopped building homes. Fast forward, total supply is now 4M short of the historical norm. Indeed, available listings is lower than the total number of listing agents. Demand is strong, to be sure, but the supply is the real issue, and the core driver of rising prices.
Automotive is a similar story. The manufacturers do not have any slack in their production capacity. They can’t “turn on” an additional 10-20% worth of production when they want to. Something about factories costing billions of dollars to build. When they went down from COVID (along with the current chip supply chain issues), there was never going to be a chance for them to replenish inventory. The best they could hope for is to meet current demand with their current build schedule. So the Chevy store that usually carries 300 cars and now has 30 in stock is not going to be back up to 300 next month. They might get back to 300 Q1 or Q2 of next year.
Ultimately, if you decide today that you want more housing and more cars; 2-3 years from now, you have more housing and more cars. It’s hard to discern how much of this “inflation” is really persistent, and chronic, supply problems.
Here’s some interesting data points:
https://www.wlwt.com/article/custome...bbery/36552118
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/
1) People are very impatient and do not like waiting (especially Americans)
2) We are all bad at predicting the future.
This subforum has just become a venting place for frustrated people.
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AlexCeres (05-28-2021)
05-28-2021, 03:24 PM
#225
Should I even bother asking around for spots on a list if we're okay with a delivery time around winter 2022 or spring 2023? We're finishing building a house this year so I'm okay waiting, but IDK if I'll be summarily ignored or not. We're up in Oregon so I'm not sure where dealers around here are at as far as ease of working with. We drove up to Portland and met with a sales person to chat about a Carrera S allocation but when I tried following up with her about considering a GT3 it's been radio silence.