smgkc

Thats right along the lines of what I have researched, however I wish these tuning companies would just say you should probably replace these. I just finished my 4 year Major and it would have been 10x times easier and cheaper to have done during the service.

thesaintusa

I don't think the tunes themselves cause issues with the diverter valves.

The increased boost called for by a tune may push (or exceed) the limits of the diverter valves. Needing to upgrade a diverter valve when you want to run more boost is not surprising and would be something I would consider doing if planning on running higher boost. Even if the diverter valve can manage the higher boost levels, my experience is that the plastic valves degrade with time and heat. Not all will fail, but some will. Unfortunately, with the increasing prevalence of turbocharged vehicles, diverter valves/BOVs are found in 80% of my garage.

I don't mind the BOVs that are VTA but my friends would say I am immature. For the 911 I would definitely not want a VTA arrangement.

That being said I have run diverter valves/BOVs both VTA and in a recirculation configuration. VTA requires tuning to compensate for the lost 'air', but I switched to speed density so it was not an issue. The beauty of VTA is you can choose how much of a child your car sounds like hahaha. My RX-7 BOV sounds like a high pitched chirp, where as my Subaru was just a loud Whooossshhhhh.

Not all tuners will sell hardware, so you will have to get them elsewhere.

cpg123

This post started out being of great interest to me as I purchased a highly optioned, super low mile 2017 Carrera 4S two weeks ago. I have been trying to decide on whether to buy a GIAC, FVD, APR or Softronic tune for the 4S. I can already attest to the quality of both APR and Cobb' tuning capabilities as I had an APR Stage 2 tune on my 2010 Audi A3 (sold when the 991.2 arrived) and also have Cobb Accessport (Stage 1+ from Flat6 Motorsports) on my 2017 Macan S. I absolutely loved the tunes on both of these cars. But to be honest, I was only looking to add some bolt on modifications and a tune to unleash additional power to these daily driven cars. I did not take either car to the track nor did I care if either car was the fastest car on the street or try to tweak out every extra HP. I just wanted a consistent, trouble-free reliable tune which gave good bang for the $$ and improved performance from stock.

There are positives and negatives for each tuning option. For my needs I will probably either convert my Macan S Cobb AP and convert it for the 991.2 as my wife will probably be using the Macan S as her daily driver OR invest in a second Cobb AP for the 991.2. I was never interested in putting my Macan on a dyno, I did some testing with a Dragy and was always very happy with the improvements my Cobb Stage 1 Tune and the 1+ upgrade from Flat6 provided. I like that with the Accessport I could easily add and remove tunes at my convenience from my driveway. For me, this flexibility was invaluable and Cobbs post sales support has been excellent. If I put a Cobb on my 991.2 4S, I will start with a Stage 2 tune and then do ProTunes as I upgrade other components down the road.

My APR tunes on my Audi were both (stage 1 and 2) great. But what I didn't like about the APR was when my car was under warranty I would have to take the car to a APR dealer before taking my car in for service to remove the flash and then return to APR to put the Flash back on. After my warranty expired, I took my Audi in for its annual service and when I picked up the car from Audi the tune had been removed when the Audi dealer did an ECU update. This was very inconvenient because I had moved 90 mins from the APR dealer I originally bought the Flash from and the local APR shop gave me a hard time because I didn't buy the APR from them. When and if APR provides an Accessport type device that allows me to update and remove the Flash at home, then and only then would I consider an APR tune. I

Softronic has an excellent reputation and there are two very reputable shops near me that specialize in building high HP modified engines and race/ track cars use Softronic for their ECU tuning needs. So I would think if these shops use Softronic, he must be pretty darn good at what he does..

GIAC is also a popular tune which I hear my local Porsche dealer offers if requested. I have heard of other dealers offering this tune as well. I am surprised no one has mentioned GIAC in this post.

As far as the OP's question about Diverter Valves and tuners being liable if they go bad. The tuner has no responsibility for blown diverters, they should be considered as wear items. I've had to replace my stock diverter valve on my A3 over the years. It should be noted that diverter valves can go bad even in a stock car if you drive your car hard. So obviously, if you add a tune / increasing boost over stock boost levels you have a good chance of blowing stock diverter valves. If you are increasing boost you should definitely look into upgrading your diverter valve.

Unfortunately this whole thread has taken a turn for the worst. To me, it appears the OP really hasn't explained what his goals are for his car. Yet is asking lots of questions without giving any specifics. Does he plan to take the car on the track (drag, autocross or road) will it be a canyon carver, highway racer or daily driver??? What upgrades is he considering down the road?What reason does he want PDK tuning capabilities from an engine tune? If you have Sports Chrono does one really need PDK tuning? Probably not.... unless you are tracking the car.

I don't understand why he is criticizing Softronic for not answering all of his questions, meanwhile I counted over 20 questions in just the first post alone. Softronic is the only tuner who has added any information to this thread. Why not give the guy a call, discuss your goals for the car and discuss a list of modifications you may be considering in the future? I am pretty sure with all of Softronic's experience he could give you a lot more valuable information than he could write in a thread with very generic questions.

XLR82XS

Just got the FVD for a C2 991.2.

F355bob

Let us know how you like it
I'm also thinking of a FVD tune

smgkc

I think you have some fair points and I want to start by addressing each of your questions. I plan on the vehicle being a daily driver in Missouri (winter sucks here) but I do have a second vehicle for those meh days. I am not aware of even a track close by and it doesn't really interest me, I really just care about some extra oomph while keeping it as mechanically safe as possible. As for upgrades, I really just want to stick with the tune and maybe PDK (though I dont like that I cant take it back to stock with FVD). I dont hold on to vehicles too long 1-2 years max usually, so I really don't think even bolt on mods are right for me. I sadly do not have Sports Chrono, this was my first dive into owning a 911, I've owned two Macans in the past, in the future the dream is a Miami Blue Targa 4 GTS made to order.

I understand your standpoint on Softronics and will include them in my pro and con list (give me a bit to do this) as they are a worthy player and deserve recognition for their accomplishments, however participation in forums like this is a double edged sword in my opinion, as you get to promote your message and credentials, but you are also subject to questions. I directly asked Softronics 3 questions three times and they answered one of them after the third ask, for me to call them or not has nothing to do with my feelings to not purchase their product from being ignored by them.

GIAC is probably worth adding as well, I don't know much about them except that on the forums its rumored Champion Porsche sells their product and maintains the factory warranty with only GIAC. I have worked with Champion before and know they are the largest dealer in the US, having an old Walmart as Porsche storage is pretty impressive. I would imagine they have trust in GIAC to keep the warranty.

On the liability front, nobody can really claim liability safety or not, anyone with $50 in their pocket can sue and I do believe there is some liability on the tuners behalf because they are changing the behavior and characteristics of the vehicle, but that is irrelevant this was just my shot in the dark into guessing why Softronics wouldn't reply on the diverter valve question. I have yet to see a tune that does not up the boost pressure in the 991.2's which i would think makes the diverter valves more necessary.

smgkc

+1 I'm really curious to hear your thoughts on the tune.

spdracerut

My observations
COBB: has provided dyno charts, customers have dyno'd, pro-tuned, drag strip and dragy runs
APR: provided dynos, customers have drag strip and dragy runs, and videos of all those.
FVD: provides dyno information, no independent performance testing info I'm aware of
Softronic: provides peak power and torque gains, no independent tests I'm aware of

To me, the dyno is important because of the shape of the torque curve. It's not just about peak numbers.

smgkc

There has been quite a few claims of dynos not being fair, I think it has something to do with temperature, air density, elevation, etc causing inconsistent results, I'm guessing from Florida vs Colorado could be a big enough difference to matter. That being said no idea of what the difference threshold is maybe 5hp maybe 30hp?

Cobb still has multiple claims of issues whereas I am not aware of issues with any of the others, i dont understand the cobb pro-tuner platform well enough but it seems that the pro-tunes are based on the OTS maps then slightly modified.

Softronic

Im sure XLR82XS will love the tune as he generally does like their files and has posted he has them on his 991 and other porsche cars.

spdracerut

With dynos, you should only compare percentage gains between before/after, same car, same dyno. For example, COBB looks to be on ver 6 of their tune (V1.06) on their stage 2 GTS and here is their dyno info. Peak torque gain with 93 octane is 22%. Going from 400wtq to a bit under 500wtq. APR shares similar info on their site. Actually a bit more as APR as they have different power levels depending on if you're in normal or sport.



Softronic uses crank numbers on their website. On their GTS tune, they claim 571tq vs. the baseline 405tq, which is a 41% increase. That's around where the first version of the COBB map was, very much a rally car style torque curve with as much as possible in the mid-range and dropping off from there. The newest Cobb map as you can see has a flatter torque curve. Apparently customers were requesting it for a more linear feel.

https://www.softronicsoftware.com/99...software-2017/


APR shows torque going from 435 to 556 for a 28% gain. They also ramped in their peak torque a bit latter at 4k rpms to aid drivability.


FVD tuned for more mild gains. Note their units are in Nm for torque and PS for power. They only went for a 16% peak torque gain.

Softronic

Well as long as your posting information on Softronic lets make sure its correct in the future so why don't you send me what you have so I can correct or adjust it for the forum as we do want everyone to have the most accurate information posted . You can email me at info@softronicsoftware.com or PM me on this site.
Thanks,
Scott

SpeedCircuit

Continual updates are 100% a good thing. There are several reasons for this. Keep in mind I'm just making generalizations to illustrate an example. Expecting a tuning solution to have everything figured out from the beginning isn't feasible. Would you rather wait 10 years to have almost everything for your car's ECU figured out? Or would you rather wait a few years for the most important things to be figured out, and enjoy 6 years of improvements?

1. In general, it takes many years to find every map and feature in an ECU. So for a given platform, one tuning solution might have 70% of the maps defined in the first two years, and another might have 65%. But more often than not, the company who has 70% of the maps defined doesn't have all of the maps that the 65% company has. Sure, there will be some overlap, but in general there will be some maps that one tuning solution has access to that the other does not. As the years go by, companies will make it closer to 100% of maps defined, but almost never does any one company unlock every single map in the ECU (nor do they need to, realistically).
2. Features - Some tuning solutions add features to the ECU that weren't there from the factory. Brake boosting, flex fuel, on-the-fly map switching, etc. Even if a tuning solution somehow managed to figure it out 100% on version 1, there would still be the potential to add features via updates.
3. Realistically, any tuning solution should be updating things over time. There are platforms that I've been tuning for a very long time, yet I'll still occasionally figure out something new on.

SpeedCircuit

Here's an example of a custom SpeedCircuit tune on a base Carrera using the Cobb solution. It's a night and day difference and feels like a different car.

Valvefloat991

How much boost are you running to achieve this output?