ECU Tuning Questions (Detailed)
06-21-2021, 12:59 PM
#166
Rennlist Member
I just stumbled onto this thread today (6/21/21). It appears without reading every single post that the OP never made up his mind?
I have experience with Cobb tuning on 2 Porsches and FVD on another. All of that experience is good. Support from both companies has been great when needed. All 3 cars got good power gains. The FVD-modded Panamera Turbo gets 560 wheel horsepower and 625 ft-lbs torque. As more than one commenter noted, this is on 91 octane, and I am not messing around with E85 for daily driving or autocross.
As some have noted the physical AccessPort is a more elegant and user friendly tool than the MyGenius, but these are all devices that sit in a drawer; they don't get used like the car stereo, so that should not be the deciding factor.
I'm guessing that the OP in Missouri does not have a local tuning shop with a ton of Prsche experience, so he should stick to the company-written tunes from whichever vendor he chooses.
I have experience with Cobb tuning on 2 Porsches and FVD on another. All of that experience is good. Support from both companies has been great when needed. All 3 cars got good power gains. The FVD-modded Panamera Turbo gets 560 wheel horsepower and 625 ft-lbs torque. As more than one commenter noted, this is on 91 octane, and I am not messing around with E85 for daily driving or autocross.
As some have noted the physical AccessPort is a more elegant and user friendly tool than the MyGenius, but these are all devices that sit in a drawer; they don't get used like the car stereo, so that should not be the deciding factor.
I'm guessing that the OP in Missouri does not have a local tuning shop with a ton of Prsche experience, so he should stick to the company-written tunes from whichever vendor he chooses.
06-22-2021, 07:06 AM
#167
Intermediate
I ended up getting the Litchfield tune with the Cobb AP. I was going to wait to write a better summary in it's own separate thread but I'll write a quick review now. I bought this last month for my 911 Carrera T which is otherwise a bone stock MT car.
I bought overseas from Australia. I got the product in a decent amount of time although I had to e-mail a couple of times to confirm that my money was received and the order was being processed . They don't take credit cards from overseas, at least not from Australia, so I was forced to wire money over via bank transfer. An e-mail confirming that they received the money and that they were processing the order would have been nice without prompting on my end.
Though the website says that the Cobb AP will be pre-loaded with the Litchfield map, mine was loaded only with the standard Cobb 1.06 991.2 maps. Fortunately, I noticed, I could see someone easily assuming that the maps must be from Litchfield since the map labels don't have any company name associated with them. I called over to Litchfield, and Iain Litchfield himself happened to answer the phone and told me that they needed specific info from my car before they could send me the Litchfield maps via e-mail. He was pleasant to talk to and I let him know that I chose his company because he also owns a Carrera T. I sent over the required info to the person who sold me the Cobb AP and followed up with him after 4 business days. After still no response for over a week, I e-mailed customer service and within two hours received a reply from Iain Litchfield who apologized for the oversight and promptly sent me the maps along with detailed instructions.
The delay in receiving the Litchfield was actually a blessing in disguise because it allowed me to directly compare the Cobb 1.06 93 Octane Stage 1 tune to the Litchfield tune. Although the 1.06 tune is widely considered to be neutered in comparison to the 1.04 tune, I honestly would have been happy with the results. The power difference is very noticeable in the seat of the pants, it just pulls harder. It was a lot more noticeable than a Cobb Stage 1 tune I did to a WRX many years ago (2.0 engine). I don't think there was more any more turbo lag, but it felt like there was more because the pulling sensation really kicked in past 7-8 PSI. The car felt much more obviously turbo-charged than before the tune. Otherwise, the car felt like it came from the factory, very smooth but with more kick in the pants after the boost builds up. I drove this tune for about 10 days before switching to the Cobb tune, with most of the driving in Sport+ mode.
I loaded the Litchfield tune and it is immediately apparent that it was a completely different tune. The first few hard accelerations, the car seemed be learning to adapt to the new settings as the boost build-up felt slightly uneven. After that, things smoothed out. The Litchfield tune feels far more linear than the Cobb tune and more powerful. Whereas the Cobb made the 991.2 feel more like a turbo car, the Litchfield made the same car feel more NA. Power builds progressively as boost builds. Throttle management is key because the Litchfield tune will easily break traction in first and second gear, something I couldn't do with the Cobb without trying to. That said, it's winter here in Australia so this is with cold tires on a cold public road (about 60 degrees Fahrenheit on new Pilot Sport 4s). There is not a distinct turbo kick with the Litchfield tune, the power just keeps building throughout the RPM range, and the power is impressive. There is a very specific set of instructions that Iain sent me to log the proper data he needs to customize the tune to my car. Where I live in Australia, there isn't any tolerance for excessive speeding, plus random kangaroos and wombats can appear at anytime on some of the backroads, so this is something that I will need to accomplish on a track. Afterwards, I'll turn the data into Iain via e-mail and he'll massage the tune and send it back to me via e-mail and I can upload it via the Accessport. All of the above was in Sport+. In Normal mode, everything is noticeably dialed back, I'm not breaking traction, and it's perfect for normal around town driving. I almost never drive in Sport unless I feel like hearing extra pops and crackles from the exhaust, which is rare. I did notice that the Litchfield tune produces more exhaust pops and crackles in Sport+ mode than factory or the Cobb tune. Overall the driving experience remains very smooth and factory like.
I would happily buy the Litchfield tune again.
Final note, when uploading either the Cobb or Litchfield tune to the car, expect the car to throw out every error code imaginable. It felt and looked like I was breaking the car while the upload was taking place. But after the upload was complete, the car started up just fine with no error codes to date. Hope this helps.
I bought overseas from Australia. I got the product in a decent amount of time although I had to e-mail a couple of times to confirm that my money was received and the order was being processed . They don't take credit cards from overseas, at least not from Australia, so I was forced to wire money over via bank transfer. An e-mail confirming that they received the money and that they were processing the order would have been nice without prompting on my end.
Though the website says that the Cobb AP will be pre-loaded with the Litchfield map, mine was loaded only with the standard Cobb 1.06 991.2 maps. Fortunately, I noticed, I could see someone easily assuming that the maps must be from Litchfield since the map labels don't have any company name associated with them. I called over to Litchfield, and Iain Litchfield himself happened to answer the phone and told me that they needed specific info from my car before they could send me the Litchfield maps via e-mail. He was pleasant to talk to and I let him know that I chose his company because he also owns a Carrera T. I sent over the required info to the person who sold me the Cobb AP and followed up with him after 4 business days. After still no response for over a week, I e-mailed customer service and within two hours received a reply from Iain Litchfield who apologized for the oversight and promptly sent me the maps along with detailed instructions.
The delay in receiving the Litchfield was actually a blessing in disguise because it allowed me to directly compare the Cobb 1.06 93 Octane Stage 1 tune to the Litchfield tune. Although the 1.06 tune is widely considered to be neutered in comparison to the 1.04 tune, I honestly would have been happy with the results. The power difference is very noticeable in the seat of the pants, it just pulls harder. It was a lot more noticeable than a Cobb Stage 1 tune I did to a WRX many years ago (2.0 engine). I don't think there was more any more turbo lag, but it felt like there was more because the pulling sensation really kicked in past 7-8 PSI. The car felt much more obviously turbo-charged than before the tune. Otherwise, the car felt like it came from the factory, very smooth but with more kick in the pants after the boost builds up. I drove this tune for about 10 days before switching to the Cobb tune, with most of the driving in Sport+ mode.
I loaded the Litchfield tune and it is immediately apparent that it was a completely different tune. The first few hard accelerations, the car seemed be learning to adapt to the new settings as the boost build-up felt slightly uneven. After that, things smoothed out. The Litchfield tune feels far more linear than the Cobb tune and more powerful. Whereas the Cobb made the 991.2 feel more like a turbo car, the Litchfield made the same car feel more NA. Power builds progressively as boost builds. Throttle management is key because the Litchfield tune will easily break traction in first and second gear, something I couldn't do with the Cobb without trying to. That said, it's winter here in Australia so this is with cold tires on a cold public road (about 60 degrees Fahrenheit on new Pilot Sport 4s). There is not a distinct turbo kick with the Litchfield tune, the power just keeps building throughout the RPM range, and the power is impressive. There is a very specific set of instructions that Iain sent me to log the proper data he needs to customize the tune to my car. Where I live in Australia, there isn't any tolerance for excessive speeding, plus random kangaroos and wombats can appear at anytime on some of the backroads, so this is something that I will need to accomplish on a track. Afterwards, I'll turn the data into Iain via e-mail and he'll massage the tune and send it back to me via e-mail and I can upload it via the Accessport. All of the above was in Sport+. In Normal mode, everything is noticeably dialed back, I'm not breaking traction, and it's perfect for normal around town driving. I almost never drive in Sport unless I feel like hearing extra pops and crackles from the exhaust, which is rare. I did notice that the Litchfield tune produces more exhaust pops and crackles in Sport+ mode than factory or the Cobb tune. Overall the driving experience remains very smooth and factory like.
I would happily buy the Litchfield tune again.
Final note, when uploading either the Cobb or Litchfield tune to the car, expect the car to throw out every error code imaginable. It felt and looked like I was breaking the car while the upload was taking place. But after the upload was complete, the car started up just fine with no error codes to date. Hope this helps.
Last edited by SpiderG; 06-22-2021 at 07:45 AM. Reason: Spelling and clarity.
06-22-2021, 07:46 AM
#168
Rennlist Member
I loaded the Litchfield tune and it is immediately apparent that it was a completely different tune. The first few hard accelerations, the car seemed be learning to adapt to the new settings as the boost build-up felt slightly uneven. After that, things smoothed out. The Litchfield tune feels far more linear than the Cobb tune and more powerful. Whereas the Cobb made the 991.2 feel more like a turbo car, the Litchfield made the same car feel more NA. Power builds progressively as boost builds. Throttle management is key because the Litchfield tune will easily break traction in first and second gear, something I couldn't do with the Cobb without trying to. That said, it's winter here in Australia so this is with cold tires on a cold public road (about 60 degrees Fahrenheit on new Pilot Sport 4s). There is not a distinct turbo kick with the Litchfield tune, the power just keeps building throughout the RPM range, and the power is impressive. There is a very specific set of instructions that Iain sent me to log the proper data he needs to customize the tune to my car. Where I live in Australia, there isn't any tolerance for excessive speeding, plus random kangaroos and wombats can appear at anytime on some of the backroads, so this is something that I will need to accomplish on a track. Afterwards, I'll turn the data into Iain via e-mail and he'll massage the tune and send it back to me via e-mail and I can upload it via the Accessport. All of the above was in Sport+. In Normal mode, everything is noticeably dialed back, I'm not breaking traction, and it's perfect for normal around town driving. I almost never drive in Sport unless I feel like hearing extra pops and crackles from the exhaust, which is rare. I did notice that the Litchfield tune produces more exhaust pops and crackles in Sport+ mode than factory or the Cobb tune. Overall the driving experience remains very smooth and factory like.
I would happily buy the Litchfield tune again.
EDIT: This was all done onsite at Litchfield using their Dyno. I've also had my 928 on there and it is still pushing out over 300bhp after 30 plus years!
Last edited by jchasty; 06-22-2021 at 07:48 AM.
07-15-2021, 02:27 AM
#169
Basic Sponsor
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Our 991.2 base Carrera went .7s & 9mph faster from tune and exhaust!
Baseline
Post-Tune
__________________
08-09-2021, 11:42 PM
#170
Advanced
Finally bit the bullet and based on a few of the positive comments above (such as @justbob ) I went for the Softtronic tune. Pretty easy to do thanks to the handheld unit. I just got back from the first 30 miles in it - Scott says the new tune needs a little time to settle. But my initial observations are that there's much better punch down lower and off the line it just goes a lot harder - the turbo spools up earlier. It's deceptively quick too - the power feels linear, just revs really well through the range - there were a few moments of holy sh*t I'm going a lot quicker than usual. By the time I rounded my fav turn on the way home it was feeling pretty great, getting a little backend schimmy in a corner that it didn't previously do that with. Like a whole new car!
Nice work, Softtronic!
Nice work, Softtronic!
08-14-2021, 02:27 AM
#171
Advanced
Following up on my last note. We took C2 out for date night tonight, and had a really nice drive down south.
The thing I notice, apart from the off the line harder boost is the continued boost right through the rev range. Before it would taper off a lot at speed, down to 9psi even. Now it's going right up to 16psi (akin to a GTS) and doesn't feel like it's being limited now with more boost through the rev range than before - my lady felt like it was just much smoother and trying less hard to get to speed. More like her P85 Tesla she says
It really is pretty fabulous!
The thing I notice, apart from the off the line harder boost is the continued boost right through the rev range. Before it would taper off a lot at speed, down to 9psi even. Now it's going right up to 16psi (akin to a GTS) and doesn't feel like it's being limited now with more boost through the rev range than before - my lady felt like it was just much smoother and trying less hard to get to speed. More like her P85 Tesla she says
It really is pretty fabulous!
08-14-2021, 10:01 PM
#172
Intermediate
I've used Softronic for both my 991.2 (Base and S). I just put it on my S, so I haven't done baseline or post tune pulls (currently running the tune), but have on my Base and some 1/4 drag strip time FWIW.
991.2 Base Info (PDK, Sport Chrono, Tune-Only, Stock hardware, Michelin PS4S tires, May 2021 in DFW/Texas)
1. 350whp to 410whp on Dynojet from a tune alone. Shop couldn't get WTQ numbers as they don't know where to connect the leads (this was a GM shop I used for my past C7).
2. Texas Motorplex 1/4 mile runs (5 total) always 11.6x @ @ 120.x+ mph. June 2021, very humid evening.
Summary - I never ran it stock, but I know these base 991.2 tuned numbers are much better than stock (especially in North Texas heat). I ran a stock C8 convertible using launch control 3 times, beat it off the line, and through the 1/4 mile every time. By the 3rd run I was easily pulling on it. That C8 convertible was not consistent at all; unlike my 991.2 Base Tuned which was ridiculously consistent (great for bracket racing. I have GoPro video, but sort of lazy to pull it - just happy how I ran (I have a few time slips still).
Future - I have my 991.2 S now tuned through Softronic, but haven't a chance to dyno before and after (same shop can't accommodate my schedule yet). But I can easily tell it's faster than my tuned base 991.2 I will be hitting Texas Motorplex Saturday evening 08/28 with similar temps to put it to the test. One difference, aside from Base to S, is I'm running Yokohama Advan tires instead (will change to PS4S when these wear out).
Long post long.. Softronic is my choice now and in the future. Hoping to get a 992 S in the future to get their tune on!
991.2 Base Info (PDK, Sport Chrono, Tune-Only, Stock hardware, Michelin PS4S tires, May 2021 in DFW/Texas)
1. 350whp to 410whp on Dynojet from a tune alone. Shop couldn't get WTQ numbers as they don't know where to connect the leads (this was a GM shop I used for my past C7).
2. Texas Motorplex 1/4 mile runs (5 total) always 11.6x @ @ 120.x+ mph. June 2021, very humid evening.
Summary - I never ran it stock, but I know these base 991.2 tuned numbers are much better than stock (especially in North Texas heat). I ran a stock C8 convertible using launch control 3 times, beat it off the line, and through the 1/4 mile every time. By the 3rd run I was easily pulling on it. That C8 convertible was not consistent at all; unlike my 991.2 Base Tuned which was ridiculously consistent (great for bracket racing. I have GoPro video, but sort of lazy to pull it - just happy how I ran (I have a few time slips still).
Future - I have my 991.2 S now tuned through Softronic, but haven't a chance to dyno before and after (same shop can't accommodate my schedule yet). But I can easily tell it's faster than my tuned base 991.2 I will be hitting Texas Motorplex Saturday evening 08/28 with similar temps to put it to the test. One difference, aside from Base to S, is I'm running Yokohama Advan tires instead (will change to PS4S when these wear out).
Long post long.. Softronic is my choice now and in the future. Hoping to get a 992 S in the future to get their tune on!
The following 5 users liked this post by Snowkone:
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08-21-2021, 10:32 AM
#173
Instructor
Finally bit the bullet and based on a few of the positive comments above (such as @justbob ) I went for the Softtronic tune. Pretty easy to do thanks to the handheld unit. I just got back from the first 30 miles in it - Scott says the new tune needs a little time to settle. But my initial observations are that there's much better punch down lower and off the line it just goes a lot harder - the turbo spools up earlier. It's deceptively quick too - the power feels linear, just revs really well through the range - there were a few moments of holy sh*t I'm going a lot quicker than usual. By the time I rounded my fav turn on the way home it was feeling pretty great, getting a little backend schimmy in a corner that it didn't previously do that with. Like a whole new car!
Nice work, Softtronic!
Nice work, Softtronic!
If you haven't already, put some MP4s tires on it. It will be a totally different car once again.
I went up one size 255 and 315.
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08-24-2021, 03:16 PM
#174
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For those considering a Cobb AP, here's an installation video:
10-03-2021, 04:49 PM
#175
Rennlist Member
Scott is very easy to work with answers his phone, returns calls and e-mails. And his tune turns your car (base 991.2, manual) into a real beast. No regrets.
10-04-2021, 01:44 PM
#176
Intermediate
I was thinking about going up in tire size when I switch out these Yokohama Advans for MS PS4S. Any issue with rubbing or sticking out a little? Running a 991.2 C2S; so not wide body.
10-04-2021, 08:52 PM
#177
Burning Brakes
Front wheels are 20x9 et45. Rears are 20x11-1/2 et71.
I'm lowered on B16 coilovers as well.
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08-01-2022, 03:13 PM
#178
08-01-2022, 04:49 PM
#179
Rennlist Member
It was absolutely fantastic. Iain was a pleasure to work with and the whole process went smoothly. Following remote logs, he sent me about three or four revisions which made the car perform flawlessly.
I should be getting around 500 hp and torque. I can’t compare this with the other tunes directly, but it’s my impression that these numbers may be higher. Somehow Iain is able to manage the horsepower and torque and balance it with heat production to still keep everything safe.
I am extremely happy with Litchfield, and recommend the tune to everyone.
I should be getting around 500 hp and torque. I can’t compare this with the other tunes directly, but it’s my impression that these numbers may be higher. Somehow Iain is able to manage the horsepower and torque and balance it with heat production to still keep everything safe.
I am extremely happy with Litchfield, and recommend the tune to everyone.
The following 2 users liked this post by devtec:
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08-01-2022, 05:34 PM
#180
It was absolutely fantastic. Iain was a pleasure to work with and the whole process went smoothly. Following remote logs, he sent me about three or four revisions which made the car perform flawlessly.
I should be getting around 500 hp and torque. I can’t compare this with the other tunes directly, but it’s my impression that these numbers may be higher. Somehow Iain is able to manage the horsepower and torque and balance it with heat production to still keep everything safe.
I am extremely happy with Litchfield, and recommend the tune to everyone.
I should be getting around 500 hp and torque. I can’t compare this with the other tunes directly, but it’s my impression that these numbers may be higher. Somehow Iain is able to manage the horsepower and torque and balance it with heat production to still keep everything safe.
I am extremely happy with Litchfield, and recommend the tune to everyone.