911 T owners club
05-19-2020, 10:12 PM
#3421
The 992s really create a conundrum with the previous 911 lineup offerings. I don’t see them making another T because it really wasn’t a successful marketing model. The demand ended up not being there with half being poorly specced by dealerships which people didn’t buy. Then there is the lightweight package supposedly going to be available up and down the 992 line alleviating a need for the T. I would even say the GTS moniker May be in peril since all 992s are wide bodies and the S can be had with a power kit. Obviously the GTS will stick around until Porsche sees the financial benefits of not offering it because it’s no longer unique and they can charge $15k outright for the power kit...which EVERYONE will buy.
all this said and the T will be a collectible but not like a speedster or GT. Instead, my prediction is it will be more like a 987 Cayman R or Boxster Spyder. Retains value because of its complete driving package...you know that “special sauce” that Porsche ends up getting just right on certain cars as talked about in the new Panorama Mag.
I promise you that all of our Porsche will be collectibles in 60 years...because finding gas will be impossible and cars naturally dwindle with age. But who cares, I’ll be over 100 and dead but will have enjoyed every second of ownership of my T.
all this said and the T will be a collectible but not like a speedster or GT. Instead, my prediction is it will be more like a 987 Cayman R or Boxster Spyder. Retains value because of its complete driving package...you know that “special sauce” that Porsche ends up getting just right on certain cars as talked about in the new Panorama Mag.
I promise you that all of our Porsche will be collectibles in 60 years...because finding gas will be impossible and cars naturally dwindle with age. But who cares, I’ll be over 100 and dead but will have enjoyed every second of ownership of my T.
05-19-2020, 10:29 PM
#3422
Rennlist Member
Could (NA for certain market segments post 2026...) is very different than will not (NA for 992 and beyond)...‘The 4-litre engine in the GTS can’t be rotated through 180 degrees to fit in the 911. We will not see them again (naturally aspirated engines in the Carrera models). I’m sorry about that.
‘The R&D costs are too high to develop such an engine for the Carrera. And producing individual engines for different markets such as China, the US and Europe isn’t viable. The Carrera will always be turbocharged for the future.’
vice"At the moment, we only see a turbo solution. Naturally aspirated, not really,” he laments
"Now maybe you are in the right part of the world, in Australia. This is a European solution. It [natural aspiration] could work in other parts of the world, as Australia is close to the US regulations that could work in the future."
So could we still have a naturally aspirated engine?
"Technically, yes. If you offered something different, but this is market size, investment, volume, you know. There will come a day, within the next 10 years, when we have to say 'Now this is the last of its kind."
That sounds very much like the death knell for natural aspiration. That affects how the 911 would appear in future, and redefines its essence. Where would the 911 go if Walliser had a clean sheet of paper to work with?
"Maybe I would do it a little more sporty than the 992. If I had a wish, I would make it maybe smaller."
Wouldn't we all, me bru!
KEEP drivin' 'em.
SS
‘The R&D costs are too high to develop such an engine for the Carrera. And producing individual engines for different markets such as China, the US and Europe isn’t viable. The Carrera will always be turbocharged for the future.’
vice"At the moment, we only see a turbo solution. Naturally aspirated, not really,” he laments
"Now maybe you are in the right part of the world, in Australia. This is a European solution. It [natural aspiration] could work in other parts of the world, as Australia is close to the US regulations that could work in the future."
So could we still have a naturally aspirated engine?
"Technically, yes. If you offered something different, but this is market size, investment, volume, you know. There will come a day, within the next 10 years, when we have to say 'Now this is the last of its kind."
That sounds very much like the death knell for natural aspiration. That affects how the 911 would appear in future, and redefines its essence. Where would the 911 go if Walliser had a clean sheet of paper to work with?
"Maybe I would do it a little more sporty than the 992. If I had a wish, I would make it maybe smaller."
Wouldn't we all, me bru!
KEEP drivin' 'em.
SS
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SFZ GT3 (09-20-2020)
05-19-2020, 10:53 PM
#3423
a tip 993 is not as desirable as a manual in market.
a PDK 997.2 GTS is a great car, but brings a lot less money compared to the manual 997 GTS.
nothing wrong with a PDK T, but yes - the manual T is likely the desired version down the line IMO.
a PDK 997.2 GTS is a great car, but brings a lot less money compared to the manual 997 GTS.
nothing wrong with a PDK T, but yes - the manual T is likely the desired version down the line IMO.
05-20-2020, 10:35 AM
#3424
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Manual gear boxes will be desirable until the possibility that the population reaches a point where almost no one knows how to drive them.
05-20-2020, 01:08 PM
#3425
Rennlist Member
not sure i agree with that logic. maybe they'll be desirable until the possibility that the population loses facility of their arms. it's not like it will suddenly be impossible to learn how to drive a manual. lol.
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Das14444 (05-28-2020)
05-20-2020, 02:16 PM
#3426
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/...-drive-manual/
https://www.carmax.com/articles/stick-shift-index
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matthewlesko (12-20-2020)
05-20-2020, 02:34 PM
#3428
Three Wheelin'
I think the assumption here is that if you can't drive a manual, you won't buy one. I'm fairly certain that if you are an enthusiast and you can't drive a manual, you will want to learn. The ones that aren't enthusiast aren't potential buyers anyway. The demographic that will want to buy a manual today is going to be the same demographic in the future. I have a friend that bought a car he really wanted (in manual) even though he didn't know how to drive manual. He bought it and learned on the way home. I don't recommend it, but hey, it worked out for him.
Also, in Europe this change will take much longer since most cars are still manual and most drivers have to learn manual to pass licensing tests.
Also, in Europe this change will take much longer since most cars are still manual and most drivers have to learn manual to pass licensing tests.
05-20-2020, 02:34 PM
#3429
Rennlist Member
Both my kids drive MT cars. I made both of them learn, and now they prefer it. Now when they drive an automatic, they say to me, "Dad, driving a car that shifts gears for you is soooo boring"
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SFZ GT3 (09-20-2020)
05-20-2020, 02:39 PM
#3430
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I think the assumption here is that if you can't drive a manual, you won't buy one. I'm fairly certain that if you are an enthusiast and you can't drive a manual, you will want to learn. The ones that aren't enthusiast aren't potential buyers anyway. The demographic that will want to buy a manual today is going to be the same demographic in the future. I have a friend that bought a car he really wanted (in manual) even though he didn't know how to drive manual. He bought it and learned on the way home. I don't recommend it, but hey, it worked out for him.
Also, in Europe this change will take much longer since most cars are still manual and most drivers have to learn manual to pass licensing tests.
Also, in Europe this change will take much longer since most cars are still manual and most drivers have to learn manual to pass licensing tests.
How old is your friend?
Most countries in Europe no longer require manual proficiency for licensing and the number of manual cars sold there is dropping faster there than here in the USA.
Mercedes, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc don't even make manual transmission cars anymore.
05-20-2020, 02:40 PM
#3431
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
05-20-2020, 02:45 PM
#3432
Three Wheelin'
If trends continue the manual demographic will continue to decrease. The numbers don't lie.
How old is your friend?
Most countries in Europe no longer require manual proficiency for licensing and the number of manual cars sold there is dropping faster there than here in the USA.
Mercedes, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc don't even make manual transmission cars anymore.
How old is your friend?
Most countries in Europe no longer require manual proficiency for licensing and the number of manual cars sold there is dropping faster there than here in the USA.
Mercedes, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc don't even make manual transmission cars anymore.
2. irrelevant, but was in his 20s or 30s at the time.
3. no argument here either, makes sense. Still the numbers are much higher than US. Dropping faster doesn't mean they are lower.
4. makes sense as well. Sales!
All the points you make have nothing to do with an enthusiast buying a manual and I don't disagree with any of them.
05-20-2020, 02:52 PM
#3433
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
1. No argument there. Wasn't my point.
2. irrelevant, but was in his 20s or 30s at the time.
3. no argument here either, makes sense. Still the numbers are much higher than US. Dropping faster doesn't mean they are lower.
4. makes sense as well. Sales!
All the points you make have nothing to do with an enthusiast buying a manual and I don't disagree with any of them.
2. irrelevant, but was in his 20s or 30s at the time.
3. no argument here either, makes sense. Still the numbers are much higher than US. Dropping faster doesn't mean they are lower.
4. makes sense as well. Sales!
All the points you make have nothing to do with an enthusiast buying a manual and I don't disagree with any of them.
05-20-2020, 02:56 PM
#3434
Three Wheelin'
All of what I have written supports my original and only point. Which was/is that if the number enthusiast who can and want to drive a stick shift continues to decline then the desirability of a manual transmission cars will also decline. It is simple supply and demand. This isn't going to happen tomorrow but if trends continue it will happen in 10-15 years.
Your response was to my statement and you were defending your own.
05-20-2020, 05:26 PM
#3435
Drifting
