MM3.9GT3

As for the 488, by chasing McLaren, they forgot the soul of every Ferrari - the engine. A low option 458 (to keep the weight low) will trap the 1/4 mile close to 130 MPH.

Archimedes

You say that because you own one or because you read that in a stat sheet?

Because every real world review I've watched would say otherwise. Most say the engine is magnificent, turbo lag is non-existent and the 488 is a better handling car than the 458.

Drifting

you say that because you've driven both cars, or because....... "the reviews say otherwise"?

The two things that have distinguished Ferraris for decades are the engines and appearance of the cars. They've never been practical, inexpensive, or reliable. Now, all Ferrari has is their appearance.

I've driven both cars, and the 488 has less lag than any turbo car I've driven, which is a fantastic feat, but it's still not completely lag free. The 488 sounds better with a stock exhaust than any other turbo car. The 488 handling is better in many ways than the 458. Ferrari has certainly made an excellent turbo car....however, the 488 throttle still isn't as responsive as a 458, the 458 sounds much better than the 488, and the 488 is noticeably heavier than the 458 which you can feel when driving, particularly on a track.

If you want raw speed and fancy stats the 488 is much better than the 458. However, if you want character, sound, and light drivers car, then the 458 is superior to the 488.

If you're seriously considering a 488, you might as well consider a 991.2 GTS instead of the .2 GT3 allocation that you've been struggling to find. Very similar differences between a 991.2 GTS and a 991 GT3, and a 488 and 458.
A 991.2 GTS will likely be faster around most tracks than a GT3, but the GT3 has much more soul, character, and is a drivers car, not a sterile turbo rocketship like the .2 GTS or 488.

Archimedes

I know that's what all the cool kids are saying, i.e., that the NA cars have soul and the turbo cars are turds, but yet every unbiased review I've seen says the 488 is a better performer than the 458. I get the attraction to the 458 for a lot of folks, doesn't make it a better car. If I got serious, I'd drive them both, but my interest on paper leans to the 488.

And I have no interest in the .2 GTS. I'd do a powerkit 4S before I bought a GTS, but either way I'd have trouble driving a car that sounded like it was ****ting it's pants every time I accelerated.

Warren99

I thought all a GTS was is the regular car with a power kit and a few other options standard at a better price. There is a 4 GTS.

Seems like no one is disagreeing that performance wise the 488 is better, just that some prefer the more subjective characteristics of the 458.

robmypro

Is the lag caused by the turbos needing to spool up? If so, why don't they just give you a button that says "engage turbos" so they are pre-spooled? I am assuming that even if they were spinning at optimal speed, there would still be some lag?

I know there must be more to it. Because that solution would be way too easy.

MM3.9GT3

The 488 is a better performer. There is no question about it. But, I am not driving the car on the track. For road use, I prefer the 458, with the razor sharp throttle response, and the screaming 9000 rpm red-line.

All exhaust driven turbo engines have lag. It is significantly less than any other turbo car I have ever driven, but there is lag. People who say there is no lag either do not understand how a turbocharger works, or are reciting Ferrari marketing material.

Electric turbos can "almost" eliminate turbo lag, but the key word is almost.

From autoblog:

An electric turbo system, which includes an energy recovery system to provide power for the electric turbo, boosts efficiency between 15 and 20 percent, according to Audi. It also effectively eliminates turbo lag, the time it takes for turbo boost to build power to levels requested by the driver's right foot. Audi says its electric turbo needs only a quarter of a second to reach full boost.

MM3.9GT3

Just get the 812 Superfast and be done with it...

CAlexio

On a 488, on the left screen on the dash, you can scroll between a few menus, which show:
-boost
-turbo efficiency
-turbo responsiveness
You can see as you're higher in rpm, the responsiveness increase almost to 100%.. when you're above 3000ish rpm.. at those engine speeds, the 488 really has almost NA-like response. At lower revs, it's a hair's width away from feeling NA.. but the joy just ends very abruptly, and the whole exercise just feels.. artificial?

It's like someone launching you up the stairs and when you get there you realize there's nothing intersting on the second floor .. oh, and you made farting sounds to get there. It's very efficient, it's very fast... but yes the cliche' is true.. it's soulless. I've had 3-4 days on track with 458 Speciale, and 1 with 488... somehow the 458 felt lighter and not much slower... I'm not speaking from some nostalgic place but I'd take the 458 Speciale any day, and probably considering prices.. maybe a regular 458 over a 488. If turbo is the future, then fool me into thinking it's NA.. cause for now I don't want it.

Now HYBRID.. now we're talking. A few of us rennlisters are at Smoky's today, and today was our first track day. Spent the day driving and giving endless guest rides in 918 & 918 weissach... pardon my french, but godd@mn what a joy of a car. You get Hybrid torquefill, but still NA linear response. You rev to 9k rpm, but you pull like a vacuum tube from way low down in the range. It's like a turbo torque, but with none of the turbo drawbacks. Linear, revvy AND torquey, sound is all there.. fantastic.. perfectionz. yes in the long sweepers you can really feel the sheer mass of the beast wanting to pry the tires from the road.. an RS feels much nicer and more planted. but If they can make lighter batteries in the future.. this is the holy grail.

Nothing but nothing feels like an NA V8 which seems to have constant nitro bottle on it from the hybrid engine... nuts.. nuts!!. I owe my cleaning lady 2 sets of 918 tires because I shagged the hell out of them in the heat and with all that weight, but once you taste hybrid.. you don't want anything else. if you have the means to go hybrid, I highly suggest it. It's the t!ts.

Skip the turbo.. unless it's a mclaren.. in which case.. ugh.. ok..

robmypro

Thanks for the info. Sounds like my next GT3 will be the .2 hybrid model! I hear you about a turbo feeling artificial. My wife's 550 puts out 450 hp and the power delivery is just boring. At this point I won't even consider a sports car with a turbo. The character of the NA engine is just way better. But hybrid sounds awesome.

Those cars look awesome. Have a great time!

Archimedes

Too much coin and too hard to get from what I understand. If I don't get a GT3, I'll look at a lot of other options in the $100-200k range before I'd really think seriously about a Ferrari. Love the 488, but Ferrari as a whole really isn't my cup of tea. I like a lower profile car.

Archimedes

It is, but there are some things you can't remove from the GTS that I dislike and some things I would want that you can't add to a GTS. I'd build a power kit/RWS 4S, which is actually a potential backup plan if I don't get a GT3, though I still just can't get excited about the 3l turbo motor.

robmypro

I am with you. Heck, sometimes the attention my GT3 gets is awkward. No way i want more!

mcsmcs1

Funny you guys bitching and moaning about turbos, but you are all singing the praises of a 991 GT2 RS

robmypro

We are all just homers.