McLaren Success
#721
Rennlist Member
Ferraris have 7 year free maintenance, so $0.. much cheaper than a porsche if you can swing the Msrp and the depreciation. Also.. (just my 2c)... don't buy a 488.. it's just not the exciting car they make it out to be. Find a "slower" 458 used and rev the ***** off of it, or if you want turbo get a mclaren, which is a car with a chassis to actually match the engine.
#722
Because every real world review I've watched would say otherwise. Most say the engine is magnificent, turbo lag is non-existent and the 488 is a better handling car than the 458.
#723
Rennlist Member
The two things that have distinguished Ferraris for decades are the engines and appearance of the cars. They've never been practical, inexpensive, or reliable. Now, all Ferrari has is their appearance.
I've driven both cars, and the 488 has less lag than any turbo car I've driven, which is a fantastic feat, but it's still not completely lag free. The 488 sounds better with a stock exhaust than any other turbo car. The 488 handling is better in many ways than the 458. Ferrari has certainly made an excellent turbo car....however, the 488 throttle still isn't as responsive as a 458, the 458 sounds much better than the 488, and the 488 is noticeably heavier than the 458 which you can feel when driving, particularly on a track.
If you want raw speed and fancy stats the 488 is much better than the 458. However, if you want character, sound, and light drivers car, then the 458 is superior to the 488.
If you're seriously considering a 488, you might as well consider a 991.2 GTS instead of the .2 GT3 allocation that you've been struggling to find. Very similar differences between a 991.2 GTS and a 991 GT3, and a 488 and 458.
A 991.2 GTS will likely be faster around most tracks than a GT3, but the GT3 has much more soul, character, and is a drivers car, not a sterile turbo rocketship like the .2 GTS or 488.
#724
I know that's what all the cool kids are saying, i.e., that the NA cars have soul and the turbo cars are turds, but yet every unbiased review I've seen says the 488 is a better performer than the 458. I get the attraction to the 458 for a lot of folks, doesn't make it a better car. If I got serious, I'd drive them both, but my interest on paper leans to the 488.
And I have no interest in the .2 GTS. I'd do a powerkit 4S before I bought a GTS, but either way I'd have trouble driving a car that sounded like it was ****ting it's pants every time I accelerated.
And I have no interest in the .2 GTS. I'd do a powerkit 4S before I bought a GTS, but either way I'd have trouble driving a car that sounded like it was ****ting it's pants every time I accelerated.
#725
Racer
I know that's what all the cool kids are saying, i.e., that the NA cars have soul and the turbo cars are turds, but yet every unbiased review I've seen says the 488 is a better performer than the 458. I get the attraction to the 458 for a lot of folks, doesn't make it a better car. If I got serious, I'd drive them both, but my interest on paper leans to the 488.
And I have no interest in the .2 GTS. I'd do a powerkit 4S before I bought a GTS, but either way I'd have trouble driving a car that sounded like it was ****ting it's pants every time I accelerated.
And I have no interest in the .2 GTS. I'd do a powerkit 4S before I bought a GTS, but either way I'd have trouble driving a car that sounded like it was ****ting it's pants every time I accelerated.
Seems like no one is disagreeing that performance wise the 488 is better, just that some prefer the more subjective characteristics of the 458.
#726
Race Director
I know there must be more to it. Because that solution would be way too easy.
#727
Rennlist Member
I know that's what all the cool kids are saying, i.e., that the NA cars have soul and the turbo cars are turds, but yet every unbiased review I've seen says the 488 is a better performer than the 458. I get the attraction to the 458 for a lot of folks, doesn't make it a better car. If I got serious, I'd drive them both, but my interest on paper leans to the 488.
And I have no interest in the .2 GTS. I'd do a powerkit 4S before I bought a GTS, but either way I'd have trouble driving a car that sounded like it was ****ting it's pants every time I accelerated.
And I have no interest in the .2 GTS. I'd do a powerkit 4S before I bought a GTS, but either way I'd have trouble driving a car that sounded like it was ****ting it's pants every time I accelerated.
Is the lag caused by the turbos needing to spool up? If so, why don't they just give you a button that says "engage turbos" so they are pre-spooled? I am assuming that even if they were spinning at optimal speed, there would still be some lag?
I know there must be more to it. Because that solution would be way too easy.
I know there must be more to it. Because that solution would be way too easy.
Electric turbos can "almost" eliminate turbo lag, but the key word is almost.
From autoblog:
An electric turbo system, which includes an energy recovery system to provide power for the electric turbo, boosts efficiency between 15 and 20 percent, according to Audi. It also effectively eliminates turbo lag, the time it takes for turbo boost to build power to levels requested by the driver's right foot. Audi says its electric turbo needs only a quarter of a second to reach full boost.
#728
Rennlist Member
I know that's what all the cool kids are saying, i.e., that the NA cars have soul and the turbo cars are turds, but yet every unbiased review I've seen says the 488 is a better performer than the 458. I get the attraction to the 458 for a lot of folks, doesn't make it a better car. If I got serious, I'd drive them both, but my interest on paper leans to the 488.
And I have no interest in the .2 GTS. I'd do a powerkit 4S before I bought a GTS, but either way I'd have trouble driving a car that sounded like it was ****ting it's pants every time I accelerated.
And I have no interest in the .2 GTS. I'd do a powerkit 4S before I bought a GTS, but either way I'd have trouble driving a car that sounded like it was ****ting it's pants every time I accelerated.
#729
Race Director
Originally Posted by robmypro
Is the lag caused by the turbos needing to spool up? If so, why don't they just give you a button that says "engage turbos" so they are pre-spooled? I am assuming that even if they were spinning at optimal speed, there would still be some lag?
I know there must be more to it. Because that solution would be way too easy.
I know there must be more to it. Because that solution would be way too easy.
-boost
-turbo efficiency
-turbo responsiveness
You can see as you're higher in rpm, the responsiveness increase almost to 100%.. when you're above 3000ish rpm.. at those engine speeds, the 488 really has almost NA-like response. At lower revs, it's a hair's width away from feeling NA.. but the joy just ends very abruptly, and the whole exercise just feels.. artificial?
It's like someone launching you up the stairs and when you get there you realize there's nothing intersting on the second floor .. oh, and you made farting sounds to get there. It's very efficient, it's very fast... but yes the cliche' is true.. it's soulless. I've had 3-4 days on track with 458 Speciale, and 1 with 488... somehow the 458 felt lighter and not much slower... I'm not speaking from some nostalgic place but I'd take the 458 Speciale any day, and probably considering prices.. maybe a regular 458 over a 488. If turbo is the future, then fool me into thinking it's NA.. cause for now I don't want it.
Now HYBRID.. now we're talking. A few of us rennlisters are at Smoky's today, and today was our first track day. Spent the day driving and giving endless guest rides in 918 & 918 weissach... pardon my french, but godd@mn what a joy of a car. You get Hybrid torquefill, but still NA linear response. You rev to 9k rpm, but you pull like a vacuum tube from way low down in the range. It's like a turbo torque, but with none of the turbo drawbacks. Linear, revvy AND torquey, sound is all there.. fantastic.. perfectionz. yes in the long sweepers you can really feel the sheer mass of the beast wanting to pry the tires from the road.. an RS feels much nicer and more planted. but If they can make lighter batteries in the future.. this is the holy grail.
Nothing but nothing feels like an NA V8 which seems to have constant nitro bottle on it from the hybrid engine... nuts.. nuts!!. I owe my cleaning lady 2 sets of 918 tires because I shagged the hell out of them in the heat and with all that weight, but once you taste hybrid.. you don't want anything else. if you have the means to go hybrid, I highly suggest it. It's the t!ts.
Skip the turbo.. unless it's a mclaren.. in which case.. ugh.. ok..
#730
Race Director
On a 488, on the left screen on the dash, you can scroll between a few menus, which show:
-boost
-turbo efficiency
-turbo responsiveness
You can see as you're higher in rpm, the responsiveness increase almost to 100%.. when you're above 3000ish rpm.. at those engine speeds, the 488 really has almost NA-like response. At lower revs, it's a hair's width away from feeling NA.. but the joy just ends very abruptly, and the whole exercise just feels.. artificial?
It's like someone launching you up the stairs and when you get there you realize there's nothing intersting on the second floor .. oh, and you made farting sounds to get there. It's very efficient, it's very fast... but yes the cliche' is true.. it's soulless. I've had 3-4 days on track with 458 Speciale, and 1 with 488... somehow the 458 felt lighter and not much slower... I'm not speaking from some nostalgic place but I'd take the 458 Speciale any day, and probably considering prices.. maybe a regular 458 over a 488. If turbo is the future, then fool me into thinking it's NA.. cause for now I don't want it.
Now HYBRID.. now we're talking. A few of us rennlisters are at Smoky's today, and today was our first track day. Spent the day driving and giving endless guest rides in 918 & 918 weissach... pardon my french, but godd@mn what a joy of a car. You get Hybrid torquefill, but still NA linear response. You rev to 9k rpm, but you pull like a vacuum tube from way low down in the range. It's like a turbo torque, but with none of the turbo drawbacks. Linear, revvy AND torquey, sound is all there.. fantastic.. perfectionz. yes in the long sweepers you can really feel the sheer mass of the beast wanting to pry the tires from the road.. an RS feels much nicer and more planted. but If they can make lighter batteries in the future.. this is the holy grail.
Nothing but nothing feels like an NA V8 which seems to have constant nitro bottle on it from the hybrid engine... nuts.. nuts!!. I owe my cleaning lady 2 sets of 918 tires because I shagged the hell out of them in the heat and with all that weight, but once you taste hybrid.. you don't want anything else. if you have the means to go hybrid, I highly suggest it. It's the t!ts.
Skip the turbo.. unless it's a mclaren.. in which case.. ugh.. ok..
-boost
-turbo efficiency
-turbo responsiveness
You can see as you're higher in rpm, the responsiveness increase almost to 100%.. when you're above 3000ish rpm.. at those engine speeds, the 488 really has almost NA-like response. At lower revs, it's a hair's width away from feeling NA.. but the joy just ends very abruptly, and the whole exercise just feels.. artificial?
It's like someone launching you up the stairs and when you get there you realize there's nothing intersting on the second floor .. oh, and you made farting sounds to get there. It's very efficient, it's very fast... but yes the cliche' is true.. it's soulless. I've had 3-4 days on track with 458 Speciale, and 1 with 488... somehow the 458 felt lighter and not much slower... I'm not speaking from some nostalgic place but I'd take the 458 Speciale any day, and probably considering prices.. maybe a regular 458 over a 488. If turbo is the future, then fool me into thinking it's NA.. cause for now I don't want it.
Now HYBRID.. now we're talking. A few of us rennlisters are at Smoky's today, and today was our first track day. Spent the day driving and giving endless guest rides in 918 & 918 weissach... pardon my french, but godd@mn what a joy of a car. You get Hybrid torquefill, but still NA linear response. You rev to 9k rpm, but you pull like a vacuum tube from way low down in the range. It's like a turbo torque, but with none of the turbo drawbacks. Linear, revvy AND torquey, sound is all there.. fantastic.. perfectionz. yes in the long sweepers you can really feel the sheer mass of the beast wanting to pry the tires from the road.. an RS feels much nicer and more planted. but If they can make lighter batteries in the future.. this is the holy grail.
Nothing but nothing feels like an NA V8 which seems to have constant nitro bottle on it from the hybrid engine... nuts.. nuts!!. I owe my cleaning lady 2 sets of 918 tires because I shagged the hell out of them in the heat and with all that weight, but once you taste hybrid.. you don't want anything else. if you have the means to go hybrid, I highly suggest it. It's the t!ts.
Skip the turbo.. unless it's a mclaren.. in which case.. ugh.. ok..
Those cars look awesome. Have a great time!
#731
Too much coin and too hard to get from what I understand. If I don't get a GT3, I'll look at a lot of other options in the $100-200k range before I'd really think seriously about a Ferrari. Love the 488, but Ferrari as a whole really isn't my cup of tea. I like a lower profile car.
#732
It is, but there are some things you can't remove from the GTS that I dislike and some things I would want that you can't add to a GTS. I'd build a power kit/RWS 4S, which is actually a potential backup plan if I don't get a GT3, though I still just can't get excited about the 3l turbo motor.
#733
Race Director
Too much coin and too hard to get from what I understand. If I don't get a GT3, I'll look at a lot of other options in the $100-200k range before I'd really think seriously about a Ferrari. Love the 488, but Ferrari as a whole really isn't my cup of tea. I like a lower profile car.
#735
Race Director