McLaren Success
04-17-2020, 09:12 PM
#4696
Covid 19 people financially freaking out aka a correction of a over inflated economy.
04-17-2020, 09:31 PM
#4697
Racer
I do think McLaren's strategy of releasing hypercars more frequently is going to drive down the resale value of them since they aren't really rare and as such won't be good investments for the bubble wrapping set. But as long as McLaren can sell every one they make, why not?
04-17-2020, 11:02 PM
#4698
Pro
Probably people who bought them to make a buck unloading them to free up some capital. Notice that 14 of the 22 have less than 500 miles on them. Similar thing with GT2RS really, about a third of them for sale have less than 500 miles on them.
I do think McLaren's strategy of releasing hypercars more frequently is going to drive down the resale value of them since they aren't really rare and as such won't be good investments for the bubble wrapping set. But as long as McLaren can sell every one they make, why not?
I do think McLaren's strategy of releasing hypercars more frequently is going to drive down the resale value of them since they aren't really rare and as such won't be good investments for the bubble wrapping set. But as long as McLaren can sell every one they make, why not?
04-18-2020, 10:29 AM
#4699
Probably people who bought them to make a buck unloading them to free up some capital. Notice that 14 of the 22 have less than 500 miles on them. Similar thing with GT2RS really, about a third of them for sale have less than 500 miles on them.
I do think McLaren's strategy of releasing hypercars more frequently is going to drive down the resale value of them since they aren't really rare and as such won't be good investments for the bubble wrapping set. But as long as McLaren can sell every one they make, why not?
I do think McLaren's strategy of releasing hypercars more frequently is going to drive down the resale value of them since they aren't really rare and as such won't be good investments for the bubble wrapping set. But as long as McLaren can sell every one they make, why not?
I did an article on this a few weeks back: https://karenable.com/too-much-of-a-good-thing/
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G.Irish (04-18-2020)
04-18-2020, 12:17 PM
#4700
Interesting info you guys put out. With porsche making a 918 sucessor, do you think they will run into the same problem? Any guesses on how many they would probably make since the "you-know-what" is happeneing? Autovisie posted a patent image on their site and I posted it here. Its in the 918 section titled "918 Sucessor"
04-19-2020, 03:45 PM
#4701
A tuned 570S came out on top of RaceChip tuned cars in this video.
BTW since I sold the 570S for the RS, I no longer need the RaceChip GTS tuning box and am selling it for only $1000. BTW adding this box doesn't void the warranty as the box can be removed w/o any trace as it doesn't flash the ECU with maps so the flash counter remains unchanged. Using simple hand tools, I did the install in about an hour.
BTW since I sold the 570S for the RS, I no longer need the RaceChip GTS tuning box and am selling it for only $1000. BTW adding this box doesn't void the warranty as the box can be removed w/o any trace as it doesn't flash the ECU with maps so the flash counter remains unchanged. Using simple hand tools, I did the install in about an hour.
04-19-2020, 04:22 PM
#4702
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04-19-2020, 04:48 PM
#4703
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
As background, I just posted a new article on the Collectability of all the McLarens to date: https://karenable.com/collectability-of-mclarens/
04-19-2020, 10:29 PM
#4704
As background, I just posted a new article on the Collectability of all the McLarens to date: https://karenable.com/collectability-of-mclarens/
04-20-2020, 04:23 PM
#4705
Racer
Completely agree. It's a combination of market saturation and a number of speculators now bailing. McLaren is now cutting back on the number and frequency because of exactly what's happening.
I did an article on this a few weeks back: https://karenable.com/too-much-of-a-good-thing/
I did an article on this a few weeks back: https://karenable.com/too-much-of-a-good-thing/
There's the track-only supercar/hypercar offering, that got started with Ferrari's FXX program. Aston Martin sorta copied it with the Vulcan, then we had the small disaster of the T125 (which I guess was copying Corse Clienti), then a smattering of other examples, some successful, like the P1 GTR and the 935. Then there's the one make series which only had Ferrari Challenge and GT3 Cup for a long time, then Lamborghini, Lotus, and Aston Martin tried it with varying degrees of success.
And now we have the hypercar free for all, which I agree, will probably result in some big financial losses or even bankruptcies for some of these factories. Wouldn't be surprised to see some of these cars get cancelled in the next few months. For Porsche I think maybe they push back a 918 successor a few years. In a few years there'll probably be a lot less players in that pool.
04-20-2020, 06:18 PM
#4706
Very good article! It's kind of weird to see different cash grab ideas spread through the high end market.
There's the track-only supercar/hypercar offering, that got started with Ferrari's FXX program. Aston Martin sorta copied it with the Vulcan, then we had the small disaster of the T125 (which I guess was copying Corse Clienti), then a smattering of other examples, some successful, like the P1 GTR and the 935. Then there's the one make series which only had Ferrari Challenge and GT3 Cup for a long time, then Lamborghini, Lotus, and Aston Martin tried it with varying degrees of success.
And now we have the hypercar free for all, which I agree, will probably result in some big financial losses or even bankruptcies for some of these factories. Wouldn't be surprised to see some of these cars get cancelled in the next few months. For Porsche I think maybe they push back a 918 successor a few years. In a few years there'll probably be a lot less players in that pool.
There's the track-only supercar/hypercar offering, that got started with Ferrari's FXX program. Aston Martin sorta copied it with the Vulcan, then we had the small disaster of the T125 (which I guess was copying Corse Clienti), then a smattering of other examples, some successful, like the P1 GTR and the 935. Then there's the one make series which only had Ferrari Challenge and GT3 Cup for a long time, then Lamborghini, Lotus, and Aston Martin tried it with varying degrees of success.
And now we have the hypercar free for all, which I agree, will probably result in some big financial losses or even bankruptcies for some of these factories. Wouldn't be surprised to see some of these cars get cancelled in the next few months. For Porsche I think maybe they push back a 918 successor a few years. In a few years there'll probably be a lot less players in that pool.
04-21-2020, 03:55 AM
#4707
My guess... More grip => higher g-forces => more suspension + brakes + cooling => more weight => more suspension + brakes +cooling => worse power-to-weight ratio. In general, everything has to be beefed up for higher stress with higher grip & g-forces. It's how Lotus added lightness with less grip. Then there are engine oiling and cooling issues with higher g-forces and more weight especially with turbos. There are many design feedback loops that get out of hand if one of these systems is off..
Hi ipse, I assume the monocoque is size-restrictive?
04-21-2020, 01:24 PM
#4708
As background, I just posted a new article on the Collectability of all the McLarens to date: https://karenable.com/collectability-of-mclarens/
I would love one if they came down to something bit more feasible.
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cadster (04-21-2020)
04-21-2020, 03:45 PM
#4709
My guess is Senna prices will drop before heading back north in a couple of years. Not sure how far down they will go though.
04-21-2020, 11:07 PM
#4710
People who have the cars and know what they are doing with them or live in that type of community don't rely on magazine lap times. (they are out and about doing it and know how the cars are set up, driver skill, conditions, etc.). It is a different reality in real life rather then magazine tests...
Go to his youtube channel and he has a 1:49 in a mclaren 600 LT at Button-willow, another guy did a 1:50 in a 12c with P-zero tires, a pista did a 1:49 and a mclaren 720s did a 1:48. (there is a gt3rs driver that consistently does 1:51 at buttonwillow. (13cw configuration which is the most common and popular config). These lap times are posted but part of HPDE days. (you have to be an insider to know whether to throw out these lap times (ie; non street tires, etc.). However, the lap times i posted in this paragraph are not on fastestlaps or other magazine tests. Real times by real drivers on street tires.
The 12c and gt3rs lap times (Laguna Seca which are the track records for both cars) aren't posted anywhere except for the owners youtube channels.
Go to his youtube channel and he has a 1:49 in a mclaren 600 LT at Button-willow, another guy did a 1:50 in a 12c with P-zero tires, a pista did a 1:49 and a mclaren 720s did a 1:48. (there is a gt3rs driver that consistently does 1:51 at buttonwillow. (13cw configuration which is the most common and popular config). These lap times are posted but part of HPDE days. (you have to be an insider to know whether to throw out these lap times (ie; non street tires, etc.). However, the lap times i posted in this paragraph are not on fastestlaps or other magazine tests. Real times by real drivers on street tires.
The 12c and gt3rs lap times (Laguna Seca which are the track records for both cars) aren't posted anywhere except for the owners youtube channels.
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yesyoucan (04-22-2020)