McLaren Success
04-21-2020, 11:18 PM
#4711
Interesting info you guys put out. With porsche making a 918 sucessor, do you think they will run into the same problem? Any guesses on how many they would probably make since the "you-know-what" is happeneing? Autovisie posted a patent image on their site and I posted it here. Its in the 918 section titled "918 Sucessor"
04-21-2020, 11:30 PM
#4712
If I had to guess, they learned their lesson and will delay the launch of a successor until a better economy. I wouldn’t hold my breath for any new VIP program.
04-22-2020, 12:04 AM
#4713
Drifting
McLaren
Lamborghini
Bugatti
Koenigsegg
Pagani
Aston Martin Valkyrie
Mercdes AMG Project One
Lotus Evija
Pininfarina Battista
Rimac
Gordon Murray T50
Hennessy Venom F5
Just a quick list above of OEMs making cars that hope to command 7 figure pricing... good luck!
04-22-2020, 11:08 AM
#4714
I think quite a few will end up getting cancelled.
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AlexCeres (04-22-2020)
04-22-2020, 12:53 PM
#4715
Burning Brakes
12c, 570S/600LT, 650S/675LT/720S they all can run much wider wheels and tires under the fenders with no rubbing.
I have witnessed a 720S on 19x11 and 19x13 and 315/345 true race tires. On this one, I think the front tires are too much, I would prefer a 295 there with a 10.5" wheel.
The Cup2R is available in sizes that would work in any of the mentioned McLarens if one wants to equip the car with street legal tires for a track day. Personally, I use track tires for track and street tires for street, my cars have at least two sets of wheels and I trailer to events no matter how close they are.
A 720S on proper wheels and tires outperforms anything made by Porsche as a street car on a racetrack.
The best bang for the buck, and my favorite McLarens right now are the 720S and 600LT, similarly priced. The 600LT is beautiful, but the 720S is the better car: more downforce, more torque, and superior suspension. Either one of these two is the perfect partner for a GT3RS (because everyone should own a GT3RS of any vintage).
The laptop cars (anything with electric power) are obsolete at launch time. So, no love for the P1 or anything hybrid down the road from McLaren or any other brand. The Senna is the car, and years ahead it will be rewarded by enthusiasts and collectors, an IC engine with a legendary nametag and performance that will be hard to match. I remember the negative comments about the McLaren F1, people said it was ugly, the center driving position was a mistake, it didn't have a McLaren engine (..they don't make engines), it didn't look exotic, etc.
I have witnessed a 720S on 19x11 and 19x13 and 315/345 true race tires. On this one, I think the front tires are too much, I would prefer a 295 there with a 10.5" wheel.
The Cup2R is available in sizes that would work in any of the mentioned McLarens if one wants to equip the car with street legal tires for a track day. Personally, I use track tires for track and street tires for street, my cars have at least two sets of wheels and I trailer to events no matter how close they are.
A 720S on proper wheels and tires outperforms anything made by Porsche as a street car on a racetrack.
The best bang for the buck, and my favorite McLarens right now are the 720S and 600LT, similarly priced. The 600LT is beautiful, but the 720S is the better car: more downforce, more torque, and superior suspension. Either one of these two is the perfect partner for a GT3RS (because everyone should own a GT3RS of any vintage).
The laptop cars (anything with electric power) are obsolete at launch time. So, no love for the P1 or anything hybrid down the road from McLaren or any other brand. The Senna is the car, and years ahead it will be rewarded by enthusiasts and collectors, an IC engine with a legendary nametag and performance that will be hard to match. I remember the negative comments about the McLaren F1, people said it was ugly, the center driving position was a mistake, it didn't have a McLaren engine (..they don't make engines), it didn't look exotic, etc.
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04-22-2020, 02:33 PM
#4716
Race Director
I do believe the Senna is a unique value in that the driving experience it offers is unlike any other road legal car, and it fits with an eternal ethos of lightweight and pure functionality. I drove one at launch and in comparison to a p1 I was familiar with, found it to be "next level" in terms of how little mass it had, how responsive it was. It did not reach the p1's manic acceleration potential, but it was close.. and then it murdered it under braking and ability to change direction almost as fast as a formula car.
I see the Senna as the modern F40.. relatively simple, all functionality, all emotional driving experience, zero frivolity. pure whip and chair. In that sense, it's an investment grade car which people will put miles on and enjoy trading for years. I agree the hybrids including the holy trinity with their complex batteries will not be as desirable.. especially as they are 1st gen experiments which will be surpassed by significantly lighter hybrid or pure electric options.. but this makes them all feel like exotic appliances. Collectors, and more significantly driving enthusiasts in future will want to own pure IC cars to enjoy with "relative" low cost.
I've driven many if not all the main hypercars (except koenigsegg) and i see the Senna as the peak unique experience which stands out in my mind for pure ballistic driving experience. It stands next to the Carrera GT which is more a puristic drive... maybe a manual Zonda but almost too expensive/rare to count. Sub $1M the Senna would be part of my collection for sure. If you want to feel what power to weight at its simplest form feels like, that's IT. mind blowing machine.
I see the Senna as the modern F40.. relatively simple, all functionality, all emotional driving experience, zero frivolity. pure whip and chair. In that sense, it's an investment grade car which people will put miles on and enjoy trading for years. I agree the hybrids including the holy trinity with their complex batteries will not be as desirable.. especially as they are 1st gen experiments which will be surpassed by significantly lighter hybrid or pure electric options.. but this makes them all feel like exotic appliances. Collectors, and more significantly driving enthusiasts in future will want to own pure IC cars to enjoy with "relative" low cost.
I've driven many if not all the main hypercars (except koenigsegg) and i see the Senna as the peak unique experience which stands out in my mind for pure ballistic driving experience. It stands next to the Carrera GT which is more a puristic drive... maybe a manual Zonda but almost too expensive/rare to count. Sub $1M the Senna would be part of my collection for sure. If you want to feel what power to weight at its simplest form feels like, that's IT. mind blowing machine.
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04-22-2020, 03:45 PM
#4717
Drifting
It's exactly that. P1 has narrow tires because of the limitation imposed by the 12C carbon tub. The Mclaren P1 was originally designed to be a Gruppe C tribute car, WITHOUT the battery hybrid package. When Mclaren discovered that Ferrari was planning on hybridizing its hypercar (a.k.a LaFerrari), they decided to add the hybrid system but quickly realized hybrid system couldn't quite fit within their existing architecture. Mclaren has been very creative in getting their hybrid system to fit in with the 12C tub, but if you look at it from an engineering perspective, you soon realize it wasn't planned properly. The P1 battery is positioned in the highest area of the car, which makes ZERO sense. If you look at the 918 or the LaFerrari battery pack position, it's always in the lowest part of the car to help with the COG.
The Mclaren P1 is certainly not the best example coming out of Woking to say the least. When Mclaren discovered that the 918 Spyder was lapping at the Top Gear track seconds faster than the P1 on the Pirelli Corsa tires, Mclaren went on the back foot again and had to quickly take an "off-the-shelf" Pirelli Trofeo R tire to compete. The Gen 1 Cup 2 tires from the 918 Spyder had a wear rating of 220 vs. a slick-like 80 tread wear rating on the Trofeo R. The Trofeo R tire was never homologated for the P1 and it was another bandage Mclaren had to put on because the tire wasn't even in the correct size. The Trofeo R tire that Mclaren put on the P1 was in 305 width, whereas the original Pirelli Corsa (which was certified for the P1 with the correct marking "MC1") comes in 315 size in the back.
The Mclaren P1 is certainly not the best example coming out of Woking to say the least. When Mclaren discovered that the 918 Spyder was lapping at the Top Gear track seconds faster than the P1 on the Pirelli Corsa tires, Mclaren went on the back foot again and had to quickly take an "off-the-shelf" Pirelli Trofeo R tire to compete. The Gen 1 Cup 2 tires from the 918 Spyder had a wear rating of 220 vs. a slick-like 80 tread wear rating on the Trofeo R. The Trofeo R tire was never homologated for the P1 and it was another bandage Mclaren had to put on because the tire wasn't even in the correct size. The Trofeo R tire that Mclaren put on the P1 was in 305 width, whereas the original Pirelli Corsa (which was certified for the P1 with the correct marking "MC1") comes in 315 size in the back.
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786 (04-30-2020)
04-22-2020, 04:25 PM
#4718
Rennlist Member
12c, 570S/600LT, 650S/675LT/720S they all can run much wider wheels and tires under the fenders with no rubbing.
A 720S on proper wheels and tires outperforms anything made by Porsche as a street car on a racetrack.
The best bang for the buck, and my favorite McLarens right now are the 720S and 600LT, similarly priced. The 600LT is beautiful, but the 720S is the better car: more downforce, more torque, and superior suspension. Either one of these two is the perfect partner for a GT3RS (because everyone should own a GT3RS of any vintage).
A 720S on proper wheels and tires outperforms anything made by Porsche as a street car on a racetrack.
The best bang for the buck, and my favorite McLarens right now are the 720S and 600LT, similarly priced. The 600LT is beautiful, but the 720S is the better car: more downforce, more torque, and superior suspension. Either one of these two is the perfect partner for a GT3RS (because everyone should own a GT3RS of any vintage).
04-22-2020, 04:41 PM
#4719
Drifting
No doubt. I hope the Gordon Murray car comes to fruition.
I think you are right about the Senna, provided no other high end manufacturer one-ups the car with a similar effort that is - crucially - non-hybrid. The Aston Valkyrie COULD be that car (and its degree of hybridization is de minimis) but it will command pricing that is multiples of the Senna price.
The laptop cars (anything with electric power) are obsolete at launch time. So, no love for the P1 or anything hybrid down the road from McLaren or any other brand. The Senna is the car, and years ahead it will be rewarded by enthusiasts and collectors, an IC engine with a legendary nametag and performance that will be hard to match. I remember the negative comments about the McLaren F1, people said it was ugly, the center driving position was a mistake, it didn't have a McLaren engine (..they don't make engines), it didn't look exotic, etc.
04-22-2020, 07:37 PM
#4720
Of this group:
Aston Martin Valkyrie
Mercdes AMG Project One
Lotus Evija
Pininfarina Battista
Rimac
Gordon Murray T50
Hennessy Venom F5
other than the Valkyrie which is basically a done deal, I give the T.50 the best chance of making it.
Aston Martin Valkyrie
Mercdes AMG Project One
Lotus Evija
Pininfarina Battista
Rimac
Gordon Murray T50
Hennessy Venom F5
other than the Valkyrie which is basically a done deal, I give the T.50 the best chance of making it.
04-22-2020, 08:39 PM
#4721
Drifting
Aston Martin Valkyrie - Will happen
Mercdes AMG Project One - There is uncertainty now, which stems from (1) significant delays related to the power unit and (2) the chance that Merc may depart F1 before the car sees the light of day
Lotus Evija - I think this car is stunning aesthetically, but I doubt they would be able to sell many
Pininfarina Battista - Nope
Rimac - Better chance than Pininfarina; Porsche owns a piece of Rimac and the company won’t fold
Gordon Murray T50 - Fingers crossed; Gordon wouldn’t compromise on the car’s ethos, so it will either happen as he intends or not at all
Hennessy Venom F5 - Goodbye
04-22-2020, 10:09 PM
#4722
12c, 570S/600LT, 650S/675LT/720S they all can run much wider wheels and tires under the fenders with no rubbing.
I have witnessed a 720S on 19x11 and 19x13 and 315/345 true race tires. On this one, I think the front tires are too much, I would prefer a 295 there with a 10.5" wheel.
The Cup2R is available in sizes that would work in any of the mentioned McLarens if one wants to equip the car with street legal tires for a track day. Personally, I use track tires for track and street tires for street, my cars have at least two sets of wheels and I trailer to events no matter how close they are.
A 720S on proper wheels and tires outperforms anything made by Porsche as a street car on a racetrack.
The best bang for the buck, and my favorite McLarens right now are the 720S and 600LT, similarly priced. The 600LT is beautiful, but the 720S is the better car: more downforce, more torque, and superior suspension. Either one of these two is the perfect partner for a GT3RS (because everyone should own a GT3RS of any vintage).
The laptop cars (anything with electric power) are obsolete at launch time. So, no love for the P1 or anything hybrid down the road from McLaren or any other brand. The Senna is the car, and years ahead it will be rewarded by enthusiasts and collectors, an IC engine with a legendary nametag and performance that will be hard to match. I remember the negative comments about the McLaren F1, people said it was ugly, the center driving position was a mistake, it didn't have a McLaren engine (..they don't make engines), it didn't look exotic, etc.
I have witnessed a 720S on 19x11 and 19x13 and 315/345 true race tires. On this one, I think the front tires are too much, I would prefer a 295 there with a 10.5" wheel.
The Cup2R is available in sizes that would work in any of the mentioned McLarens if one wants to equip the car with street legal tires for a track day. Personally, I use track tires for track and street tires for street, my cars have at least two sets of wheels and I trailer to events no matter how close they are.
A 720S on proper wheels and tires outperforms anything made by Porsche as a street car on a racetrack.
The best bang for the buck, and my favorite McLarens right now are the 720S and 600LT, similarly priced. The 600LT is beautiful, but the 720S is the better car: more downforce, more torque, and superior suspension. Either one of these two is the perfect partner for a GT3RS (because everyone should own a GT3RS of any vintage).
The laptop cars (anything with electric power) are obsolete at launch time. So, no love for the P1 or anything hybrid down the road from McLaren or any other brand. The Senna is the car, and years ahead it will be rewarded by enthusiasts and collectors, an IC engine with a legendary nametag and performance that will be hard to match. I remember the negative comments about the McLaren F1, people said it was ugly, the center driving position was a mistake, it didn't have a McLaren engine (..they don't make engines), it didn't look exotic, etc.
You could call it a pragmatic pairing. Beauty and the beast👍
04-23-2020, 12:44 AM
#4723
Rennlist Member
04-23-2020, 01:07 AM
#4724
