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Old 04-09-2020, 08:42 PM
  #4636  
AllAboutThatP
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Originally Posted by stanwine
Have you considered a 675? They are truly special, and feel different from the 600 which is also an a great car, Good luck
Yes, and I was tempted, but I like how the 600LT looks a lot better. Also, I was able to get a very good deal on a basically fully loaded, full carbon, including fender vents, roof scoop, senna seats, etc, for not much more than some of the lower priced 675LT’s are currently going for.
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Old 04-09-2020, 08:42 PM
  #4637  
C.J. Ichiban
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Originally Posted by RyanSD
Ok I must have sat in the standard as oppose to the large sized buckets. Im glad to know because it could change my mind about which one ill purchase. How are the senna seats?

I agree. What an awful seat that lamborghini designed. The most uncomfortable seat.

I will add that I get these are "Race cars" but I like to drive around the canyon and let certain family members enjoy them as well.

I really like the senna seats, but I am 6'1 195, normal build/torso/inseam and LOVE the P1 seats. The main issue for Senna seats is that people will scrunch various body parts getting in and out of the 600LT- especially a coupe. The 720 or Senna has the roof opening so you can get more 'vertical ingress' which allows you to plop down into the seat. The 600LT is more like getting into an Audi R8 or something with a super low roofline.

Senna seats are overkill unless you are 170-190 lbs and lean, and want to do lots of track days. they are good enough that you don't really need seat belts for lateral movement. they are super deep, and very grippy.

CJ's unofficial seat ranking for track days:

Senna Seats
P1 Seats
Recaro Pole Position
997 CF / 980 CGT seat
997.2 folding CF bucket seats
BMW M buckets (M4 GTS, etc)
996 recaro (alien head shape ) buckets
991 CF seat
Ferrari CF bucket (pista)
18 way seats (991/992)
McLaren Comfort Seats
wooden box
bed of nails
concrete shoes in lake eerie
Lambo seats

for road trips:
18 way
P1 seat
997.2 folding buckets
electric Ferrari Daytona seats (812)
BMW M seats
Recaro Pole Positions
Senna Seat
997 CF/ 980 cf seats
991 buckets
996 buckets
Covid 19
Lambo
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Old 04-09-2020, 08:44 PM
  #4638  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
if cost of entry is not a huge concern (they're similar priced to 991.2GT3RS weissach), the dynamics of the car are fantastic.

McLarens are binary build cars- either good or bad. Cars either serially have issues or not- this is based on issues inherent with a 'fixed assembly line'- meaning, a team of 1-3 people assemble the entire car. unlike Porsche, which has a moving assembly, where the car is assembled with semi-station workers...aka one guy puts in seats all day, one guy does dashboards, etc.

This means that when Billy and Ricky the new kids start building cars on the assembly line, they screw up over and over until getting good. By now, they MIGHT be better, more experienced, but the build quality of the mclarens in aggregate was BEST when they built less cars. When they hired more people, they brought in people new to the job/brand/etc to get production from 2000-2500 into the 4500-5000 cars per year range.

That being said- the later versions (non-launch) are much better than the initial batch cars- they figure it out as they go...even on cars like the senna which VIN 001-100 had one type of rear fender assembly, then suddenly they started changing the brackets because the first batch was too wobbly.

Things like that.

So- if you get a 600LT spider, it is the latest version of the 600LT, and should at that point be the better version. Surely the 620R project will be the best sports series car. The 675LT was relatively bulletproof compared to the 12C for instance...
Thank you for the info! When should we see 765Lt's on the road?

Originally Posted by Maverick787
Some had narrow which you may have sat in, see CJ’s post. The MAC seats non narrow I can drive all day long no problems. I’m 6’3 and have a ton of room, and perfect seating position. It’s the best carry over from the P1. I’ve had my 675 for close to a year, and it’s a fun drive, and don’t get me wrong my RS is a keeper. With that said the 675 has been one of the most reliable MAC’s only 1000 copies, and I’ve had zero issues. It’s the most fun I’ve had driving and I traded a 458 for the MAC which I say is the deal of the century. I’m not a brand ***** I try everyone, and my keepers are my RS and my 675LT the rest can kick rocks.
Good to hear its been reliable. I get worried about reliability. They look so good as well, was crossing shopping with a 488.
Old 04-09-2020, 08:46 PM
  #4639  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
I really like the senna seats, but I am 6'1 195, normal build/torso/inseam and LOVE the P1 seats. The main issue for Senna seats is that people will scrunch various body parts getting in and out of the 600LT- especially a coupe. The 720 or Senna has the roof opening so you can get more 'vertical ingress' which allows you to plop down into the seat. The 600LT is more like getting into an Audi R8 or something with a super low roofline.

Senna seats are overkill unless you are 170-190 lbs and lean, and want to do lots of track days. they are good enough that you don't really need seat belts for lateral movement. they are super deep, and very grippy.

CJ's unofficial seat ranking for track days:

Senna Seats
P1 Seats
Recaro Pole Position
997 CF / 980 CGT seat
997.2 folding CF bucket seats
BMW M buckets (M4 GTS, etc)
996 recaro (alien head shape ) buckets
991 CF seat
Ferrari CF bucket (pista)
18 way seats (991/992)
McLaren Comfort Seats
wooden box
bed of nails
concrete shoes in lake eerie

Lambo seats

for road trips:
18 way
P1 seat
997.2 folding buckets
electric Ferrari Daytona seats (812)
BMW M seats
Recaro Pole Positions
Senna Seat
997 CF/ 980 cf seats
991 buckets
996 buckets
Covid 19
Lambo
LOL the ranking. Thanks for the response. With my current life of moving back and forth its hard to do track days. Soon though
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Old 04-09-2020, 08:48 PM
  #4640  
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Originally Posted by AllAboutThatP
Yes, and I was tempted, but I like how the 600LT looks a lot better. Also, I was able to get a very good deal on a basically fully loaded, full carbon, including fender vents, roof scoop, senna seats, etc, for not much more than some of the lower priced 675LT’s are currently going for.
What color did you go for?
Old 04-09-2020, 08:51 PM
  #4641  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
I really like the senna seats, but I am 6'1 195, normal build/torso/inseam and LOVE the P1 seats. The main issue for Senna seats is that people will scrunch various body parts getting in and out of the 600LT- especially a coupe. The 720 or Senna has the roof opening so you can get more 'vertical ingress' which allows you to plop down into the seat. The 600LT is more like getting into an Audi R8 or something with a super low roofline.

Senna seats are overkill unless you are 170-190 lbs and lean, and want to do lots of track days. they are good enough that you don't really need seat belts for lateral movement. they are super deep, and very grippy.

CJ's unofficial seat ranking for track days:

Senna Seats
P1 Seats
Recaro Pole Position
997 CF / 980 CGT seat
997.2 folding CF bucket seats
BMW M buckets (M4 GTS, etc)
996 recaro (alien head shape ) buckets
991 CF seat
Ferrari CF bucket (pista)
18 way seats (991/992)
McLaren Comfort Seats
wooden box
bed of nails
concrete shoes in lake eerie
Lambo seats

for road trips:
18 way
P1 seat
997.2 folding buckets
electric Ferrari Daytona seats (812)
BMW M seats
Recaro Pole Positions
Senna Seat
997 CF/ 980 cf seats
991 buckets
996 buckets
Covid 19
Lambo
Lol, are the Lambo Carbon seats really that bad? I always wondered why the Huracan Performantes were so hard to find with the carbon seats.

I’m about 5’10” and a lean 185lbs, so hopefully the Senna seats fit me well. The LWBs I find very comfy in the RS.
Old 04-09-2020, 09:49 PM
  #4642  
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This is a little OT, but I’ve got about 4 track days with my 720 and still have a lot to learn. Running my MPS4S isn’t ideal and I’ll likely get a different set of tires just for the track. There are so many things I like about this car, but I’ve got the track bug now and I’m looking for something different. I plan to keep the 720, but just don’t want/need that much car/power for the track.

I really liked the 600LT, but I wanted something that will run hard and have a proven history and I plan to pick up a ‘19 GT3RS in the next few months. I wish I could have both as the sound and handling of the 600LT spider was like riding a go kart on steroids, very different than the 720. But for now, an RS will find room in my garage.

FWIW, I’m 6’4” 240 lbs. and just fit in the Senna seats. Surprisingly the Porsche CF buckets are a little more snug. Tried to squeeze into an Aventador SVJ...a big fat NOPE.



Old 04-10-2020, 12:01 AM
  #4643  
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I am afraid the McLaren Group - the holding company of which McLaren Applied Technology, McLaren Automotive, and McLaren Racing are subsidiaries - is in a bit of financial trouble at the moment.

The most recent available ownership breakdown of the group is as follows:

Bahraini Sovereign Wealth Fund (Mumtalakat) = ~56%
Mansour Ojjeh (TAG) = ~14%
Michael Latifi (Sofina Foods; father of Williams F1 debutant Nicholas Latifi) = ~10%
Minority Shareholders = ~20%

1. McLaren Group raises additional equity and confirms Paul Walsh as Executive Chairman

https://www.mclaren.com/group/news/a...tive-chairman/

Luxury automotive, motorsport and technology company McLaren Group has raised additional equity to support its long-term strategy. The Group has also confirmed Paul Walsh as Executive Chairman.

The existing, long-standing shareholders have provided £300m of equity to support the group and McLaren’s commitment to the brand’s strategy.

Paul Walsh brings a wealth of business experience to McLaren having worked at the FTSE 100 listed drinks company Diageo for more than 30 years, 13 of which he spent as Chief Executive Officer.

After successfully leading the reintegration of the McLaren Group, Shaikh Mohammed Bin Essa Al Khalifa, will become non-executive director and continue to support the Group’s ambitions.

Mr Walsh takes up his position at McLaren Group with immediate effect.

Paul Walsh, Executive Chairman, McLaren Group:

“I’m delighted to take up the position of Executive Chairman at McLaren Group, a remarkable British-based company that has built a reputation through a unique combination of modern luxury products alongside leading-edge technology applied on the racetrack and in businesses around the world.

“Shaikh Mohammed Bin Essa Al Khalifa has led a vital reintegration of the Group and I’m now looking forward to get working on the next phase of McLaren’s development.”

Shaikh Mohammed Bin Essa Al Khalifa, Non-Executive Director, McLaren Group:

“On behalf of all the shareholders, the Board and more than 4,000 talented people who work for McLaren around the world, I’d like to welcome Paul to the Group. He brings with him a vast wealth of experience which will be invaluable to the company.”
McLaren announced a substantial capital raise on 3/18/20, just days after the aborted Australian Grand Prix was set to take place. McLaren was the first domino to topple, after a team member tested positive for coronavirus, ultimately leading to the cancellation of the race. News reports mentioned Zak Brown withdrawing from investor meetings to meet with other F1 team bosses overnight on 3/12-3/13 to discuss whether or not the Grand Prix could take place. Obviously the capital raise took place.

The bolded quote above is quite telling, in my opinion. I believe that the most recent capital raise took place at a down round valuation, which would spur the existing, long-term shareholders to participate, because not doing so would lead to dilution of their existing investment stake. Otherwise, why would you commit more capital to the McLaren Group in the midst of an incipient global pandemic?

2. McLaren Elva: 804bhp roadster now limited to 249 examples

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...d-249-examples
McLaren has announced that it will produce just 249 examples of the ultra-exclusive Elva speedster, down from a planned 399 units.

The decision, confirmed by CEO Mike Flewitt in an interview with The Australian Financial Review, is said to have been taken as a means of enhancing the car's rarity value. "The feedback from our customers is that they think the car should be more exclusive than that, so we’ve capped it at 249," he said.

Autocar's sources suggest, however, that McLaren over-estimated market demand for the model, hence the decision to reduce production numbers. The similarly conceived Aston Martin Speedster is limited to 88 examples, while Ferrari will build just 250 examples each of its SP1 and SP2 Monza roadsters.
McLaren had to cut production of the forthcoming Elva, which is probably the highest margin vehicle they’ve ever made; their other Ultimate Series cars were much more expensive to develop (P1, Senna, Speedtail). Jethro Bovingdon referred to it as a “720S Spyder” on a recent episode of Chris Harris’s podcast. Whoops!

3. McLaren to Furlough Staff, F1 Drivers Volunteer for Pay Cut

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mclar...r-for-pay-cut/

McLaren Formula 1 drivers Carlos Sainz Jr and Lando Norris volunteered for a pay cut as the team became the first to commit to furloughing staff amid the coronavirus crisis.

F1 and its teams are discussing how to protect themselves amid the financial pressure caused by the global COVID-19 outbreak, which has cancelled or postponed the first eight rounds of the 2020 season and threatens to impact more.

Wider measures, including delaying new technical rules to 2022 and rolling over most of this year’s car designs to 2021, have already been taken to shore up the medium-term future of the respective teams.

However, McLaren is the first team to take short-term action to protect its staff.

It will take advantage of the UK government’s coronavirus job retention scheme which allows employers to pay the lower of 80% of an employee’s regular wage, or £2,500 per month.

Though it is not clear how many staff will be placed on furlough, McLaren has confirmed to The Race that the process will be undertaken across the company.

The process could last three months. It is unclear when the F1 season will resume – the first race still on the schedule is the Canadian Grand Prix but its mid-June date appears unlikely to remain.

Staff members who are not furloughed, from McLaren’s executive tier down, will take a pay decrease. This includes CEO Zak Brown and its F1 drivers.

The Race understands Sainz and Norris, who joined the team last year, volunteered for reductions in line with other staff when they were informed of the situation.

“The McLaren Group is temporarily furloughing a number of employees as part of wider cost-cutting measures due to the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic on its business,” a McLaren statement given to The Race read.

“These measures are focused on protecting jobs in the short-term to ensure our employees return to full-time work as the economy recovers.”

F1 teams face a serious threat, especially smaller organisations, because the prize money they receive from F1 is a big part of their income.

That prize money is taken from F1’s overall revenue, which is set to be reduced dramatically because of how many races are going to eventually be cancelled. Fewer races will also mean reduced sponsorship and TV broadcaster income.

No other team has taken the same action as McLaren yet, although it is expected.

Red Bull team boss Christian Horner told the BBC earlier this week “we’re looking at what the government have communicated” and that “all the HR managers between the teams are talking so there is as much consistency as possible”.

F1 is in the midst of establishing other cost-cutting measures in the short- and longer-term.

There are discussions about lowering the $175m cost cap that will be introduced next season, although that appears to still face opposition from some teams.

In the short-term, Racing Point’s Otmar Szafnauer has targeted a potential saving of up to £30m if the revised 2020 calendar is slashed effectively in half.

“Some of the costs are sunk already and we’re looking at how much money can we save if we only do a 10 or 12 race season,” Szafnauer told Sky.

“Every team’s different. I still think we spend the least out of everybody.

“I think we can save in the region of £25m to £30m if we only do 10 or 12 races.”
McLaren announces staff furlough on 4/1/20, first F1 team to do so.

4. Zak Brown: McLaren boss says F1 needs big changes to survive

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/52175140

Here’s the key quote from this one:


"While we're a well-funded racing team," he said, "everyone has their limits - and as it relates to F1, it is no secret we lose a lot of money and my shareholders want value creation out of F1. So just letting the losses widen is not an option.

"I don't have an unlimited cheque book, so it was the responsible thing to do, and quite frankly I am disappointed but not surprised that many teams haven't already followed suit.

"I know some have, but some haven't. And I think there is a real danger in F1 that we as an industry can put our head in the sand on topics and now is not the time to put your head in the sand."
Hmm... this is post-capital raise.

5. McLaren: Ferrari and Red Bull Playing with Fire

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mclar...ing-with-fire/


McLaren Formula 1 boss Zak Brown says Ferrari and Red Bull are “playing with fire” if they block a dramatic reduction of the budget cap being introduced next year.

F1’s 10 teams are broadly in agreement to reduce the cost cap from $175m as planned to $150m as part of a raft of measures being introduced to help the championship navigate the financial impact of the global health crisis.

But Brown has proposed a limit as low as $100m, with a compromise of around $130m considered fair, which other teams support but Ferrari and Red Bull pushed back on.

They argue that bigger teams should be afford a higher cost cap because they have to incur R&D and infrastructure costs to manufacture parts that smaller teams buy from them at a lower price.

“Without 10 teams, or at least nine teams, you don’t really have Formula 1,” Brown said in a Sky Sports F1 interview.

“It’s really a couple teams that need to be very careful, because I think they’re kind of playing with fire, so to speak.

“It takes a full grid to have a sport.

“So if they continue to have the sport be unsustainable and a couple teams lose interest or financially are not able to participate anymore, then they’re going to be racing against themselves.”

He did not name Ferrari and Red Bull specifically, but Mercedes is known to be willing to go below $150m if it is an effort to make meaningful savings for all teams and not just competitive opportunism.

Brown also made it clear which teams he was referring to when he praised Mercedes’ parent company Daimler for doing “an excellent job recognising the situation that we’re in, so you can deduct who the other two teams are”.

He added: “It’s a marketing platform for those two teams so I understand why they want to keep the fiscal balance where it is now.

“But in sport you kind of want to think everyone can fight fairly and may the best team win.”

Mercedes and Red Bull won every title available in the previous decade, with McLaren’s last championship coming with Lewis Hamilton in 2008.

It has not won the constructors’ title since 1998 and slipped in competitiveness since its last victory in 2012, thanks to a combination of the rise of Mercedes’ works team, an ill-fated partnership with Honda and McLaren’s own shortcomings.

However, McLaren is optimistic its recent recovery under the team leadership of Andreas Seidl will help it re-establish itself among F1’s elite, and Brown believes the likes of Ferrari and Red Bull should have the “confidence” to take others on with an even financial playing field.

“It’s like a heavyweight who only wants to fight middleweights,” he said. “Come on.

“These are great teams, they should be prepared to fight everyone on more equal terms and I think that’s what fans want in sport.”

Brown pointed to the domination of F1 in recent years from Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull, which have won every race between them since Kimi Raikkonen’s 2013 Australian Grand Prix victory for Lotus, and the reliance on chaotic races to make F1 unpredictable.

He compared that to how IndyCar’s spec chassis allows for more varied race winners and podium finishers, but does not stop the best teams dominating the championship.

“We shouldn’t have to rely exclusively on [major variables] to have an unpredictable race,” said Brown.

“It should be that one of the teams that isn’t an A-team can have a better strategy or catch the safety car at the right time, or capitalise on someone having a bad pitstop.

“If you ask the fans, which is who our ultimate customers are, they want to see races like Brazil and Germany [in 2019].

“We shouldn’t have to rely on torrential downpours to create that level of excitement.”
McLaren’s Zak Brown continues to agitate for a significantly lowered cost cap in F1.

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Old 04-10-2020, 02:49 AM
  #4644  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
I really like the senna seats, but I am 6'1 195, normal build/torso/inseam and LOVE the P1 seats. The main issue for Senna seats is that people will scrunch various body parts getting in and out of the 600LT- especially a coupe. The 720 or Senna has the roof opening so you can get more 'vertical ingress' which allows you to plop down into the seat. The 600LT is more like getting into an Audi R8 or something with a super low roofline.

Senna seats are overkill unless you are 170-190 lbs and lean, and want to do lots of track days. they are good enough that you don't really need seat belts for lateral movement. they are super deep, and very grippy.

CJ's unofficial seat ranking for track days:

Senna Seats
P1 Seats
Recaro Pole Position
997 CF / 980 CGT seat
997.2 folding CF bucket seats
BMW M buckets (M4 GTS, etc)
996 recaro (alien head shape ) buckets
991 CF seat
Ferrari CF bucket (pista)
18 way seats (991/992)
McLaren Comfort Seats
wooden box
bed of nails
concrete shoes in lake eerie
Lambo seats

for road trips:
18 way
P1 seat
997.2 folding buckets
electric Ferrari Daytona seats (812)
BMW M seats
Recaro Pole Positions
Senna Seat
997 CF/ 980 cf seats
991 buckets
996 buckets
Covid 19
Lambo
Good to see your humor back on here!
Old 04-10-2020, 04:35 AM
  #4645  
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It is interesting of how much the prices for 570S and 600LT differ


You can find 600LT one year old with up to 10 000 km on the clock for 200K euro in Germany:

https://suchen.mobile.de/auto-insera...295737977.html



at the same time 570s one year old car up to 10 000 km is in the range of 125K euro:

https://suchen.mobile.de/auto-insera...295242926.html


quite a big difference!
Old 04-10-2020, 07:10 AM
  #4646  
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Originally Posted by AllAboutThatP
Lol, are the Lambo Carbon seats really that bad? I always wondered why the Huracan Performantes were so hard to find with the carbon seats.

I’m about 5’10” and a lean 185lbs, so hopefully the Senna seats fit me well. The LWBs I find very comfy in the RS.
They are extremely hard without adequate padding. Truly lightweight in that sense. Most people find them to be uncomfortable in the rear because of this over durations of drive, but not always true as some have posted here and on more Lamborghini-focused sites. I found it odd at first that most Performantes did not have them but I can understand the general philosophy. The "comfort" ones are nice and fairly form-fitting, just not as high of bolsters and not as thin of a shell as the typical carbon seat.
Old 04-10-2020, 11:06 AM
  #4647  
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Originally Posted by RyanSD
I have the LWB in my RS and theyre comfortable for a few hours. Theyre not as bad as the ones in the mclaren from what I remember testing them out. i miss my Gt3 with the comfort seats.
I have the CF sport bucket seats in 2018 GT3 and P1 bucket seats in 600LT. Very similar but 600LT seems a little lower in car and more comfortable. On the track, they are definitely better in terms of keeping you from moving around. If you don't intend to track the car, you should get the adjustable sport seats in the 600LT. They will definitely be more comfortable for more people and easier to get in and out of.
Old 04-10-2020, 11:17 AM
  #4648  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
if cost of entry is not a huge concern (they're similar priced to 991.2GT3RS weissach), the dynamics of the car are fantastic.

McLarens are binary build cars- either good or bad. Cars either serially have issues or not- this is based on issues inherent with a 'fixed assembly line'- meaning, a team of 1-3 people assemble the entire car. unlike Porsche, which has a moving assembly, where the car is assembled with semi-station workers...aka one guy puts in seats all day, one guy does dashboards, etc.

This means that when Billy and Ricky the new kids start building cars on the assembly line, they screw up over and over until getting good. By now, they MIGHT be better, more experienced, but the build quality of the mclarens in aggregate was BEST when they built less cars. When they hired more people, they brought in people new to the job/brand/etc to get production from 2000-2500 into the 4500-5000 cars per year range.

That being said- the later versions (non-launch) are much better than the initial batch cars- they figure it out as they go...even on cars like the senna which VIN 001-100 had one type of rear fender assembly, then suddenly they started changing the brackets because the first batch was too wobbly.

Things like that.

So- if you get a 600LT spider, it is the latest version of the 600LT, and should at that point be the better version. Surely the 620R project will be the best sports series car. The 675LT was relatively bulletproof compared to the 12C for instance...
CJ, what are you hearing about McLaren deliveries? In late March they suspended manufacturing until the end of April. I have a 620R on order that was scheduled for delivery on April 15. It was likely in production at the time of the closure. I'm told by my dealer that they have been told that any pending orders for 570s or 720s that are not in production will be cancelled and they intend to concentrate production for rest of the year on Elva and 765LT. No real word on 620R, but it is possible that they don't build the planned 350. Since my car was in production, I'm sure it will be delivered, but dealer is not sure what happens after that.
Old 04-10-2020, 01:02 PM
  #4649  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
Senna seats are overkill unless you are 170-190 lbs and lean, and want to do lots of track days. they are good enough that you don't really need seat belts for lateral movement. they are super deep, and very grippy.

CJ's unofficial seat ranking for track days:

Senna Seats
P1 Seats
Recaro Pole Position
997 CF / 980 CGT seat
997.2 folding CF bucket seats
BMW M buckets (M4 GTS, etc)
996 recaro (alien head shape ) buckets
991 CF seat
Ferrari CF bucket (pista)
18 way seats (991/992)
McLaren Comfort Seats
wooden box
bed of nails
concrete shoes in lake eerie
Lambo seats

for road trips:
18 way
P1 seat
997.2 folding buckets
electric Ferrari Daytona seats (812)
BMW M seats
Recaro Pole Positions
Senna Seat
997 CF/ 980 cf seats
991 buckets
996 buckets
Covid 19
Lambo
Love the Senna seats. My seat ranking is much shorter:

Recaro P1300 GT LW
McLaren Senna
997.1 CS/980 CGT

The rest are far too compromised IMO.
Old 04-10-2020, 01:04 PM
  #4650  
hf1
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Hypothetically, if McLaren goes belly up, then what happens with the warranty, service, maintenance, parts, usability, and values of the current Macs on the road?



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