OT: AMG GT R
04-21-2017, 04:58 PM
#316
Crazy low price if Ring time is legit!
04-21-2017, 09:09 PM
#319
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Have you been to MBWorld forum and read the disastrous launch and quality issues of the AMG GT-S? The "First Edition" AMG GT-S had all sorts of quality and reliability issues.
AMG is no longer the same AMG quality and build they used to have. AMG sold whatever dignity and soul they have by practically slapping the AMG badge on every imaginable model they produce at the production line.
Yes in paper the GT-R looks good, and yes in paper for now. Not everything that glitters is gold. Not because it is cheaper you buy it. My family have been a Mercedes Benz owner since the 1950s and personally have owned three AMGs and my current and last AMG on hand is the C63 Edition-507. "First Adopters" get into all sorts of issues for most brand but the current flagship of Mercedes Benz AMG which is the AMG GT lineup has been nothing but pure headache. A few may have slipped to the cracks as trouble free but a great number of them for the average cost of $150K is no fun when you have these kind of issues. In fact one owners there who owns the "Fastest" Mercedes Benz is a testimony how problematic his "First Edition" AMG GT-S has been for him. The owner owns most of the "Black Series" collection of AMG.What did he do? He dumped his AMG GTS like a rotten hot potato.
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
AMG is no longer the same AMG quality and build they used to have. AMG sold whatever dignity and soul they have by practically slapping the AMG badge on every imaginable model they produce at the production line.
Yes in paper the GT-R looks good, and yes in paper for now. Not everything that glitters is gold. Not because it is cheaper you buy it. My family have been a Mercedes Benz owner since the 1950s and personally have owned three AMGs and my current and last AMG on hand is the C63 Edition-507. "First Adopters" get into all sorts of issues for most brand but the current flagship of Mercedes Benz AMG which is the AMG GT lineup has been nothing but pure headache. A few may have slipped to the cracks as trouble free but a great number of them for the average cost of $150K is no fun when you have these kind of issues. In fact one owners there who owns the "Fastest" Mercedes Benz is a testimony how problematic his "First Edition" AMG GT-S has been for him. The owner owns most of the "Black Series" collection of AMG.What did he do? He dumped his AMG GTS like a rotten hot potato.
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
04-23-2017, 02:33 PM
#321
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Sport Auto magazine (the bible) tells the car had special Michelin tires for their record lap. The record-setting tires are still street legal and are available for price of 3950 EUR per set, ouch!
To make things difficult, these special tires are also Michelin Cup2s, but they are totally different model compared to the ordinary Cup2's the car comes with. Bit silly that Mercedes does not tell about these tires anywhere in their marketing materials.
The press car was also dyno'd at 619PS instead of 585PS. +34hp always welcomed...
To make things difficult, these special tires are also Michelin Cup2s, but they are totally different model compared to the ordinary Cup2's the car comes with. Bit silly that Mercedes does not tell about these tires anywhere in their marketing materials.
The press car was also dyno'd at 619PS instead of 585PS. +34hp always welcomed...
04-23-2017, 02:48 PM
#322
Sport Auto magazine (the bible) tells the car had special Michelin tires for their record lap. The record-setting tires are still street legal and are available for price of 3950 EUR per set, ouch!
To make things difficult, these special tires are also Michelin Cup2s, but they are totally different model compared to the ordinary Cup2's the car comes with. Bit silly that Mercedes does not tell about these tires anywhere in their marketing materials.
The press car was also dyno'd at 619PS instead of 585PS. +34hp always welcomed...
To make things difficult, these special tires are also Michelin Cup2s, but they are totally different model compared to the ordinary Cup2's the car comes with. Bit silly that Mercedes does not tell about these tires anywhere in their marketing materials.
The press car was also dyno'd at 619PS instead of 585PS. +34hp always welcomed...
04-23-2017, 02:49 PM
#323
Sport Auto magazine (the bible) tells the car had special Michelin tires for their record lap. The record-setting tires are still street legal and are available for price of 3950 EUR per set, ouch!
To make things difficult, these special tires are also Michelin Cup2s, but they are totally different model compared to the ordinary Cup2's the car comes with. Bit silly that Mercedes does not tell about these tires anywhere in their marketing materials.
The press car was also dyno'd at 619PS instead of 585PS. +34hp always welcomed...
To make things difficult, these special tires are also Michelin Cup2s, but they are totally different model compared to the ordinary Cup2's the car comes with. Bit silly that Mercedes does not tell about these tires anywhere in their marketing materials.
The press car was also dyno'd at 619PS instead of 585PS. +34hp always welcomed...
04-23-2017, 02:51 PM
#324
Sport Auto magazine (the bible) tells the car had special Michelin tires for their record lap. The record-setting tires are still street legal and are available for price of 3950 EUR per set, ouch!
To make things difficult, these special tires are also Michelin Cup2s, but they are totally different model compared to the ordinary Cup2's the car comes with. Bit silly that Mercedes does not tell about these tires anywhere in their marketing materials.
The press car was also dyno'd at 619PS instead of 585PS. +34hp always welcomed...
To make things difficult, these special tires are also Michelin Cup2s, but they are totally different model compared to the ordinary Cup2's the car comes with. Bit silly that Mercedes does not tell about these tires anywhere in their marketing materials.
The press car was also dyno'd at 619PS instead of 585PS. +34hp always welcomed...
04-23-2017, 03:14 PM
#325
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From their Supertest article that is out now.
They additionally mention record-tires are 10mm wider and stiffer and reduced tread depth compared to normal Cup2's.
Speed difference on Hockenheim with special tires and normal Cup2's was 1.0 seconds in this GTR Supertest. (1.06.4 vs 1.07.4). Solid times.
As a reference back in the day 991RS was slower at 1.08.5 but that was with older different driver behind the wheel. However, with the same new driver Christian G. like with the GTR, they posted a very low 1.05.8 lap time with Manthey-modded 991RS only on Cup2s. Unfortunately I don't know the mods but I would assume at least lightweight wheels and Manthey suspension etc, and the base version being a very lightweight RS (li-on, PCCB, lightweight lights, radio/ac delete etc).
They additionally mention record-tires are 10mm wider and stiffer and reduced tread depth compared to normal Cup2's.
Speed difference on Hockenheim with special tires and normal Cup2's was 1.0 seconds in this GTR Supertest. (1.06.4 vs 1.07.4). Solid times.
As a reference back in the day 991RS was slower at 1.08.5 but that was with older different driver behind the wheel. However, with the same new driver Christian G. like with the GTR, they posted a very low 1.05.8 lap time with Manthey-modded 991RS only on Cup2s. Unfortunately I don't know the mods but I would assume at least lightweight wheels and Manthey suspension etc, and the base version being a very lightweight RS (li-on, PCCB, lightweight lights, radio/ac delete etc).
04-24-2017, 02:54 AM
#326
From their Supertest article that is out now.
They additionally mention record-tires are 10mm wider and stiffer and reduced tread depth compared to normal Cup2's.
Speed difference on Hockenheim with special tires and normal Cup2's was 1.0 seconds in this GTR Supertest. (1.06.4 vs 1.07.4). Solid times.
As a reference back in the day 991RS was slower at 1.08.5 but that was with older different driver behind the wheel. However, with the same new driver Christian G. like with the GTR, they posted a very low 1.05.8 lap time with Manthey-modded 991RS only on Cup2s. Unfortunately I don't know the mods but I would assume at least lightweight wheels and Manthey suspension etc, and the base version being a very lightweight RS (li-on, PCCB, lightweight lights, radio/ac delete etc).
They additionally mention record-tires are 10mm wider and stiffer and reduced tread depth compared to normal Cup2's.
Speed difference on Hockenheim with special tires and normal Cup2's was 1.0 seconds in this GTR Supertest. (1.06.4 vs 1.07.4). Solid times.
As a reference back in the day 991RS was slower at 1.08.5 but that was with older different driver behind the wheel. However, with the same new driver Christian G. like with the GTR, they posted a very low 1.05.8 lap time with Manthey-modded 991RS only on Cup2s. Unfortunately I don't know the mods but I would assume at least lightweight wheels and Manthey suspension etc, and the base version being a very lightweight RS (li-on, PCCB, lightweight lights, radio/ac delete etc).
- How was the car dyno'ed? We know Maha is the standard and that it needs to be loaded properly and run for more than a 10-second pull (heat soaking down to its "true" HP number). Can you confirm it was "properly dynoed"?
- Do you have a guess about how 1 second difference at Hockenheim translates to N-Ring times (example + 10 seconds)?
Great intel nonetheless.
04-24-2017, 02:59 PM
#327
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04-24-2017, 06:05 PM
#328
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Kaizu, thanks for the insight. Questions:
- How was the car dyno'ed? We know Maha is the standard and that it needs to be loaded properly and run for more than a 10-second pull (heat soaking down to its "true" HP number). Can you confirm it was "properly dynoed"?
- Do you have a guess about how 1 second difference at Hockenheim translates to N-Ring times (example + 10 seconds)?
Great intel nonetheless.
- How was the car dyno'ed? We know Maha is the standard and that it needs to be loaded properly and run for more than a 10-second pull (heat soaking down to its "true" HP number). Can you confirm it was "properly dynoed"?
- Do you have a guess about how 1 second difference at Hockenheim translates to N-Ring times (example + 10 seconds)?
Great intel nonetheless.
Speaking on Hockenheim vs Ring times, I did a rough comparison with same pilot:
Pilot: Horst von Saurma
997 GT2 RS vs 997 GT2:
- Hockenheim 1.4 sec slower and Ring 9 sec slower
So yeah, something like bit less 10 sec not a bad guess for 1.0 sec slower time on Hockenheim.
That would make the car perform around 7:20 at the Ring with normal Cup2's, which is same as the 991 GT3 RS factory claim (yet the factory claim is always bit difficult to reach by journalists)
All in all in terms of performance AMG GT R and 991 GT3 RS seem to similar in terms of lap times, for example on another magazine test on Nurburgring GP track GT R was 0.1 sec slower (around 1.35 laps) than GT3 RS, though unclear which tires the GT R had.
And is it silly to calculate and estimate street car times? Yes it is, but always nice to understand more in detail about the performance of the cars, single record laps don't tell full picture.
04-24-2017, 06:32 PM
#329
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Yes they use MAHA there.
Speaking on Hockenheim vs Ring times, I did a rough comparison with same pilot:
Pilot: Horst von Saurma
997 GT2 RS vs 997 GT2:
- Hockenheim 1.4 sec slower and Ring 9 sec slower
So yeah, something like bit less 10 sec not a bad guess for 1.0 sec slower time on Hockenheim.
That would make the car perform around 7:20 at the Ring with normal Cup2's, which is same as the 991 GT3 RS factory claim (yet the factory claim is always bit difficult to reach by journalists)
All in all in terms of performance AMG GT R and 991 GT3 RS seem to similar in terms of lap times, for example on another magazine test on Nurburgring GP track GT R was 0.1 sec slower (around 1.35 laps) than GT3 RS, though unclear which tires the GT R had.
And is it silly to calculate and estimate street car times? Yes it is, but always nice to understand more in detail about the performance of the cars, single record laps don't tell full picture.
Speaking on Hockenheim vs Ring times, I did a rough comparison with same pilot:
Pilot: Horst von Saurma
997 GT2 RS vs 997 GT2:
- Hockenheim 1.4 sec slower and Ring 9 sec slower
So yeah, something like bit less 10 sec not a bad guess for 1.0 sec slower time on Hockenheim.
That would make the car perform around 7:20 at the Ring with normal Cup2's, which is same as the 991 GT3 RS factory claim (yet the factory claim is always bit difficult to reach by journalists)
All in all in terms of performance AMG GT R and 991 GT3 RS seem to similar in terms of lap times, for example on another magazine test on Nurburgring GP track GT R was 0.1 sec slower (around 1.35 laps) than GT3 RS, though unclear which tires the GT R had.
And is it silly to calculate and estimate street car times? Yes it is, but always nice to understand more in detail about the performance of the cars, single record laps don't tell full picture.
04-24-2017, 07:35 PM
#330
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/hockenheim-short