911R Driving Impressions
12-26-2016, 06:36 PM
#211
I have yet to drive the 991R. Seems like a great and very rewarding car to drive. Hope to drive one sooner than later.
I prefer the 997rs version over the 991rs, the reason is that I feel that the power of the 997.2rs is well suited to the chassi. Still gives me a little white knuckles/ sweaty palms when pushed on road and track.
I'm very excited about the 991gt2rs, having high hopes that it will have a bit more RS feel. The 991rs is a great car but it really feels like it can handle more HP and therefore create a little more sweaty palm feel.
I prefer the 997rs version over the 991rs, the reason is that I feel that the power of the 997.2rs is well suited to the chassi. Still gives me a little white knuckles/ sweaty palms when pushed on road and track.
I'm very excited about the 991gt2rs, having high hopes that it will have a bit more RS feel. The 991rs is a great car but it really feels like it can handle more HP and therefore create a little more sweaty palm feel.
12-26-2016, 08:24 PM
#212
Interesting reading some diverse viewpoints – thank you for posting.
A few thoughts on control weights…
While the GT4 is a fantastic car, and unbeatable for the money – there are a few things that could be better about the car. Gearing is too tall, engine lacks the manic response at high rpm, and the control weights are a little uneven. The clutch is heavy, while the steering is light, and so is the gearshift. In this regard, the CGT is better than the GT4 because all controls are consistently heavy. 997 RS cars are also better because everything is heavy too.
And the 911R is better because everything is consistently light. The lightness of the 911R’s controls took me aback at first, being used to much more meaty feeling cars. But now with over 3k km on the car, the lightness of the controls fits with the lightweight feel of the entire car - the responsiveness of the chassis, the effortless way the engine dominates the car making it feel overpowered.
And I would guess that for anyone used to the meaty old-school race car feeling of the 997 RS cars, it will take some time to get used to, and fully appreciate the lightweight road going hot-rod spirit of 911R.
A few thoughts on control weights…
While the GT4 is a fantastic car, and unbeatable for the money – there are a few things that could be better about the car. Gearing is too tall, engine lacks the manic response at high rpm, and the control weights are a little uneven. The clutch is heavy, while the steering is light, and so is the gearshift. In this regard, the CGT is better than the GT4 because all controls are consistently heavy. 997 RS cars are also better because everything is heavy too.
And the 911R is better because everything is consistently light. The lightness of the 911R’s controls took me aback at first, being used to much more meaty feeling cars. But now with over 3k km on the car, the lightness of the controls fits with the lightweight feel of the entire car - the responsiveness of the chassis, the effortless way the engine dominates the car making it feel overpowered.
And I would guess that for anyone used to the meaty old-school race car feeling of the 997 RS cars, it will take some time to get used to, and fully appreciate the lightweight road going hot-rod spirit of 911R.
I found the GT4 a little stolid at sensible speeds; you had to be on the edge of grip for it to feel light and alive. Then it felt absolutely brilliant but I needed to know the road very well to go that hard. I agree with your comments on it's gearing and top end response but found, in contrast, the steering to be a little too heavy (in an electronic rather than unassisted way), which contributed to the stolid feel. It was heavier than a 997 RS's. I wonder if the EPAS is adjustable and our GT4s were set differently?
12-27-2016, 01:03 AM
#213
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thanks BusDriver, combining this with other comments I feel like I'm getting a good sense of the differences between the R and 997 RS. Now I'd love to have both!
I found the GT4 a little stolid at sensible speeds; you had to be on the edge of grip for it to feel light and alive. Then it felt absolutely brilliant but I needed to know the road very well to go that hard. I agree with your comments on it's gearing and top end response but found, in contrast, the steering to be a little too heavy (in an electronic rather than unassisted way), which contributed to the stolid feel. It was heavier than a 997 RS's. I wonder if the EPAS is adjustable and our GT4s were set differently?
I found the GT4 a little stolid at sensible speeds; you had to be on the edge of grip for it to feel light and alive. Then it felt absolutely brilliant but I needed to know the road very well to go that hard. I agree with your comments on it's gearing and top end response but found, in contrast, the steering to be a little too heavy (in an electronic rather than unassisted way), which contributed to the stolid feel. It was heavier than a 997 RS's. I wonder if the EPAS is adjustable and our GT4s were set differently?
To me, the GT4's steering is not as light as that of the 911R but still feels light to me. Big difference is the steering response - the 911R turns in much better on stock chassis settings than the GT4 with settings dialed in for maximum turn-in. That must be RWS magic.
It would be interesting to hear from those with better GT4 vs 997 RS experience as I haven't driven a 997 RS back to back with a GT4.
12-27-2016, 02:46 AM
#214
Race Director
Spent today with siblings & father driving around in silver manual Porsche's around LA, taking advantage of low traffic, unusually clear skies after two days of rain, and the ability to hop between p-machines of different eras. I'll skip the individual descriptions as I don't want to go too OT, but let me say that the 981 Spyder's shifter is simply sublime. After dealing with a dodgy beck 550 cable shifter which allows for gear selection only when it feels like it, and the c2s's shifter which has a notchy quality to it.. getting back into my Spyder is pure hedonism.
I simply don't believe those who claim they've never pushed the sacriligeous sport button to enable autoblip. Bullllsh!t.. you've tried it and you love it. And further, you know that you'll never ever be able to downshift as smoothly with your heel-toe technique no matter how much you practice. The autoblip is simply perfect, you can fly from 6th to 3rd without skipping any in between, firing off three rifle bolt downshifts while prepping for the upcoming turn, with full focus on your braking. You can bemoan or laugh at the technology.. but if you love manuals and you want them to hang around, you have to appreciate this fantastic tech which enables you to have control and full engagement with your modern and very fast machine, while allowing you to keep at least slightly more up to speed with a pdk. I think the autoblip is a genius addition to the old manual, and a necessary one in order to allow control over modern fast-revving engines. I bet money that every single owner of an autoblip manual Porsche has tried it and uses it more than they admit on this forum. just accept that the computer is unbeatable, enjoy your heel-toe when you feel like it, but admit that when it's time to be fast and smooth.. the old noggin-foot connection is simple not as good.
rant over.. fantastic p-car family day in the memory banks... happy chrisnukkah to Rennlist
I simply don't believe those who claim they've never pushed the sacriligeous sport button to enable autoblip. Bullllsh!t.. you've tried it and you love it. And further, you know that you'll never ever be able to downshift as smoothly with your heel-toe technique no matter how much you practice. The autoblip is simply perfect, you can fly from 6th to 3rd without skipping any in between, firing off three rifle bolt downshifts while prepping for the upcoming turn, with full focus on your braking. You can bemoan or laugh at the technology.. but if you love manuals and you want them to hang around, you have to appreciate this fantastic tech which enables you to have control and full engagement with your modern and very fast machine, while allowing you to keep at least slightly more up to speed with a pdk. I think the autoblip is a genius addition to the old manual, and a necessary one in order to allow control over modern fast-revving engines. I bet money that every single owner of an autoblip manual Porsche has tried it and uses it more than they admit on this forum. just accept that the computer is unbeatable, enjoy your heel-toe when you feel like it, but admit that when it's time to be fast and smooth.. the old noggin-foot connection is simple not as good.
rant over.. fantastic p-car family day in the memory banks... happy chrisnukkah to Rennlist
12-27-2016, 03:13 AM
#215
Spent today with siblings & father driving around in silver manual Porsche's around LA, taking advantage of low traffic, unusually clear skies after two days of rain, and the ability to hop between p-machines of different eras. I'll skip the individual descriptions as I don't want to go too OT, but let me say that the 981 Spyder's shifter is simply sublime. After dealing with a dodgy beck 550 cable shifter which allows for gear selection only when it feels like it, and the c2s's shifter which has a notchy quality to it.. getting back into my Spyder is pure hedonism.
I simply don't believe those who claim they've never pushed the sacriligeous sport button to enable autoblip. Bullllsh!t.. you've tried it and you love it. And further, you know that you'll never ever be able to downshift as smoothly with your heel-toe technique no matter how much you practice. The autoblip is simply perfect, you can fly from 6th to 3rd without skipping any in between, firing off three rifle bolt downshifts while prepping for the upcoming turn, with full focus on your braking. You can bemoan or laugh at the technology.. but if you love manuals and you want them to hang around, you have to appreciate this fantastic tech which enables you to have control and full engagement with your modern and very fast machine, while allowing you to keep at least slightly more up to speed with a pdk. I think the autoblip is a genius addition to the old manual, and a necessary one in order to allow control over modern fast-revving engines. I bet money that every single owner of an autoblip manual Porsche has tried it and uses it more than they admit on this forum. just accept that the computer is unbeatable, enjoy your heel-toe when you feel like it, but admit that when it's time to be fast and smooth.. the old noggin-foot connection is simple not as good.
rant over.. fantastic p-car family day in the memory banks... happy chrisnukkah to Rennlist
I simply don't believe those who claim they've never pushed the sacriligeous sport button to enable autoblip. Bullllsh!t.. you've tried it and you love it. And further, you know that you'll never ever be able to downshift as smoothly with your heel-toe technique no matter how much you practice. The autoblip is simply perfect, you can fly from 6th to 3rd without skipping any in between, firing off three rifle bolt downshifts while prepping for the upcoming turn, with full focus on your braking. You can bemoan or laugh at the technology.. but if you love manuals and you want them to hang around, you have to appreciate this fantastic tech which enables you to have control and full engagement with your modern and very fast machine, while allowing you to keep at least slightly more up to speed with a pdk. I think the autoblip is a genius addition to the old manual, and a necessary one in order to allow control over modern fast-revving engines. I bet money that every single owner of an autoblip manual Porsche has tried it and uses it more than they admit on this forum. just accept that the computer is unbeatable, enjoy your heel-toe when you feel like it, but admit that when it's time to be fast and smooth.. the old noggin-foot connection is simple not as good.
rant over.. fantastic p-car family day in the memory banks... happy chrisnukkah to Rennlist
CAlexio, you are indeed the most interesting man in the world.
Great pics - inspirational.
12-27-2016, 03:25 AM
#216
Race Director
Originally Posted by laranja
"I don't always drive stick, but when I do I prefer autoblip."
CAlexio, you are indeed the most interesting man in the world.
Great pics - inspirational.
CAlexio, you are indeed the most interesting man in the world.
Great pics - inspirational.
12-27-2016, 07:50 AM
#218
I tried autoblip in the GT4 but only because the gearing was so tall I needed to use 1st in hairpins, which felt unnatural. However with such a slick gearshift I soon reverted to flexing the ankle. There's no doubting autoblip is effective but I don't see the point of getting a manual only to forego half the process. For me it's unnecessary complication: extra circuitry, wiring and clutter of switches; more weight and things to go wrong and to remember what they're for. A bit like most cars having multiple settings for for throttle response, steering weight and so on, which often are either side of where they should be. Just get it right, keep it simple and minimise weight like Porsche used to do.
12-27-2016, 08:50 AM
#219
auto-blip R
"I simply don't believe those who claim they've never pushed the sacriligeous sport button to enable autoblip. Bullllsh!t.. you've tried it and you love it. And further, you know that you'll never ever be able to downshift as smoothly with your heel-toe technique no matter how much you practice."
No. I hate it. In fact, given the spirit of the 911R I'm surprised it exists in the car. I imagine that most of us old school drivers have tried "sport plus" (in my Spyder) or "sport" in the R for a shift or two just to see what it does. But if you've been driving a manual transmission as long as I have you find yourself competing with technology. I'm certain the auto-blip technology is faster than me. But I want to heel/toe, match revs myself. That's just the way I drive. That's what the R is all about.
No. I hate it. In fact, given the spirit of the 911R I'm surprised it exists in the car. I imagine that most of us old school drivers have tried "sport plus" (in my Spyder) or "sport" in the R for a shift or two just to see what it does. But if you've been driving a manual transmission as long as I have you find yourself competing with technology. I'm certain the auto-blip technology is faster than me. But I want to heel/toe, match revs myself. That's just the way I drive. That's what the R is all about.
12-27-2016, 09:11 AM
#220
Same here, and I've got no interest in a better autoblip. I've been driving and racing with heel and toe for 25 years, and I'd go as far as saying that the perfect on the limit trail brake, with synchronised heel and toe rev match, is about the most rewarding thing you can execute. It's worth the chase.
I don't really feel the need to boost the ego of my false internet name by saying I've never used it and never will, if that wasn't true. CAlexio - send me your address and I'll mail you the button ;-)
I don't really feel the need to boost the ego of my false internet name by saying I've never used it and never will, if that wasn't true. CAlexio - send me your address and I'll mail you the button ;-)
12-27-2016, 09:32 AM
#221
Race Director
I like having the ability to turn it off when I like but I am guilty of activating it on most occasions. I never felt it is not a true Manual with it in. Also- now that it has been discovered that the button also does more than rev-Match and also remaps the engine for better performance in the GT4 I wonder if it also does that on the "R"
12-27-2016, 09:45 AM
#222
I like having the ability to turn it off when I like but I am guilty of activating it on most occasions. I never felt it is not a true Manual with it in. Also- now that it has been discovered that the button also does more than rev-Match and also remaps the engine for better performance in the GT4 I wonder if it also does that on the "R"
I asked early on, and was told that in the R, the sport button is only for the autobblip and has no other effect on the car's performance. Maybe that's what they said about the Gt4 as well though..?
12-27-2016, 10:11 AM
#223
R Sport Button
I agree with Footsoldier that there seems no direct performance advantage from the "sport" button in the R. But artificially holding the motor at a higher RPM on upshift may prove a slight (torque) performance advantage when driving at 9+/10ths. Almost PDK like. I still won't use it. The RPM upshift hold feels and sounds really awkward. You can have my button too.
12-27-2016, 12:09 PM
#224
Drifting
"I simply don't believe those who claim they've never pushed the sacriligeous sport button to enable autoblip. Bullllsh!t.. you've tried it and you love it. And further, you know that you'll never ever be able to downshift as smoothly with your heel-toe technique no matter how much you practice."
No. I hate it. In fact, given the spirit of the 911R I'm surprised it exists in the car. I imagine that most of us old school drivers have tried "sport plus" (in my Spyder) or "sport" in the R for a shift or two just to see what it does. But if you've been driving a manual transmission as long as I have you find yourself competing with technology. I'm certain the auto-blip technology is faster than me. But I want to heel/toe, match revs myself. That's just the way I drive. That's what the R is all about.
No. I hate it. In fact, given the spirit of the 911R I'm surprised it exists in the car. I imagine that most of us old school drivers have tried "sport plus" (in my Spyder) or "sport" in the R for a shift or two just to see what it does. But if you've been driving a manual transmission as long as I have you find yourself competing with technology. I'm certain the auto-blip technology is faster than me. But I want to heel/toe, match revs myself. That's just the way I drive. That's what the R is all about.
12-27-2016, 12:58 PM
#225
Rennlist Member
I have driven a 997.2 GT3 and GT4 back to back. The auto blip is def very surprising and is something that you need to get used to. In the GT4, the clutch is lighter, steering is light while driving but feels heavier when you first drive off. Inputs are much easier and when you downshift it gives you a perfect rev match, I was screaming this is magical, but I still prefer to do it myself. You can downshift whenver you want and it will do the job, the owner of the GT4 even downshift to 1st when he drove me...When you get back into the 997, god it feels ancient. Clutch is heavy, the gearshift is more notchy and heavier. Took me a while to be comfortable driving the 997 again. The new platform is def way more refined, but not in a enthusiast way.
I have also tried the rev match on the M2, which works a little differently than the GT4. When you move gears, the computer sense which gear you are going into and before you engage the engine blips. So When I was driving along and I wanted to go into 5th and I slightly moved the lever a little too forward which the computer thought I was going into 3rd it downshifted. So I could move the gear lever around and not actually engage in gear and it will blip. The GT4 is a much better set up, it actually knows what gear you are going into and the response is better.
I have also tried the rev match on the M2, which works a little differently than the GT4. When you move gears, the computer sense which gear you are going into and before you engage the engine blips. So When I was driving along and I wanted to go into 5th and I slightly moved the lever a little too forward which the computer thought I was going into 3rd it downshifted. So I could move the gear lever around and not actually engage in gear and it will blip. The GT4 is a much better set up, it actually knows what gear you are going into and the response is better.