911R Driving Impressions
12-09-2016, 12:14 PM
#181
More to come........
I took delivery late Wednesday. We had a little party at Champion. Champagne, cake and a 911R. I say celebrate the celebrations in our lives.
I have too few miles to even say anything yet. But, again, I will try to give my most honest impressions soon.
I have too few miles to even say anything yet. But, again, I will try to give my most honest impressions soon.
12-10-2016, 11:10 AM
#184
Three Wheelin'
A few more comments…
Preuninger’s break-in recommendation is 5k rpm limit for the first 1000 km, then add 1k rpm. And every following 500km, add an additional 1k rpm. In the early days, most important to vary the rpm, not lug the engine, and avoid continuous high load operation. Also, as I mentioned earlier, after the first 500km the engine map changes to be a lot more aggressive – an insane bark at startup, and more aggressive throttle blips. At startup and idle, this thing reminds of a racing Ducati V-twin superbike.
The Sport button blips to smooths upshifts as well as downshifts. The only car that revs as quickly as an R with single-mass flywheel, is a Carrera GT. BTW, the GT4 engine has so much inertia that there is no comparison - I have never needed upshift blips in that car. And speaking of comparisons with the Carrera GT, the R sounds better inside and not as good from the outside, but still fantastic.
Compared to a current 991 GT3 RS, this car is a lot more special. Both for what it actually is, and for what it represents.
What it is, is a hot-rodded manual road-oriented version of the RS – lighter, slimmer, rawer, manual gears, light flywheel, etc. And from my experience of owning both cars, the R’s acceleration feels like that of a 550 hp RS. While the RS has the advantage of launch control and immediate gear shifts, the R accelerates noticeably harder within gear.
What it represents is, is what makes the R truly special. For me, the RS is simply the latest in a line of track weapons among which there is significant lineage in the form of every previous RS, and a number of alternatives – regular GT3, Speciale, 675 LT, etc. With the R, there is no previous version or obvious alternatives – if you want a raw hot-rod manual road weapon, there is nothing else even close. The R is almost as exciting as a CGT but a lot more fun without the grim reaper waiting to pounce at any wrong move.
The GT4 is a puppy, the CGT a lion, and the R a thoroughbred.
Preuninger’s break-in recommendation is 5k rpm limit for the first 1000 km, then add 1k rpm. And every following 500km, add an additional 1k rpm. In the early days, most important to vary the rpm, not lug the engine, and avoid continuous high load operation. Also, as I mentioned earlier, after the first 500km the engine map changes to be a lot more aggressive – an insane bark at startup, and more aggressive throttle blips. At startup and idle, this thing reminds of a racing Ducati V-twin superbike.
The Sport button blips to smooths upshifts as well as downshifts. The only car that revs as quickly as an R with single-mass flywheel, is a Carrera GT. BTW, the GT4 engine has so much inertia that there is no comparison - I have never needed upshift blips in that car. And speaking of comparisons with the Carrera GT, the R sounds better inside and not as good from the outside, but still fantastic.
Compared to a current 991 GT3 RS, this car is a lot more special. Both for what it actually is, and for what it represents.
What it is, is a hot-rodded manual road-oriented version of the RS – lighter, slimmer, rawer, manual gears, light flywheel, etc. And from my experience of owning both cars, the R’s acceleration feels like that of a 550 hp RS. While the RS has the advantage of launch control and immediate gear shifts, the R accelerates noticeably harder within gear.
What it represents is, is what makes the R truly special. For me, the RS is simply the latest in a line of track weapons among which there is significant lineage in the form of every previous RS, and a number of alternatives – regular GT3, Speciale, 675 LT, etc. With the R, there is no previous version or obvious alternatives – if you want a raw hot-rod manual road weapon, there is nothing else even close. The R is almost as exciting as a CGT but a lot more fun without the grim reaper waiting to pounce at any wrong move.
The GT4 is a puppy, the CGT a lion, and the R a thoroughbred.
Hope all is well with you. Enjoyed your thread a lot. This post is very well said and articulated. Thanks for sharing your insights and great experience with the 911R.
The 911R is everyone's (99.9%) dream car. It is indeed a well engineered car.
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
12-10-2016, 08:25 PM
#185
Wow! What an amazing experience. Thanks for sharing. I wonder how many Rs were delivered like this as opposed to being quietly shipped off in a car carrier. This is the way it should be-celebrating the best effort of Porsche!!
Jim
Jim
12-10-2016, 09:11 PM
#186
Nordschleife Master
12-10-2016, 11:21 PM
#187
GT Silver w/Green stripes for the WIN. I'm ready to pay MSRP for anyone w/buyer's remorse. 
12-11-2016, 01:26 AM
#188
911 R early driving impressions
Today at South Florida Toys 4 Tots Exotic Car Rally it rained heavily. My '14 C4 would have been a better driving choice but I kind of had no choice; everyone expected the R.
Then there's AP's break-in instructions. The car has too few miles to exceed 5000 RPM's. But my first thought is this; it doesn't feel like a street legal race car such as a 997.2 GT3 RS. Like BusDriver I think superbike. It's spry, immediate and raw. The motor revs like it was alive.
The clutch is so light it almost takes getting used to. The steering is possibly lighter than the Power Steering Plus in my C4. And unfortunately I always have the rarity, value and surrounding R nonsense in the back of my head while driving in traffic. Maybe that will fade.
I love the austerity of the car. I love the less is more of the car. I love the rear grill and badge. I love the "presence" of the car. The "clacking" of the lightweight flywheel is no louder than in the 997.2. And I'm just not comfortable with the sport button. I don't like the rev match downshift "Sport Plus" in my other cars and I really can't figure out what's going on with the rev hold upshift on the R.
Sometimes the car reminds me of what a contemporary 964 RS would be. But it's very much a 991. Just a 991 that some hot rod guys (from the sixties) might have spent a winter in their garage changing out a motor for 100 more hp and removing 200 lbs. of unnecessary crap. Maybe that was the thinking behind the original R in 1967? How good is it? I still don't know.
Then there's AP's break-in instructions. The car has too few miles to exceed 5000 RPM's. But my first thought is this; it doesn't feel like a street legal race car such as a 997.2 GT3 RS. Like BusDriver I think superbike. It's spry, immediate and raw. The motor revs like it was alive.
The clutch is so light it almost takes getting used to. The steering is possibly lighter than the Power Steering Plus in my C4. And unfortunately I always have the rarity, value and surrounding R nonsense in the back of my head while driving in traffic. Maybe that will fade.
I love the austerity of the car. I love the less is more of the car. I love the rear grill and badge. I love the "presence" of the car. The "clacking" of the lightweight flywheel is no louder than in the 997.2. And I'm just not comfortable with the sport button. I don't like the rev match downshift "Sport Plus" in my other cars and I really can't figure out what's going on with the rev hold upshift on the R.
Sometimes the car reminds me of what a contemporary 964 RS would be. But it's very much a 991. Just a 991 that some hot rod guys (from the sixties) might have spent a winter in their garage changing out a motor for 100 more hp and removing 200 lbs. of unnecessary crap. Maybe that was the thinking behind the original R in 1967? How good is it? I still don't know.
12-11-2016, 10:23 AM
#189
Instructor
Thread Starter
Hello BusDriver,
Hope all is well with you. Enjoyed your thread a lot. This post is very well said and articulated. Thanks for sharing your insights and great experience with the 911R.
The 911R is everyone's (99.9%) dream car. It is indeed a well engineered car.
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
Hope all is well with you. Enjoyed your thread a lot. This post is very well said and articulated. Thanks for sharing your insights and great experience with the 911R.
The 911R is everyone's (99.9%) dream car. It is indeed a well engineered car.
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
Today at South Florida Toys 4 Tots Exotic Car Rally it rained heavily. My '14 C4 would have been a better driving choice but I kind of had no choice; everyone expected the R.
Then there's AP's break-in instructions. The car has too few miles to exceed 5000 RPM's. But my first thought is this; it doesn't feel like a street legal race car such as a 997.2 GT3 RS. Like BusDriver I think superbike. It's spry, immediate and raw. The motor revs like it was alive.
The clutch is so light it almost takes getting used to. The steering is possibly lighter than the Power Steering Plus in my C4. And unfortunately I always have the rarity, value and surrounding R nonsense in the back of my head while driving in traffic. Maybe that will fade.
I love the austerity of the car. I love the less is more of the car. I love the rear grill and badge. I love the "presence" of the car. The "clacking" of the lightweight flywheel is no louder than in the 997.2. And I'm just not comfortable with the sport button. I don't like the rev match downshift "Sport Plus" in my other cars and I really can't figure out what's going on with the rev hold upshift on the R.
Sometimes the car reminds me of what a contemporary 964 RS would be. But it's very much a 991. Just a 991 that some hot rod guys (from the sixties) might have spent a winter in their garage changing out a motor for 100 more hp and removing 200 lbs. of unnecessary crap. Maybe that was the thinking behind the original R in 1967? How good is it? I still don't know.
Then there's AP's break-in instructions. The car has too few miles to exceed 5000 RPM's. But my first thought is this; it doesn't feel like a street legal race car such as a 997.2 GT3 RS. Like BusDriver I think superbike. It's spry, immediate and raw. The motor revs like it was alive.
The clutch is so light it almost takes getting used to. The steering is possibly lighter than the Power Steering Plus in my C4. And unfortunately I always have the rarity, value and surrounding R nonsense in the back of my head while driving in traffic. Maybe that will fade.
I love the austerity of the car. I love the less is more of the car. I love the rear grill and badge. I love the "presence" of the car. The "clacking" of the lightweight flywheel is no louder than in the 997.2. And I'm just not comfortable with the sport button. I don't like the rev match downshift "Sport Plus" in my other cars and I really can't figure out what's going on with the rev hold upshift on the R.
Sometimes the car reminds me of what a contemporary 964 RS would be. But it's very much a 991. Just a 991 that some hot rod guys (from the sixties) might have spent a winter in their garage changing out a motor for 100 more hp and removing 200 lbs. of unnecessary crap. Maybe that was the thinking behind the original R in 1967? How good is it? I still don't know.
12-25-2016, 06:20 PM
#191
Racer
Really enjoyed reading through folks' opinions, impressions etc and I wanted to share my own 0.02
Over the last 72ish hours I've been an especially lucky boy, having driven a 997.2 RS with a Sharkwerks exhaust + tune, 991 RS, and the 991 911R. I've also had quite a bit of seat time in a CGT on some awesome back roads that I know very well. I should qualify that none of these cars were mine
I have the least amount of time in the R compared to the rest of the cars - but that will change over the coming weeks I know. That being said, if I were offered an R at MSRP or maybe 20-30 over it would be worth it. With the hilarious markups, I'd go get a 991 RS instead every day of the week.
The 911R feels lighter through the wheel and the seat of my pants compared to the RS. I, however, don't think that it turns in with any more alacrity than the 991RS. The RS steering requires more effort, but that front end does ridiculous things that none of the 911's I've driven (save for the obvious answer of my Cup car) can mimic.
Once in the bend the RS will power out like no other. That's to be expected, wider stance, rubber, aero etc. Here is where the R I think is more fun. It wants to play with you and is willing to dance a bit. I made this joke with the owner of the R and the RS, "the R is happy to lead or let you lead as a dance partner. The RS requires you to lead otherwise it will lead you off the road..." Most if not all driving was done with everything off, btw.
We'll be playing with alignment in the R to see what we can do to the front end, but I suspect with the massive splitter, massive tires, etc it will be hard to match the front end of the RS. I'm sure it's possible to make the R better than factory though
The only thing I turned on was "sport" mode in the R. I read a bit of back and forth regarding the throttle blips on up shifts. The R in sport mode will blip and hold the RPM for the gear required, up or down. If you don't use sport mode, you have to do this to smoothly up shift. The fact that you have to do this feels (opinion!!) somewhat synthetic to me. Pretty much all of the modern drive by wire cars usually have a fraction of "throttle hang." Where when you come off the gas for 0.1-0.3s the throttle plate is partially open effectively holding revs or very gently dropping revs to make your shift smoother.
I get the feeling that in the "R" they just got rid of that, so without sport mode you have to rev match up shift and down shift. While it can make the car more involving, I found it to just be annoying when you weren't hustling the car around. Hence I used the worth synthetic. The flip side of that is that I do hate the throttle hang in my manual F10 M5, for example. It holds the rpm for WAY too long when you're grabbing gears, but in 997 generation GT cars I think Porsche had it set pretty perfectly...
I noticed the tuned 997.2RS has similar behavior where the throttle closed instantly so the motor quickly winds down. The stock throttle mapping doesn't do that from what I remember in my old RS...
Some folks were talking about the pulls feeling "harder" in the R versus the RS. With different gear ratios in each car and the PDK it's hard to say. Through some totally legal playing around on the streets accelerating to the speed limit of course, we found the RS won just about every which way. We never launched the cars to do brutal 0-60, more like various rolling 15-...speed limit, 40-...speed limit etc
The R does give you a different experience as you're doing a full throttle pull, because you're anticipating an upshift and playing the motions out in your head before you act - whereas in the RS you yawn, flick a finger and keep going...
Seeing 911R prices touching CGT prices, to me says if you have the means, go get a CGT. I can't wait to get more seat time in the R, but any time my friend opens the key box and offers anything - I'm instantly going for the CGT. It's not fair to compare the cars, but when you can buy a decent CGT for the asking price of some R's....the comparison is bound to happen but it just doesn't seem fair at all.
I hope we can remember 1) how lucky we are to be enjoying these toys 2) these are my somewhat well informed opinions (I actively race in a few different club level series and have been lucky enough to drive a lot of sick metal in anger) 3) we're lucky to have access to all of these and engage in a fun discussion about them!
Looking forward to seeing more opinions roll in - and as I get more seat time in the R I'm happy to share more thoughts...
Over the last 72ish hours I've been an especially lucky boy, having driven a 997.2 RS with a Sharkwerks exhaust + tune, 991 RS, and the 991 911R. I've also had quite a bit of seat time in a CGT on some awesome back roads that I know very well. I should qualify that none of these cars were mine
I have the least amount of time in the R compared to the rest of the cars - but that will change over the coming weeks I know. That being said, if I were offered an R at MSRP or maybe 20-30 over it would be worth it. With the hilarious markups, I'd go get a 991 RS instead every day of the week.
The 911R feels lighter through the wheel and the seat of my pants compared to the RS. I, however, don't think that it turns in with any more alacrity than the 991RS. The RS steering requires more effort, but that front end does ridiculous things that none of the 911's I've driven (save for the obvious answer of my Cup car) can mimic.
Once in the bend the RS will power out like no other. That's to be expected, wider stance, rubber, aero etc. Here is where the R I think is more fun. It wants to play with you and is willing to dance a bit. I made this joke with the owner of the R and the RS, "the R is happy to lead or let you lead as a dance partner. The RS requires you to lead otherwise it will lead you off the road..." Most if not all driving was done with everything off, btw.
We'll be playing with alignment in the R to see what we can do to the front end, but I suspect with the massive splitter, massive tires, etc it will be hard to match the front end of the RS. I'm sure it's possible to make the R better than factory though
The only thing I turned on was "sport" mode in the R. I read a bit of back and forth regarding the throttle blips on up shifts. The R in sport mode will blip and hold the RPM for the gear required, up or down. If you don't use sport mode, you have to do this to smoothly up shift. The fact that you have to do this feels (opinion!!) somewhat synthetic to me. Pretty much all of the modern drive by wire cars usually have a fraction of "throttle hang." Where when you come off the gas for 0.1-0.3s the throttle plate is partially open effectively holding revs or very gently dropping revs to make your shift smoother.
I get the feeling that in the "R" they just got rid of that, so without sport mode you have to rev match up shift and down shift. While it can make the car more involving, I found it to just be annoying when you weren't hustling the car around. Hence I used the worth synthetic. The flip side of that is that I do hate the throttle hang in my manual F10 M5, for example. It holds the rpm for WAY too long when you're grabbing gears, but in 997 generation GT cars I think Porsche had it set pretty perfectly...
I noticed the tuned 997.2RS has similar behavior where the throttle closed instantly so the motor quickly winds down. The stock throttle mapping doesn't do that from what I remember in my old RS...
Some folks were talking about the pulls feeling "harder" in the R versus the RS. With different gear ratios in each car and the PDK it's hard to say. Through some totally legal playing around on the streets accelerating to the speed limit of course, we found the RS won just about every which way. We never launched the cars to do brutal 0-60, more like various rolling 15-...speed limit, 40-...speed limit
etcThe R does give you a different experience as you're doing a full throttle pull, because you're anticipating an upshift and playing the motions out in your head before you act - whereas in the RS you yawn, flick a finger and keep going...
Seeing 911R prices touching CGT prices, to me says if you have the means, go get a CGT. I can't wait to get more seat time in the R, but any time my friend opens the key box and offers anything - I'm instantly going for the CGT. It's not fair to compare the cars, but when you can buy a decent CGT for the asking price of some R's....the comparison is bound to happen but it just doesn't seem fair at all.
I hope we can remember 1) how lucky we are to be enjoying these toys 2) these are my somewhat well informed opinions (I actively race in a few different club level series and have been lucky enough to drive a lot of sick metal in anger) 3) we're lucky to have access to all of these and engage in a fun discussion about them!
Looking forward to seeing more opinions roll in - and as I get more seat time in the R I'm happy to share more thoughts...
12-25-2016, 06:47 PM
#192
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
""the R is happy to lead or let you lead as a dance partner. The RS requires you to lead otherwise it will lead you off the road.."
Like my bikes, The R is a 28 yo chic... Playful inexperienced, springingly and eager.
RS is a 36YO, you better get your acts together. Or you be off the bed
Like my bikes, The R is a 28 yo chic... Playful inexperienced, springingly and eager.
RS is a 36YO, you better get your acts together. Or you be off the bed
12-25-2016, 07:55 PM
#193
""the R is happy to lead or let you lead as a dance partner. The RS requires you to lead otherwise it will lead you off the road.."
Like my bikes, The R is a 28 yo chic... Playful inexperienced, springingly and eager.
RS is a 36YO, you better get your acts together. Or you be off the bed
Like my bikes, The R is a 28 yo chic... Playful inexperienced, springingly and eager.
RS is a 36YO, you better get your acts together. Or you be off the bed
12-25-2016, 09:24 PM
#195
Racer
<edit> I forgot to quote turbofreeFLAT6 above and I'm too lazy to figure out how to edit to include the quote
I've flogged 997.2's and got everything out of them and then some - so to me it always feels like putting on your favorite jeans/shoes/whatever. I'm saying this because I may have some bias to the 997, but I'll try to remove that and just write what I felt...
The 997 moves around more at each end, but (and this might be my level of comfort in it) but I feel it, expect it, and respond/react appropriately.
The 991R feels planted in comparison - which I chalk up to the 991 chassis being more rigid, longer wheel base, less rear engined (as every generation has done), etc. The R definitely is playful, as I said it is a willing dance partner. I love the way mooty put it, I think he's spot on. That said the R is for sure the most playful of the 991 gen cars, and I know with time it will feel like home - but the 991 is just more refined than the 997. No parts bin exercise will change that, the base of the car is just more sophisticated. IMHO that leads Porsche to doing cheeky things like rev match up shifts, different rear steering calibration, narrower rear end, etc to make it playful. While the 997 was sophisticated for it's time, the march of engineering progress will always make what felt new and amazing at one point, feel old and raw later...(there's a dirty joke in there somewhere)
Quickly on gear changes - I *love* the shifter (only the GT4's is better...but maybe this R needs a few more miles to match my GT4 ). It's damn close to the GT4, but not quite as silky smooth. The clutch, on the other hand, is way too light for me. I love the 997.2 GT car clutches, giving you a nice left leg work out...tons of feel too.
Bottom line it's a great car, I would absolutely have one if I could, but I don't value it much over sticker the way the rest of the market does.
One thing that surprised me the bost about the 991R experience - I gained new levels or respect for the 991RS. I think I understand why Porsche made it PDK only.
I've flogged 997.2's and got everything out of them and then some - so to me it always feels like putting on your favorite jeans/shoes/whatever. I'm saying this because I may have some bias to the 997, but I'll try to remove that and just write what I felt...
The 997 moves around more at each end, but (and this might be my level of comfort in it) but I feel it, expect it, and respond/react appropriately.
The 991R feels planted in comparison - which I chalk up to the 991 chassis being more rigid, longer wheel base, less rear engined (as every generation has done), etc. The R definitely is playful, as I said it is a willing dance partner. I love the way mooty put it, I think he's spot on. That said the R is for sure the most playful of the 991 gen cars, and I know with time it will feel like home - but the 991 is just more refined than the 997. No parts bin exercise will change that, the base of the car is just more sophisticated. IMHO that leads Porsche to doing cheeky things like rev match up shifts, different rear steering calibration, narrower rear end, etc to make it playful. While the 997 was sophisticated for it's time, the march of engineering progress will always make what felt new and amazing at one point, feel old and raw later...(there's a dirty joke in there somewhere)
Quickly on gear changes - I *love* the shifter (only the GT4's is better...but maybe this R needs a few more miles to match my GT4
). It's damn close to the GT4, but not quite as silky smooth. The clutch, on the other hand, is way too light for me. I love the 997.2 GT car clutches, giving you a nice left leg work out...tons of feel too. Bottom line it's a great car, I would absolutely have one if I could, but I don't value it much over sticker the way the rest of the market does.
One thing that surprised me the bost about the 991R experience - I gained new levels or respect for the 991RS. I think I understand why Porsche made it PDK only.
Last edited by MirageJHU; 12-26-2016 at 12:40 AM.