turbofreeFLAT6

Thanks for the great comparison, Mirage JHU.

I had a GT4 and was in awe of the gear change: so short, precise and perfectly weighted. While I had the car I took a 997.1 RS for a test drive and thought the GT4's gearshift was so much better. However after a few thousand km I sold the GT4 to buy a 997 RS 4.0. By then the gearshift in the GT4 had fully loosened up and become so quick and easy that it almost felt like the switch of a paddle shift. By comparison the shift in the RS 4.0 is heavy, undefined and if you don't get it right it baulks. To begin with it made me feel incompetent but then the challenge of getting it right and experiencing the speed of the shift when you do became a much greater source of satisfaction than effortlessly slotting it every time.

It will be a real challenge for manufacturers to maintain character and driver involvement while striving for technological perfection which by nature reduces those elements. Ever was it thus but have we reached or passed the sweet spot? I think that's the question that makes the 911R and this thread so interesting.

Jrtaylor9

Wow, from GT4 to 4.0......that's a leap.

turbofreeFLAT6

Had a '99 GT3 for 6 years in Australia, sold it when Down Under became a total police state, regretted it for several years, began living half each year in France, spent 2014 searching for my ideal 997.1 RS, found two but they got away, then prices more than doubled in early 2015 so thought I'd see if a GT4 would scratch the itch, was disappointed by the feel of the steering, engine note and lack of high-rev kick, did a back-to-back with a 997.1 RS and was surprised how similar they were in many ways but preferred the more adjustable handling of the RS, decided to pursue an RS again but with a step up in performance, searched for a 997.2 with PTS because I don't like the standard RS 3.8 colour schemes, couldn't find one and decided to fulfil my ultimate dream of a 4.0. This time I wasn't disappointed!

rk-d

This is very true. I've never used a box so finely made - Driving in sport mode with auto-blip and it's almost like driving PDK. I don't criticize Porsche for making something too perfect, but there you go. Shows you how annoyingly fickle we all are.

neanicu

Again for the millionth time : it can be disengaged! You have the best of both worlds,pick and choose. YOU CAN'T DISENGAGE pdk,it's there to stay!

rk-d

I'm well aware

MirageJHU

I think with the 997 4.0 you've got the best one

I totally agree with you on the challenge as cars get quieter, more stable, lighter, stiffer, etc. I think they will find ways to make cars engaging on those platforms - but something will always be different because of that, right? And here we are trying to figure out what those differences are haha. Quite fun!

Haha I'm not sure anyone is criticizing them for it? I love the sport mode in the GT4 and in the R, I just think they overly exaggerated the need to rev match on upshifts. And I only read praise for the way a broken in GT4's stick feels like a paddle - I think everyone really enjoys that aspect of it. Rowing that lever is an amazing human-machine interaction.

RE: revmatch/sport mode? I think we all know that - but thanks for repeating

Footsoldier

I have to say that I've never pressed the sport button on the R, and not planning to (I feel that an auto blip on the downshift would be akin to a dagger through the heart...), but I've never noticed any issue whatsoever with rev drop on up-changes. Can't imagine why you'd need assiatnce on the way up.
2000 miles in various conditions and modes of attack and it's just a very good, normal box.

neanicu

The same way it's being repeated how artificial the rev match assist feels?
You're welcome!

Suitcase

I still don't have enough time in the R (under 400 miles, 5000RPM's and straight Florida roads) to write with any real impressions. The gearbox still feels new and I haven't experienced the horsepower. But it seems to me that the "sport" mode is some attempt to introduce a "PDK like" performance advantage to a manual gearbox. I have tried it. I find it kind of weird; especially on up shifts. And if you want it for downshifts why would you even drive the R? I believe the idea was to keep the motor, which drops off very quickly, in an optimum power band on upshifts; hence "sport." Even if it means a few tenths, I'll never use it. The manual box, used as a manual, is just the reason I don't want a 991 RS and why the R is so special. And I still feel, the R is not GT3 or RS, but more superbike.

Unfortunately I don't have my 3.8 RS anymore to drive both cars back to back. I remember my 3.8 as one of the great 911's. I would prefer a slightly heavier clutch in the R. I don't have a GT4. But I have over 7000 miles in the Boxster Spyder. Drivetrain, clutch feel and gearbox in the Spyder is about perfect. Is it the same as a GT4?

neanicu

The rev match is good to have on the track if you're looking for lap times. I still prefer to rev match myself but I'm very slow.
The feel of the GT4's shifter is the best I've ever experienced.

Jamie140

F355 manual is like that too.

The throttle hang in modern BMW's is terribly annoying.

BusDriver

Interesting reading some diverse viewpoints – thank you for posting.

A few thoughts on control weights…

While the GT4 is a fantastic car, and unbeatable for the money – there are a few things that could be better about the car. Gearing is too tall, engine lacks the manic response at high rpm, and the control weights are a little uneven. The clutch is heavy, while the steering is light, and so is the gearshift. In this regard, the CGT is better than the GT4 because all controls are consistently heavy. 997 RS cars are also better because everything is heavy too.

And the 911R is better because everything is consistently light. The lightness of the 911R’s controls took me aback at first, being used to much more meaty feeling cars. But now with over 3k km on the car, the lightness of the controls fits with the lightweight feel of the entire car - the responsiveness of the chassis, the effortless way the engine dominates the car making it feel overpowered.

And I would guess that for anyone used to the meaty old-school race car feeling of the 997 RS cars, it will take some time to get used to, and fully appreciate the lightweight road going hot-rod spirit of 911R.

laranja

The GT4 and Spyder clutches / shifting are very similar.
The Spyder presents more sound / drama from the exhaust on shifting with overrun in Sport mode.
It's overall noisier than the GT4.
So far, I've not thought the clutches in the 981 cars too heavy
compared to the shifter or steering as BusDriver says above.
I really like the steering on the Spyder.
After switching tires to 265f/285r and doing track setup
I find the steering to on the GT4 to be really good.
But the Spyder with its smaller tires is a bit more moveable / playful.

Other than that, very comparable clutch feel & gearboxes I think.
If I had to pick one, I'd say the GT4 - but I couldn't articulate why.

Power-wise, both the Spyder and GT4 can't compare to an 991 RS of course.
That's a huge differentiator I think. The power & torque are just
always available on the RS, but have to be managed in the
rev ranges on the 981s.

After posting this, need some warm weather to jump in
the Spyder again! I think I've driven a total of 2 miles
with the top up.

NoPaddleShiftFor

I only had a couple of dry days in mine before the dreaded gritters came out but managed about 600 miles and my feelings about it are very similar to bus driver's particularly the turn in which is just so impressive. I can't wait for the spring to get her back on the road and hopefully a few track days. I think she'll do great around a tight little circuit like Knockhill.