Rennsport V Report...Let's start with the talk of Andreas Preuninger!
#136
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just treat the GT3 as it is not a videogame
but a unicorn flat 6 capable to rev 9k but
warming And cooling the engine properly before
either don t exagerate for track only purpose there are the Cup versions with tight scheduled maintenance parts replacements
how to comment ppl trying launch control when car is
just started and engine still cold?
with these new buyers they have not a surprise they had to
reduce RS well under 9k Rpm
but a unicorn flat 6 capable to rev 9k but
warming And cooling the engine properly before
either don t exagerate for track only purpose there are the Cup versions with tight scheduled maintenance parts replacements
how to comment ppl trying launch control when car is
just started and engine still cold?
with these new buyers they have not a surprise they had to
reduce RS well under 9k Rpm
#139
Three Wheelin'
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Slightly off the subject but relevant to our conversation here. I had many discussions with some very knowledgeable insiders from Stuttgart who told me the 991 GT3 engine was still having problems. They said the problem was the engine case and components were designed to be very light and are not up to the task of producing 9k revs. They cautioned me on tracking my car and reving to these levels. I think this is why you will not see additional horsepower on the new .2 GT3/RS. Guys the only option left is a diet..
#140
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Not to bring down the party, but we should all remember that AP's presentation was given during the complete unfolding of VW's giant mess.
With Porsche taking a larger stake in the company, their CEO being reassigned as VW's CEO, 10 day mandate from Germany to come up with a fix, Senators in the US pushing for criminal charges.......I don't see how VW could possibly survive this mess without coming out as the new "Super Green" car manufacturer along with it's other brands...Porsche and Audi. That IMHO will push them towards turbos and hybrids.
Can such a new company still produce a N/A car?.....we shall see.
With Porsche taking a larger stake in the company, their CEO being reassigned as VW's CEO, 10 day mandate from Germany to come up with a fix, Senators in the US pushing for criminal charges.......I don't see how VW could possibly survive this mess without coming out as the new "Super Green" car manufacturer along with it's other brands...Porsche and Audi. That IMHO will push them towards turbos and hybrids.
Can such a new company still produce a N/A car?.....we shall see.
#141
Nordschleife Master
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Slightly off the subject but relevant to our conversation here. I had many discussions with some very knowledgeable insiders from Stuttgart who told me the 991 GT3 engine was still having problems. They said the problem was the engine case and components were designed to be very light and are not up to the task of producing 9k revs. They cautioned me on tracking my car and reving to these levels. I think this is why you will not see additional horsepower on the new .2 GT3/RS. Guys the only option left is a diet..
This is the first I have heard of the engine case being a problem and certainly doesn't mean that this isn't an issue but I have doubt that the case design (or possible casting issue during production) is a problem across all engines......I have heard from tech department of isolated reports of case castings having porous sections that will seep oil, I have heard of occasional internal issues, I have heard of valve train issues, and with these they are very small or rare occurances but if they are insinuating that the case is not able to handle the stress of 9k rpms then typically you would see different issues (from what has been reported by both people here and tech department) as a result.
can be verified as indeed a 'knowledgeable insider'...and thus believable. It seems to me unlikely that someone from Porsche or a supplier
would make a statement like this to a private person at Rennsport. So unless you are willing to be more precise with the source of your
information, I would be a little bit more careful when posting this sort of a 'discussion'. This is just my personal opinion, for what it's worth.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
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#142
Three Wheelin'
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Not to bring down the party, but we should all remember that AP's presentation was given during the complete unfolding of VW's giant mess.
With Porsche taking a larger stake in the company, their CEO being reassigned as VW's CEO, 10 day mandate from Germany to come up with a fix, Senators in the US pushing for criminal charges.......I don't see how VW could possibly survive this mess without coming out as the new "Super Green" car manufacturer along with it's other brands...Porsche and Audi. That IMHO will push them towards turbos and hybrids.
Can such a new company still produce a N/A car?.....we shall see.
With Porsche taking a larger stake in the company, their CEO being reassigned as VW's CEO, 10 day mandate from Germany to come up with a fix, Senators in the US pushing for criminal charges.......I don't see how VW could possibly survive this mess without coming out as the new "Super Green" car manufacturer along with it's other brands...Porsche and Audi. That IMHO will push them towards turbos and hybrids.
Can such a new company still produce a N/A car?.....we shall see.
Last edited by sccchiii; 10-01-2015 at 08:21 AM.
#143
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Mostly I agree.
I'm happy as a current GT3 owner that the next generation won't be that much more powerful, as this means I don't need to worry about getting a 991.2 GT3.
I'm bummed that the RS may never exceed 4.0L and the base GT3 may never get to 4.0L due to the damn tax issue for cars sold in China at or over 4.0L.
I'm happy for the manual lovers that the 991.2 GT3 will get a manual, however I know my 991.1 PDK GT3 will take an extra price hit, the day Porsche officially announces a manual option for the 991.2 GT3.
I'm happy as a current GT3 owner that the next generation won't be that much more powerful, as this means I don't need to worry about getting a 991.2 GT3.
I'm bummed that the RS may never exceed 4.0L and the base GT3 may never get to 4.0L due to the damn tax issue for cars sold in China at or over 4.0L.
I'm happy for the manual lovers that the 991.2 GT3 will get a manual, however I know my 991.1 PDK GT3 will take an extra price hit, the day Porsche officially announces a manual option for the 991.2 GT3.
#144
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China so far is not an interesting market for any RS
#145
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I pretty much scooped the paddock at Rennsport this weekend. I asked countless people about the motor in my GT3 and the RS and was told point blank by multiple people there are no problems and actually less than there were with the Mezger. The 4.0 is not an internal problem per say is what I was told three times. It is minor and won't result in a production stop. Not sure who the above poster is but those of use who over the years have had reliable information and posted it really pride ourselves on relaying non-bull**** posts. I wasn't a fan of the 9A1 lump in our car but after using it on track and speaking with many higher ups this past weekend, feel its a solid package. And this includes those getting or tracking the RS 4.0 9a1.
#146
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The engines in the GT3 and the RS are a tight tolerance engine, let it warmed up properly and it will be trouble free through out the rev range. But for the idiots that redline theirs when the engine is still cold, then the sky is the limit as to what damage they can do.
#147
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I've never had an issue with the new GT3 engine, either myself or design.
I have rebuilt multiple boxer type engines over the year in aircraft. While changes occur and I am not intimately familiar with my GT3 engine, I know that basic design has certain rules. Rule one; the case has to be split in order to insert crack shaft. From there the integrity of the case leaking or chafing or deforming is very dependent on the straight of the case in combination with the fasteners that hold it together and the quality of the seal. Also would be the quality of constructing. Figure case fasteners and seal.
Porsche has done many of these over the years and knowing the company, they are not building the lightest design possible and probably has a lot of extra strength built into the design.
The only problem I know of was the result of the fasteners. Since it is water cooled it would not be near as critical as the air cooled I worked on so only other factor to longevity would be warm up time before subjecting to design load limits.
I have rebuilt multiple boxer type engines over the year in aircraft. While changes occur and I am not intimately familiar with my GT3 engine, I know that basic design has certain rules. Rule one; the case has to be split in order to insert crack shaft. From there the integrity of the case leaking or chafing or deforming is very dependent on the straight of the case in combination with the fasteners that hold it together and the quality of the seal. Also would be the quality of constructing. Figure case fasteners and seal.
Porsche has done many of these over the years and knowing the company, they are not building the lightest design possible and probably has a lot of extra strength built into the design.
The only problem I know of was the result of the fasteners. Since it is water cooled it would not be near as critical as the air cooled I worked on so only other factor to longevity would be warm up time before subjecting to design load limits.
#148
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#149
Drifting
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Thanks for sharing the AP insight.
I had noted the meeting but missed the slot most likely distracted with all the race cars noise and prepping for the afternoon run group...maybe race gas fumes too,
I had noted the meeting but missed the slot most likely distracted with all the race cars noise and prepping for the afternoon run group...maybe race gas fumes too,
#150
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Question by Rennlister SmokinGTS:
"I was really hoping that the Boxster Spyder (981) would have the suspension & performance (of the gt4)...it was
a missed opportunity of setting that car (981 Boxster Spyder) up so that we would have the suspension & horsepower
(to track the car)..."
Response by Andreas Preuninger:
"I understand your point. You might be right. There is a lot of synergy to be found if you do it to two cars which shares
components as many as possible. The thing is we started the gt4 program a little bit ahead of the Boxster Spyder and
we in Motorsports just didn't do open cars, you know...must of you know that these cars (points to the gt4) are developed
in Porsche Motorsports department and not in the standard (series) development department...we are one/tenth (of the
size in staff) but the way of doing things is a little bit different sometimes, and the colleagues from the standard department
they had the capacity to do this Boxster Spyder and they had the idea...and I don't think a Spyder, a Boxster Spyder, is
a Motorsport product, to be frank, and that was what we were discussing when we started...
But now that we see that most of the Boxster Spyder customers are really, exactly, asking that question, that might have
been a mistake. And I think in future model, models, models...the Spyder & the gt4 will be a bit closer together regarding,
especially, the suspension...
And if our superiors make the decision that the Motorsports department is willing...is allowed to do an open version as well,
that is good, that would be good !(makes a motion with his hand of 'victory'). And I would like that!
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Just wait a little while more, I know the Spyder, the Boxster Spyder, is not a track car...the gt car (turns to the gt4) is more
of that kind of a track car, but I think we are going to change that in the future, to be frank! (Applause from the audience)
We listen, most of us listen to our customers, that is why we will be stopping (to engage) in every conversations we can"
At this point the moderator, ex-PCA president Manny Alban, adds the following caution to the audience:
"But don't put that on Facebook...or Rennlist"
Andreas, smiling, interrupts him and says:
"It will be already there...in five minutes!"
Well, it took a bit longer than five minutes, but the news is finally posted here on Rennlist where it belongs!
I wanted to carefully transcribe the recording as best I could to accurately represent what Andreas Preuninger
told us, in his own words & unfiltered, at this public gathering during Rennsport! And by reporting the story
using his exact language & the context in which it's used, it also allows you to better understand the present
thinking re: 'open cars' like the 981 Spyder at Porsche Motorsports...& how that might change in the future!
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I believe this is a very important development if it comes to be!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
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