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I don't have time right now to find it, but I have posted extensively about
the color Gelbgrün', code 137, on this forum. And that includes the earlier
pages of this particular thread. Search and you will find it. It's one of my
favorite colors of all time.
l
My bad. If I search for "gelbgrun," as opposed to "gelb grun," it comes up.
Please have mercy on the dead horse & stop beating him!
Originally Posted by NateOZ
This is a 997 4.0 in Glebgrun - use your own judgement to decide if it's photoshoped or not by comparing it to the interior color.
There you go again beating on this poor dead pony all over again!
That particular photo of the 4.0 LT an over-saturated photo of the color 'Gelbgrün' and nobody that truly is familiar with this color in real life
will agree with you that this represents how the color looks in person!
Here is the previous exchange Nate & I had on the subject:
...I don't pretend to know Slip's ordering process, but I order cars all the time without seeing them in person - it's part of the fun.
Here's the same 4.0 on the same day, different lighting or is this the true natural picture before they enhanced it? I'm putting my money on the later...
Originally Posted by NateOZ
Right - it's not the exact same picture, but it's the only one from the entire shoot that has that color to it. So I'm on the other side of this bet with the rest of the shoot being more true to modern Glebgrun. I believe they've tried to remove reflective effect of the modern paint to make it look more like the vintage color. My money is on the color being more like this on a 991 in bright light and more like the one you posted in the shade/indoors. Again, just my view so people need to do their own diligence with their orders. This one actually shows it pretty well, you can see where the shadows hit the car it looks more green and less yellow.
I am trying to shed light on these colors so that Rennlisters get an opportunity to consider these various PTS possibilities. I can't let this topic dropped without pointing what I know about 'Gelbgrün', color code 137, so that it can help set the record straight. First some background on the particular vehicle that has been the subject of our recent discussion. It is a .2 997 gt3 RS 4.0, #001 of the 600 Limited Edition series. It was custom ordered in PTS 'Gelbgrün', color code 137, by its owner, Teamspeed member 'BluScorpio':
The owner posted this photo of the 'Gelbgrün' color sample he was shown by Porsche during his visit to 'Porsche Exclusive' in Germany and which he used to decide what to order on his RS:
Here are photos after the 'Gelbgrün' arrived in SouthEast Asia:
**********************************************************
So far, so good. Then the owner takes this photo in the sun, which is a
total technical 'fail' if you ask any professional photographer.
And he apparently has a professional photo shoot done on his gt3 RS which is posted at another thread in Teamspeed.
As a consumer of information, you will have to decide what to believe about 'Gelbgrün'. I know the color well and it looks like this 1974 911:
It looks like this color sample, color code 137, supplied by someone that was considering it:
And it looks like this color sample supplied to the owner of the 4.0 by Porsche itself when he visited Zuffenhausen:
*********************
So, in summary, if Nate & perhaps others want to believe 'Gelbgrün' actually looks more like this digitally manipulated, metallic-looking photographs taken during the dramatic photo shoot...go right ahead!
Nate is not ordering a PTS 'Gelbgrün' on his 991 gt3 RS (it will be 'Viper Green'), so he can afford to be somewhat 'glib' about this particular 'grün'! But if you, on the other hand, are seriously considering 'Gelbgrün', you need to have all the facts at your disposal so that you can make an intelligent choice on this both historic & stunning solid green color! So caveat lector.
I hate to ask this, but is the clearcoat changing the actual look of the color in the sun or only in the photographs? Or is it the post-production? I would be completely happy if the color looked like the '74 or the indoor photos.
There you go again beating on this poor dead pony all over again!
I don't think it's dead until someone's car shows up and I hope for their sake they're happy with the choice That's all that really matters at the end of the day.
I hate to ask this, but is the clearcoat changing the actual look of the color in the sun or only in the photographs? Or is it the post-production? I would be completely happy if the color looked like the '74 or the indoor photos.
I'm in the camp it's the clearcoat changing the look in the sun - rather than the the '74 shade photos. This is after owning a RY GT3 and seeing how different the color was in the shade vs the sun.
I don't think it's dead until someone's car shows up and I hope for their sake they're happy with the choice
That's all that really matters at the end of the day.
A PTS 'Gelbgrün', color code 137, .1 991 GTS has already been delivered to a customer in Germany and reported extensively
in this forum. Daniel provided you already with a photograph. What else do you want? Another pony to torture?
A PTS 'Gelbgrün', color code 137, .1 991 GTS has already been delivered to a customer in Germany and reported extensively
in this forum. Daniel provided you already with a photograph. What else do you want? Another pony to torture?
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
.
Reminds me of our slate grey discussion....
I think people are better to be informed when they see color choices in different conditions.
You guys must get over it. It's just another colour, albeit a gorgeous colour. Let it be. Both of you have the passion for this colour, it's all good in the end.
Steven has valid points which I would like to address. And I am also adding
some additional bits of information & my personal opinion to the mix so that
others can make up their own minds on this topic. My comments will be in
'RED' or 'BLUE'.
Originally Posted by Steven_H
I suspect that one reason for Porsche's reluctance to be more 'transparent' is
their attitude toward PTS. In the recent past - 3 years ago - PTS cars were very
limited, there was no 'approved' list, and ordering a car PTS was difficult and
oblique. In this way, Porsche was able to maintain the 'exclusive' aspect of program.
That may have been the results but not the intent. I'll explain further below.
***
I think Porsche Exclusives began in 1986 in Germany
Correct. 'Porsche Exclusive', as we know it today, was founded in 1986.
***
and I believe it was Sasha who convinced Porsche to open an
Exclusives department in the US, with initially only him in California
and later Melissa on the East Coast.
Sascha Glaeser, who recently left his employment at Porsche, indeed
staffed the initial dedicated 'Porsche Exclusive' effort in the US. He
devised the business case for ‘International Customer Consultation’
& got it approved. But he actually arrived in the US to do that job in
February 2011...so fairly recently. Not by coincidence, I started posting
about what one could do via 'Porsche Exclusive' not long after that in
September of 2011:
Most dealers were relatively unaware of what was possible. My sense
it was based on the Special Wishes (Sonderwunsche) department at
the factory which began in the early 1950s and pretty much served the
Porsche family, Near Eastern collectors and friends of the factory.
This is very true. Porsche has been doing 'Special Wishes' for customers
from just about the very start of the company. I once had a 1960 356
Roadster with a special kill switch from factory that was not on the option's
list. And you might remember that I often talk about Porsche's MY1970 color
offerings, which set a record at 9 regular colors & 21 'special colors' for a
choice of 30. But even with this array of choices, Porsche still allowed
1.3% of production in MY1970 to be paint to sample orders! So of the
over 15,000 911s & 914-6 built, nearly 200 cars were PTS in 1970!
But the official 'Sonderwunsche Programm', as the department came to
be known, did not officially start until 1978.
And in 1986, it's name was changed to 'Porsche Exclusive' and it celebrated
it's 25th Anniversary in 2011!
***
These rare cars were VERY special with modified bodywork, outrageous
interiors, etc. Costs of the modifications often exceeded $100k. My instinct
is that Porsche is not particularly interested in significantly expanding their
Exclusives department - rather it is something of a 'halo' operation.
Yes, one could get that idea from the many obstacles they seem to place in
the path of ordering these special & rare options. But that is probably not
how PAG perceives it. From Feb 2011 to May 2014, the period in which
Sascha Glaeser headed 'Porsche Exclusive' for PCNA, he reported that
vehicle option revenue increased by $3.75M and his department's target
goals were exceeded 25% for each of 2011 & 2012...and over 50% in
2013! So Porsche thinks of 'Porsche Exclusive' as a profit center and
is counting on its continued growth to reach its profitability goals here
& all other ROW markets!
***
My other instinct is that Porsche loses money on every PTS car - the
costs of testing, changing all the paint systems for a (very) few cars,
not to mention the all too time consuming process of ordering a Porsche
Exclusives car. Many people spend inordinate time NOT ordering a car.
Having ordered two PTS cars in unique colors and with lengthy Exclusives
options, I am enormously respectful and appreciative of what is a hugely
time consuming process for Porsche. And after reading the Forbes article,
I was reminded of the inordinate difficulty of convincing vendors to provide
unique versions of parts for only a few cars.
I don't really know for certain, but I have been speculating for years now
that PTS is a relative bargain and its cost to us doesn't reflect the potential
headaches to PAG, in terms of logistical planning & paint warranty issues
that could develop down the road. Here are excerpts from a post I wrote
back in 8/19/2014 at the 991 gt3 forum:
"As an aside, if you think 'White' is hard to match on the plastic bumper of
a gt3, imagine PAG's Quality Control engineers or the bean counters in their
Warranty Department enormous concern (technical & financial) for matching
PTS colors on those bumpers and avoiding this type of warranty issues on
those special custom-paint cars!!!! If you look it from their perspective, they
would cancel PTS and CXX special options in a nano-second. That PTS is still
alive at Porsche is a miracle...regardless the $5500 expense. The engineers
and accountants would rather not take the risk of the warranty claims. And
if you look at the expense of feasibility study for color, PTS paint ordering &
handling process, the additional logistical issues involved in coordinating all
the painted parts that goes into a vehicle (e.g. a gt3) and the accounting
reserves in case of warranty claims, PAG might be able to make the case
they break even, or lose money, on each PTS order they sell! What they
gain by PTS is not profit...but the ability to satisfy a client with the ultimate
personal customization of his/her vehicle, something which is not often
offered by the competition. That is the key benefit of PTS & 'Porsche
Exclusive'. Remember all of this when you hear folks complaining about
the 'high cost' of PTS at Porsche...it's a bargain in my opinion."
Finally, 'Exclusives' becomes an oxymoron when it becomes common.
Maybe. But Porsche's stated goal is to grow 'Porsche Exclusive' & not
keep it that 'exclusive'. The new manager of PCNA's 'Porsche Exclusive'
in the United States, Barbara Boeckenhoff, has an even bigger budget
for 2016...and has hired two additional staff members for its Beverly
Hills 'showroom' in addition to retaining Melissa Witek in Atlanta.
And 'Porsche Exclusive' is expanding in other ROW markets, such as
the Middle East with folks there like Torsten Horn! So, whether it comes
as a surprise to some or not, 'Porsche Exclusive' is growing! And I
don't see it becoming once again 'oblique' or 'veiled' anytime soon!
It's not like Porsche is not heavily advertising 'Porsche Exclusive' or
anything like that. In fact, it's just the opposite:
How many are aware that Mercedes offers Paint to Sample, for example?
Well, I have an even more important question to ask. How many
here know that 'Paint to Sample' is not part of 'Porsche Exclusive'?
It is not. So the 800 pound gorilla in the room present in this conversation
is 'Paint to Sample' which we always associate and mixed in with 'Porsche
Exclusive'. PTS is not run, organized, managed or controlled by 'Porsche
Exclusive'. It's is under separate management. And that is why I am
asking Porsche to let me have access to the people that run it and get
their perspective as to why they run it in the manner they currently do.
And also how they are planning to meet increased demand in the future.
***
Mercedes, BMW, Audi, to name just a few, do indeed offer its own PTS
program to their customers. But demand for it is just a small fraction
of the requests for this option at Porsche. And the reasons for that
smaller demand are many:
1) The size/shape of their vehicles often do not lend themselves to
unusual and/or bright colors!
2) Few auto manufactures have the iconic color period that Porsche
experienced in the late 1960's/early 1970's which define a sport car era!
3) Few manufacturers have enthusiast websites like Rennlist with
up-to-the-minute information on PTS (e.g. this thread for example)
like we provide that is helping drive the interest up on this rare option!
***
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
.
Last edited by Z356; 11-18-2015 at 11:04 PM.
Reason: Repositioning the quoted parts so its more compact!
Eduardo, don't misinterpret. I may be just a state school educated guy, but I am wise from experience. I would never ever question you on a Porsche color . I was just saying, as you often do, these colors are so difficult to ascertain on the monitor, given settings, lighting in the pics, etc. It is a gorgeous color. I think I like it even better than signal green. A bit brighter/more electric.
11-11-2015, 01:53 PM
That's all that really matters at the end of the day.
. I was just saying, as you often do, these colors are so difficult to ascertain on the monitor, given settings, lighting in the pics, etc. It is a gorgeous color. I think I like it even better than signal green. A bit brighter/more electric.