orthojoe

Thanks. I'm not saying TrofeoR are bad, I just don't think they are any better than MPSC2. I've gone through 2 sets of TrofeoR with the same results. I appreciate you sharing your setups and experience with us. Given how the outer edges of my rear cup2 continued to wear excessively despite -3.0 camber in the rear, your camber of -3.6 certainly is plausible. Do your front tires on MPSC2 wear out quicker than the rear as well? As manifold mentioned, the rear tends to heat cycle out before they wear out.

the_vetman

And any "pro driver" knows that Hoosiers (i.e. not slicks) or racing slicks start to fall off in performance and lap times after a few-several heat cycles. By comparing old/used-up Cup2s with new Trofeo Rs then saying you were 3 seconds faster on new tires doesn't actually tell us anything about which is faster. Maybe they are, but you can't say based on that comparison.

PhinneyWood

Awesome! I've stumbled across your channel on YT!

krisa9977

All I can say I'm surprised with your results. I've also gone through 2 sets of TrofeoRs and many sets of Cup2s. My results were different and I know a lots of people who switched to Trofeos and improved their lap times as well.

I don't work with Pirelli and don't sell tires. I wish Cup2 were as fast as Trofeo, because Cups2 last much longer with higher tread wear and they just better quality tires.

krisa9977

Thank you very much for your valuable information. From now on I stop buying scrubs... Now I know that racing slicks start to fall off after track use.

rm21

Been watching your suspension/tire posts with great interest. I just mounted my first set of Trofeo's and I'm about to have my suspension setup adjusted. I use a local race shop with lots of experience in racing Porsches, but I think we are all still learning when it comes to a streetable GT3. Having a reliable way to post monitor maximum lateral grip is key, so thanks Joe for keeping us all focused on that. I'm a bit surprised there isn't more discussion of taking tire temps to confirm correct camber and pressures. Without that data point, I would think many of these other debates may be misleading. The other variable that I personally have to contend with is the Crawford wing and cup car splitter, which noticeably change the dynamics of my car. I'm been struggling to dial out some push in high speed sweepers and currently have my sway bars one notch soft in the front and neutral in the rear. That has helped, but my tests have been confounded by unequal wear and replacement cycles with the PSC2s. I'm probably done with that approach, although the expense of always replacing in unison is going to hurt the wallet a bit. With the Trofeo's, at least I'll be starting with a fresh set on my next outing. At one level, others may think we are all crazy focusing this much time on settings for cars that aren't pure race cars, but you have to put it in perspective of what it costs to buy time if you are driving reasonably fast. I picked up 5 seconds at Road Atlanta when I went from my Cayman to GT3. The next leap (at least in the Porsche family) gets a lot more expensive, with far less bang for the buck. Getting the setup right seems like time well spent, with the biggest gains still to come from professional coaching and focused practice!

orthojoe

I'll admit that I'm surprised with my results as well. You are certainly not the first person to say that the TrofeoR are faster. If it was just me, then I would blame it on my driving, but 3 drivers in the same car have been no faster, and one of the drivers happens to hold all of the lap records for the 991GT3 in norcal. Some other possibilities:
1) are you not running N spec MPSC2? I've found the K spec to be slower
2) the OEM Nspec MSPC2 that originally came on my car were an anomaly in terms of grip. We've only run ONE set of MPSC2 N spec on the car. I'll be able to find out soon enough since the current set of TrofeoR will be dead by next weekend and we'll be mounting N spec MPSC2 before the end of the month
3) my setup for trofeo R is wrong

Good point. We took temps with the MPSC2 and they were nice and even, but I've never bother with the TrofeoR. Will try next weekend.

Let us know how it goes for you. I wonder if your tire wear will be different with trofeoR. With TrofeoR we've found the rears to wear slightly more than the front, but nearly even front/rear. Contrast with MPSC2 front wears faster than the rear.

True...

MaxLTV

Regarding Trofeos vs. MPSC2s. I think Trofeos might actually be slightly faster. Why - because when Joe was getting 1.3Gs on MPSC2s, I was getting exactly the same Gs on same tires too. Now I can only get 1.2Gs on fresh MPSC2s at Thunderhill. I think extreme heat and the amount of dust we are getting with all this draught stuff reduced overall grip since the time we both ran MPSC2s. I think we just need same driver driving both cars back to back.

orthojoe

I wasn't getting 1.3G either that weekend with trofeoR. Barely 1.2G.



And neither was Chris the prior week (skip to the fast lap at the end):



Will have mpsc2 at thill on 9/25 with all 3 drivers to get some good numbers

PierreTT

Additional Input on the tires discussion...

I replaced my original MSPC2 last week. They were 10,000km / 6 track days old. Still some tread left but felt over heat cycled...

Fresh MPSC2. Did not changed anything else (same alignment, same lame driver... )

Weather was a little cooler but I was 3 secs faster yesterday with the new tires!

New VS Old makes a huge difference IMHO.

orthojoe

Yup! Fresh mpsc2 vs heat cycled/worn ones make a huge difference

MaxLTV

+1

That's why I'm not entirely happy with them. With plenty of tread they start handling like all-seasons.

Mech33

Which all-seasons hold 1.1G??

ipse dixit

Maybe the Trofeos in Europe are different than the ones in the U.S. ...

orthojoe

Ps2 on my spyder held 1.1G
Mpss should too