Manifold

I'd love to hear comparisons of the GT3 and GT4 from capable drivers who've driven both, ideally back to back. Might be a while before we get such comparos.

But I see both being great choices for the use you describe, so it may come down to personal preference based on factors like price (GT4 seems a bargain), manual vs PDK (I like both), mid-engine vs rear-engine dynamics (I like both), looks (I prefer GT3), storage space (better in the Cayman), etc. GT3 is faster (closing speed on other cars is borderline embarrassingly fast, at times), but GT4 will be amply fast, even for the fastest run groups.

Jimmy-D

I think it comes down to this. If you can get a GT3 and you do not have a budget get the GT3. The engine and transmission will blow your mind. I think the GT4 is a great value and going to be a great car but you are comparing apples to oranges in terms of engines. I think the GT3 engine is one of the best ones out there today with its 9000 redline and the PDK-S that was built for it

Loess

I had a 2007 Cayman S and loved it. I loved the mid engine feel. I dreamed of a bigger engine in the Cayman for years. I waited and waited and finally gave up hope. I tried a 997 4s and didn't care for the bouncy front end feel. I decided I might as well get a 991 GT3 if Porsche wasn't going to give me the Cayman I wanted.

I got my gt3 and then Porsche announced the gt4 I had always wanted. However the gt3 is incredible. I love the slight rear end balance feel and the massive grip running hard out of a corner. I have no regrets at all and I still haven't run my car past 7k rpm.

Manifold

This highlights the point I was making about some aspects being better appreciated via spirited road driving versus the track.

On the road, the engine sounds fantastic in the top half of the rev range, and using PDK in manual mode can be fun.

On the track, the engine sound is largely drowned out at high speed due to wind noise with the windows down, and I can barely hear the engine when in the proximity of loud race cars (I may need to do side muffler delete). Shifting manually can be fun on the track, but lately I'm preferring leaving in auto and focusing on other aspects of driving.

Manifold

Had a fun morning taking the GT3 on a skidpad. The skidpad was mostly wet, but had some dry areas, and generally had variable grip, so it lacked the uniformity of other wet skidpads I've used, but it still made for a good learning experience. Main observations:

- With my -2.0 cambers, everything else stock, and SC2 tires still in decent shape, the car tends to understeer, and needs a good provocation of throttle to kick the back out. On a dry track, I've also found the car to understeer somewhat in tighter turns, but it seems fairly balanced in medium and fast turns.

- The engine usually shuts off when the car spins.

- The stability control will let the car get fairly out of shape before intervening. And when it does intervene, it does it very effectively, 'clamping the car down' by cutting engine power and slowing the car with the brakes without letting it spin, but doing it in a way which I didn't find disconcerting or counterintuitive.

Overall, the skidpad reinforced my impression that the car will communicate your mistakes without biting you for them, and rewards being driven with some vigor (maybe even 'aggression', but I don't want to send the wrong message ).

fbroen

Did you notice if the car went to neutral, or did you pull paddles? (I have yet to spin a PDK).

Manifold

I'm not sure, but I think so. The engine would typically shut off if the car rolled backwards while spinning; despite being on the brakes, I could feel the ABS working, so I think the car would have to go to neutral to prevent damage. I didn't attempt to pull the paddles, and I actually never use that feature.

Todd B

I did the event yesterday. I came to the same conclusions as you. I did notice at times, I did get ice pedal (super hard brake pedal). I didn't like the fact the car would shutdown, or stall, when I spun. Never got a chance to pull the paddles. Found the easiest control was liberal use of the throttle. The among of grip on the pad was really inconsistent, but the changing surface did make it an interesting challenge.

At the end of the sessions I had a lot of smoking from the rear, figured it was from all the water. Brakes didn't seem hot, and I was running with the nannies off. Guess it could have been the PTV also. Did you notice any from the rear wheel wells?

Spent today cleaning the car.

Todd B

I can't say if the car went to neutral or not, the gear indicator would go out, but at that point the engine was also dead. Never grabbed the paddles and since the wheel was all over the place, it was the first time I really wished the paddles were in a fixed position and not attached to the wheel.

Macca

Ive spun the car twice at the track in the wet (over exuberance!). The cars never stalled. I think the box must momentarily select neutral, its in "1" by the time its stopped moving but has never stalled.

I spent the weekend doing dawn raids with a small group of fast road drivers in the back country roads in the North of New Zealand. The 991 GT3 is an incredible car when you are "on it". I also always drive manual on the road, same geo as Manifold, a little under steery in tight corners but incredible grip and composure overall and a sound to die for (we run windows up at track here and also always on the road). Its filthy now. Big smiles all weekend....

Mike in CA

That's been my experience too.

Good to see you posting again, Mark...

Macca

Thanks Mike :-)

doubleurx

Cheers to that Mark, you and everyone else has been through so much! I know you still have a long way to go, but great to see you back.

I finally got out for a great drive today, after a couple months of down time. What a wife! Even on Mother's Day, she said..."it's too nice a day for you not to take a drive". An hour and a half later I was right back to spend the afternoon with her in the sun.

Todd B

That's interesting. I wonder if it depends on if the nannies are on or off. I had them off and had the car stall multiple times, when put into 360-720 spins.

Manifold

Just got back from a couple days at Watkins Glen with the GT3. Overall, the car was awesome ("this car is fkg incredible!" was the actual phrase I typically used after coming in from sessions). To AP and his team:

Some miscl notes:

- Car was very comfortable on the 4-hr drive each way, other than the steering feeling too heavy on the road (but fine on the track). LWB seats could use more lumbar support, but were fine (but I don't have back problems).

- PDK auto worked well once I got used to it downshifting at corner entry for some corners. The only time I really needed a manual override was coming up the hill for T7, where I dropped to 2nd (PDK programming wasn't smart enough to know that a hill was coming).

- It understeers a bit, but I think I'll leave it as is. I feel faster and safer with a bit of understeer, as compared to a bit of oversteer.

- Brakes felt really good (using PFC 11 and SRF). A little pedal softening and extra travel at the end of the event, but not too bad. May need a bleed. Front rotors are showing some cracking after 1800 track miles, but likely still have good life on them. Rear rotors have almost no cracking.

- SC2 tires are wearing great with -2.0 cambers, still decent life on them, which is impressive. Starting with pressures of 23 to 25 psi didn't appear to damage the tires if I gave 2 or 3 laps to build pressure before leaning on them. Around 30 or 31 hot still seems optimal. And grip is still pretty good. In fact, I was surprised that I was able to consistently widen the gap in corners on a Cayman R on Continental slicks, driven by a CI who was giving it everything he's got. Seems that the harder you lean on the car, the more it digs in and finds yet more grip. Porsche has worked some kind of magic here.

- The car inspires confidence and is very fast, and could hang with some rather fast company (including an actual NASCAR car, lol), which was fun. BUT, don't let the car make you feel invincible: I was sad to see that another 991 GT3 in the top run group did in fact wreck (I don't know the details, but I believe the driver wasn't hurt [physically]). And another instructor with a 991 GT3 (who came from a 997.2 GT3 on Hoosiers) didn't quite seem comfortable with the 991 GT3, so it does appear that there can be some learning curve (and I myself took it fairly easy at my first track event with the car).

The car definitely isn't perfect (gripes have been expressed elsewhere, many times), but overall it's everything I hoped for, given my use, and in some ways has considerably exceeded expectations. We just got an allocation for a GT4, but I have no yearning for one given the satisfaction provided by the GT3, so it'll come down to whether the wife wants to trade her Cayman R for the GT4.