destaccado

Funny how many people here are literally tripping over themselves to claim how wrong I am. Not a single technical claim on how the street GT3 is anything like the actual race GT3. In fact, the only attempt at explaining it used more emotion than fact. Calling me a troll while you guys use emotional arguments to defend the name (and the name only) of your $150,000 car is almost comical.

You don't say? People that spent $150k are going to vehemently defend something that shines even a somewhat negative light on their purchase? Who would have guessed?

As I stated, a car is simply the sum of its parts. ....and what that sum entails is much closer to the street GTS than the race GT3. I guess if Porsche had took a **** in a box and marked it guaranteed that would have been better than the extra year of warranty they gave for the engine failures no?

...and virtually none in common with the GT3 Cup other than some suspension components. It shares derivatives of the engine, transmission, and steering of the GTS. It doesn't share a single portion of the drivetrain with the CUP.

Please. I'm not trying to argue which car is the most raw or most mechanical. I'm simply stating that this car shares nothing with the CUP and therefore isn't really a GT3. I can go back two years ago and the arguments most of the guys posting here were -- "Porsche has every intent to race the 9a1 and use it in the CUP." That's clearly not the case anymore.

Okay. So the spirit of the street GT3 follows after the CUP? Like I said -- emotion instead of fact.

Great. Of course they like a 475hp n/a monster. That doesn't mean it should have been called "GT3"

Wrong. Only one of us is calling the car by a name inspired by the car it has no drivetrain components in common with.

Here you go with the emotion argument again. "The spirit makes this car a GT3" I disagree. Cars do not have a spirit. A car is the sum of its parts.

So the crux of your argument is that the GT3 is a GT3 in spirit and because Porsche says so. Got it. I vehemently disagree. You've eaten up Porsche's marketing hook, line, and sinker.

doubleurx

^^So did you even read the Elephant Racing thread or the quotes from that thread provided for you? Here's a team of suspension specialists that took it apart next to a cup car and stated the new 991 GT3 has more in common with the cup car than past versions..............That seems like some pretty hard data to me.

So a car called a GT3 is the sum of its parts. Well this one outperforms all the past versions, so I would say they add up pretty well. The classic part is you have nothing to back up what you proclaim, thus the Troll comment. Honestly your doing the same thing you did in the other thread when you bashed the 50th anniversary version. Your trolling for a reaction and your getting it, so be happy and just go away.

destaccado

They were referring to the suspension having more in common with previous versions. Something I already stated before you went off on your tangent about it. You're trolling to point out the suspension differences I already acknowledged prior to you even posting them with your elephant racing post I read weeks ago.

You and I have discussed this three times already.

I have all the facts to back up what I'm saying. The engine, steering, transmission, and major drive-train components of the car other than a portion of the suspension as I stated earlier aren't related to the GT3 CUP -- they are derivatives of what's in the GTS.

I think the new GT3 street car is a great car but not a real GT3 except via name.

orthojoe

Compared to a 997, the suspension has more in common with a cup, but not the engine. You gain suspension, but lose the engine (the transmission in a 997 and a 991 are not shared with a cup, so I don't know why you insist on drivetrain when it's just the engine). For that reason you have decided that the car doesn't deserve a GT3 name. Great. You've made your opinion known.

Fellas, it's impossible to change his mind on this. Don't even bother. It's like trying to change the minds of parents that refuse to vaccinate their kids. You can argue till your blue in the face and they won't listen.

Leave it be.

doubleurx

Got it, so let's be sure to not acknowledge probably the most important components of a track car -the suspension.......too funny! You make it sound like previous GT3's were basically cup cars with identical motors, transmissions, brakes etc. They weren't.

Anyway I'm done arguing with you. Good luck with your GTS, great car and obviously your choice....blue in my face!

rwcsn1

Seems to me Porsche is going the way of BMW, making a car for every conceivable segment, so that soccer moms can drive a Porsche etc. Guess it was inevitable with VW as the parent and volume/profits are paramount. Ferrari will head that way too.

hfm

Gee, you've been saying the same thing for over a year.

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...r-carrera.html

Maybe you're just upset that the GT3 has PDK-S that is comparable to an old GT3 cup sequential shifter rather than a GTS that may come equipped with a manual tranny.

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-...7-gt3-cup.html

Why don't you just stick a Carerra GT steering wheel in your soon to be bought GTS so you can refer to it as a Carrera GT and call it a day instead of annoying fellow Porsche enthusiasts?

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-...el-on-gt3.html

Or, perhaps back in 2006 you thought 2007 GT3 were properly called GT3s but something happened between then and now that makes you think a GT3 is really a GTS-R?

Whatever, if you don't like the fact that a GT3 is named a GT3 or, you think it should be named something other than what Porsche intended and you want to think of it as a GTS-R in your own mind, no one is stopping you. You're also welcome to call a pile a crap a bouquet flowers in the rain if that floats your boat. Just be advised, people might disagree with you...but, you're probably used to that and have been your entire life.

Dan (is reminder of Shatner's "get a life!" comment on SNL)

reidry

0:48s, Andreas Preuninger states, "it's a lot more similar to the cup car's gearbox than to the 991 carrera's PDK gearbox"


1:34s, Andreas Preuninger states, "specific and with very much effort a modified PDK box, modified for the GT3 with lighter gearing, 7 gears for driving, so there's no overdrive so we reach top speed in 7th gear and some other hardware changes and software changes are quite substantial"


I can't find it at the moment, however IIRC the e-differential is also unique in that it allows the engine to be even farther forward "over" the rear axle pushing CG forward.

Here Elephant Racing states, "First thing we need to mention is that the GT3 suspension varies significantly from other 991 generation cars. This car has modified bushings, bearings and significantly redesigned control arms and wheel carriers. Some of the technology is borrowed from the current and previous generation of the GT3 Cup car, but First thing we need to mention is that the GT3 suspension varies significantly from other 991 generation cars. This car has modified bushings, bearings and significantly redesigned control arms and wheel carriers. Some of the technology is borrowed from the current and previous generation of the GT3 Cup car, but many more items were designed along with the current production line of the GT3 Cup many more items were designed along with the current production line of the GT3 Cup." and "Front control arm (or lower wishbone as it's sometimes called) has been redesigned for the GT3, but the functionality stayed the same. We've seen the same design in the previous generation (997) GT3 Cup cars (track-only version of the GT3)." and "The GT3s now share the rear suspension components with the 991 Cup cars."

http://www.elephantracing.com/tool-b...n-overview.htm

We know the chassis is identical between the 991 GT3 and the 991 GT America Cup Car. Many of the body panels are identical, I happen to have a Cup rear bumper and it is identical to the street car part.

Braking systems - both 991 GT3 and 991 Cup use 380 front and rear brakes. The Carrera S uses 340 mm / 330 mm. This is because "Other than missing the lower tie rod bracket, the GT3 (front) upright seems identical to the Cup car. "

http://www.elephantracing.com/tool-b...Comparison.htm

991 GT3, just like the 997.2, uses centerlock hubs and wheels. 991 GT3 version is reportedly improved and track time out is longer than 997.2 version. Regardless of how we all feel about centerlocks, they do resemble the centerlock technology used on the Cup.

You may not like the rear wing, however "GT3 rear wing, it generates 120kg of downforce at the car’s top speed of 315kph, which is 20 per cent more downforce over the 997 GT3." Just so we're clear, fiberglass is a composite material that uses a woven fabric just like Carbon Fiber. Carbon fiber is stiffer and stronger, it is not necessarily lighter - the specific application must be taken into account in the design of the part. Oh and visible carbon isn't "race car" it's "cars and coffee".

The GT3 motor "weighing 227.5kg, or 20.9kg less than the Mezger's legendary unit" makes more power 475 hp from 3.8L than the Mezger 4.0L at 470 hp. While the longer term reliability hasn't been answered, the engine is bespoke to the 991 GT3 sharing only the base casting, the head bolts and the alternator with the base carrera. Note that no components from the 991 GT3 engine are incorporated in any of the other 991 offerings. The engine development was solely for GT car use. IMHO a variant of this powerplant will be present in the 991 GT3RS. I also believe that the DFI motor or a modification thereof will find it's way to racing event at the Super Cup level as motorsports "green" initiatives eliminate the Mezger as a viable alternative. Also remember that cost of producing the Mezger engine goes both ways. When Mezger components were being used in the production line for the Turbo and GT3, motorsport benefited from reduced per unit costs. Motorsport teams using the 991 GT America are now carrying the cost burden for the vast majority of Mezger parts, with the repair parts for previous generation Mezger based cars carrying the remainder.

http://gulfnews.com/life-style/motor...ewed-1.1221981

IMHO there is sufficient similarity between the 997 Cup / 991 Cup and the 991 GT3 to say that it is bringing race car technology to the street which is what the GT3 has always been.

Ryan

orthojoe

^ nice summary. You would think that would be very convincing, but the guy still won't buy into 'vaccination'. They usually start citing pseudo science at this point...

hfm

Ryan

Very nice post.

Dan (but, expects it to fall upon dogmatic and dead ears)

hfm

Yeah, and he probably thinks there was no moon landing either.

Dan (knows a tin foil hatter when he sees one)

reidry

Thank you guys.

I also expect it to fall on deaf ears, but I felt it needed to be said.

And least I forget, I can drive a manual including heel/toe.

Ryan

orthojoe

Heel/toe.

I had to laugh out loud when I read this in the article you linked:

And then nine thousand revolutions per minute happen — the pistons are jabbing away at over 23 meters per second, covering 84 kilometres per hour with their tiny stroke of 77.5mm. The forces at play are astounding, translated, rationalised by your mind and ears like a simple inevitability. Hans Mezger must be proud at what his legacy inspired.

Wut??? That's not what all the stalwarts think... Weird....

destaccado

How ironic that you'd say my desire to replace the 997 GT3 wheel with a Carrera GT wheel would make me call it a Carrera GT; when you're supporting the side that a couple suspension components in common with the real GT3 make the street variant be one.

...and yes - I thought the GT3 was really just a sportier Carrera a year ago. Many of the arguments made then were that Porsche would be racing the motor in the GT3 Cup shortly; that obviously never happened.

orthojoe

But it causes autism!!!