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***I commend both of you for what you have said & the position you have taken. 'Chicago Whale'
deserves to be 'heard' (and, more importantly, 'understood') if anyone here on Rennlist is truly
interested in engaging in a serious conversation on this topic! I simply ask some folks here that
are constantly making declarations about 'good dealers' (mainly those that they deal with & receive
benefit) and denigrading others for sins that their 'good dealers' are equally guilty of, to please
rethink their statements and be more honest & conscientious with our forum. Just recently on
this thread I found disturbing the undeserved harrasment of a female 'chat professional' at Walter's
with sophomoric / misogynist high jinks!
And the response to this harrasment should not be 'HahahahA' from any of us...much less from
a Porsche dealer principal!No, we were once a better place.
And hopefully, we will be that
place again!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
Eduardo, why don't you apply for a moderator position on Rennlist? You seem to communicate with them more than they do with each other.
Of course the forum should be shaped in your vision and your control of all comments and subject matter. Eduardo doesn't approve? You get the axe, or get beat with a Scottsdale cactus. Of course it couldn't be from Phoenix, because Scottsdale cactuses are more desirable? Actually cacti are protected, you you may have to stick with the whipping stick.
We all know you seem to think you're the smartest man in the Porsche universe, and like to be the reality star of Rennlist, but unfortunately you have to share the spotlight sometimes.
The unfortunate thing is, you are very knowledgeable on many topics, but haven't graduated out of high school mean girls class.
Maybe start a private Eduardo ONLY forum with secret invitations to participate?
I just know that everyone has a voice here within the Rennlist forum rules like it or not.
I will say this- there is nothing uncommon for Dealerships to buy sought after cars from other Dealers with ADMs to sell on their own floor. This has been going on for a long time. I have seen non-Porsche Dealerships buying cars from Porsche Dealers to sell themselves.
I guess we’ll pretend you and Whoopsy were talking about completely different situations, even though it’s very clear you weren’t.
Let’s move on to another matter. This is specifically about ADM’s, which is the topic of this thread.
I had dinner with someone last night and your name came up. I’d like to ask you a point-blank question: Did you have a friend put GT3 deposits down at multiple Porsche dealerships across the country with the intent of bringing them back to your store to flip?
Friend pays $15K over. Co-list it and/or flip it through Fresno for $25k-$40k over?
Rinse, wash, repeat 4 times in 30 days.
It’s a perfect opportunity for you to squash that rumor. (I hope).
Remember that black GT3 you recently had co-listed with the Auto Gallery a few weeks back with a huge ADM? And now there are 3 more GT3’s being sold through your store with ADM’s?
That’s more than Champion, Beverly Hills and the largest stores in the country. For such an exceptionally small store (4 CPO RDR’s last month), you seem to have more “used” GT3’s with ADM than you do normal CPO sales.
There are people who watch this stuff. They have access to the VIN’s and they know where the cars originate. A few phone calls later, and it’s clear what happened.
You’ve spent an entire year disparaging PCNA and Porsche dealers on these pages about this very subject, and yet here you are - squarely in the middle of multiple GT3 ADM’s.
I’m curious. I thought you were completely against the ADM games?
I will say this- there is nothing uncommon for Dealerships to buy sought after cars from other Dealers with ADMs to sell on their own floor. This has been going on for a long time. I have seen non-Porsche Dealerships buying cars from Porsche Dealers to sell themselves.
Agreed and is it really an ADM when it is not the original sale? I mean if you are a dealer and buy a car from a dealer/private party and you pay say $180K for a $170K sticker but then you turn around and sell it for $190K isn't that just business so you can offer your customers some tough to find cars and maybe they will buy a Macan for the wife. Almost all P dealers have technically used cars that are over sticker, go look at PNH. If a P dealer is too small to get allocations and the few they do get they sell to good customers at MSRP, great. But if they are in need of a few hard to get models they go buy them used just like you and I could and hopefully they can move them for a few bucks.
Apples to oranges in my mind vs selling a BRAND NEW allocation at over sticker.
I will say this- there is nothing uncommon for Dealerships to buy sought after cars from other Dealers with ADMs to sell on their own floor. This has been going on for a long time. I have seen non-Porsche Dealerships buying cars from Porsche Dealers to sell themselves.
Originally Posted by goin2drt
Agreed and is it really an ADM when it is not the original sale? I mean if you are a dealer and buy a car from a dealer/private party and you pay say $180K for a $170K sticker but then you turn around and sell it for $190K isn't that just business so you can offer your customers some tough to find cars and maybe they will buy a Macan for the wife. Almost all P dealers have technically used cars that are over sticker, go look at PNH. If a P dealer is too small to get allocations and the few they do get they sell to good customers at MSRP, great. But if they are in need of a few hard to get models they go buy them used just like you and I could and hopefully they can move them for a few bucks.
Apples to oranges in my mind vs selling a BRAND NEW allocation at over sticker.
unfortunately, that’s not the argument CW is making in his post. I’m sure he is well aware of the shenanigans dealers do to get sought after cars. He is bringing to light one dealer in particular that uses these shenanigans then turns around and disparages others for playing those same ADM games. I, at least, appreciate the transparency he has outlined.
Commoditization of GT cars has been occuring for some time now, both in the new/dealership sales and secondary market realm.
This much most of us agree on.
But I think there are very much business interests being preserved or furthered by being in the "good guy" club. Of which I think ChicagoWhale and privately held by others as a rather hear-say, online/public reputation kinda thing. Rather nebulous.
Delivery may not be our favorite dissenter's forte, but I find some evidence of his knowledge privvy and genuine.
I think it's good to hear all sides, even if that bucks your world view
Eduardo, why don't you apply for a moderator position on Rennlist? You seem to communicate with them more than they do with each other.
Of course the forum should be shaped in your vision and your control of all comments and subject matter. Eduardo doesn't approve? You get the axe, or get beat with a Scottsdale cactus. Of course it couldn't be from Phoenix, because Scottsdale cactus's are more desirable.
We all know you seem to think you're the smartest man in the Porsche universe, and like to be the reality star of Rennlist, but unfortunately you have to share the spotlight sometimes.
The unfortunate thing is, you are very knowledgeable on many topics, but haven't graduated out of high school mean girls class.
Maybe start a private Eduardo ONLY forum with secret invitations to participate?
I just know that everyone has a voice here within the Rennlist forum rules like it or not.
I think what Eduardo is alluding to is the Rennlist used to be an elite Porsche technical forum, where virtually every posts used to be positive and constructive, and where people used to respect each other's opinions and debate facts only (Crazy, right?). It not that anymore. There are some new members (again, within the last 3-4 years) with sub-par maturity level (who sometimes pretend to be internet best friends) that make biased and frivolous statements without any regard for facts, objectivity, or common sense. As a results, this place now looks like an elementary school at times. I'm in my mid thirties, and its shocking to see some of the comments some 40-50 year olds here now make (name calling, insults, bullying, etc). I had never seen that here before when I first joined. You'd think that people (successful enough to own any Porsche) would apply the same principles that led to their success in every aspect of life, including how they address others (whether online or not).
I think what Eduardo is alluding to is the Rennlist used to be an elite Porsche technical forum, where virtually every posts used to be positive and constructive, and where people used to respect each other's opinions and debate facts only (Crazy, right?). It not that anymore. There are some new members (again, within the last 3-4 years) with sub-par maturity level (who sometimes pretend to be internet best friends) that make biased and frivolous statements without any regard for facts, objectivity, or common sense. As a results, this place now looks like an elementary school at times. I'm in my mid thirties, and its shocking to see some of the comments some 40-50 year olds here now make (name calling, insults, bullying, etc). I had never seen that here before when I first joined. You'd think that people (successful enough to own any Porsche) would apply the same principles that led to their success in every aspect of life, including how they address others (whether online or not).
+ Juan
I couldn't have said it better myself. The RL I remember and loved has long departed.
I think what Eduardo is alluding to is the Rennlist used to be an elite Porsche technical forum, where virtually every posts used to be positive and constructive, and where people used to respect each other's opinions and debate facts only (Crazy, right?). It not that anymore. There are some new members (again, within the last 3-4 years) with sub-par maturity level (who sometimes pretend to be internet best friends) that make biased and frivolous statements without any regard for facts, objectivity, or common sense. As a results, this place now looks like an elementary school at times. I'm in my mid thirties, and its shocking to see some of the comments some 40-50 year olds here now make (name calling, insults, bullying, etc). I had never seen that here before when I first joined. You'd think that people (successful enough to own any Porsche) would apply the same principles that led to their success in every aspect of life, including how they address others (whether online or not).
I know very well what Eduardo is alluding too all too well .... by the way, all of which he has made zero contributions to this threads topic.
It is what it is. The Rennlist/Internet Brands team can take any action they seem appropriate if not happy with the loss of "Elite Status".
One can choose to participate here or not.
I will say that the dealer drama surrounding these cars is the root cause of all the talk many would consider not to their pedigree.
I think one can have a little fun here while still staying on topic of the forums topics. That said, there are so many threads with different topics. Anyone has the freedom to post what they want.
Maybe Eduardo will start an "Elite Club" by invitation only. Should keep the trouble makers out. Seems like you may have a card in the mail already That being said, I won't hold my breath
Eduardo plays the game of good/bad Rennlister instead of dealer. Is one better than the other?
The black car we sold came from a dealer in LA that was sold to an individual - he consigned it to my store, we sold it for 3k profit. I have a lot of local customers that want these cars. Local customer traded in his silver Gt3RS.
Previously I had a customer request a manual Gt3. I found one for him through a broker that was working part time for me. I arranged it. He took delivery. I fired the broker during the process for unrelated stuff so I had to handle it myself. Customer got a very early car and was happy. I made 3000, broker made 3000 (still paid him) and dealer sold car to us for 15k over. So he made 30k roughly. Shipping was 2k.
In regards to multiple GT cars for sale? All the GT cars allocated to my EHB are msrp and going to customers based on their purchase history with my dealership. The incoming Carmine red touring (MSRP) and the GT3's behind that are all going at MSRP. Do you want their addresses?
Yes my store specializes in GT cars and 911 CPO as a result of the secondary market demand. We sold about 40 CPO cars in the last 12 months (up from 15 from previous owner) with 75% of those being GT4, GT3, GT3RS, GT2RS. We also specialize in "go find me this" type of hunts like a broker where someone local or via RL or whatever says they want a Mexico Blue GT3 991.1 and we get them that car. People are currently texting or emailing me asking for open spec slots for GT3 cars right now and saying that they will pay 15k over or 25k over. If someone who I have never met says "hey I want one" I say:
"Almost every dealer made their list 6+ months ago. You are very late. You will probably have to buy someone else's car. You will probably have to pay 20-30k over because that is the current rate. " If they say "ok that's fine" then I try to find them a car. I generally make 3-5k on that transaction.
I was specifically speaking the whole time about the 991.1RS situation. Whoopsy has intimate knowledge about another car, another dealer etc.
I have been very clear the entire time that what I think is slimy is using someone's name to get a car and then not letting them buy the car at msrp. Alternatively- telling them you are auctioning off their car once it lands is also bad practice. But hey they're the ones who spent 40-50M on buildings and land etc and I'm not in that league. I'm ok not being in that league right now.
I want a GT2RS so instead of taking my VIP's car or the first allocated car to my store I did a deal with another dealership to acquire one of theirs. In the past I have paid ADM because I wanted the car badly enough (riviera blue RS) which is- to some justifiable as one of my customers put it:
"The ADM was probably 50% of what you would have lost if you bought an F12 at sticker"
The black car we sold came from a dealer in LA that was sold to an individual - he consigned it to my store, we sold it for 3k profit. I have a lot of local customers that want these cars. Local customer traded in his silver Gt3RS.
Previously I had a customer request a manual Gt3. I found one for him through a broker that was working part time for me. I arranged it. He took delivery. I fired the broker during the process for unrelated stuff so I had to handle it myself. Customer got a very early car and was happy. I made 3000, broker made 3000 (still paid him) and dealer sold car to us for 15k over. So he made 30k roughly. Shipping was 2k.
In regards to multiple GT cars for sale? All the GT cars allocated to my EHB are msrp and going to customers based on their purchase history with my dealership. The incoming Carmine red touring (MSRP) and the GT3's behind that are all going at MSRP. Do you want their addresses?
Yes my store specializes in GT cars and 911 CPO as a result of the secondary market demand. We sold about 40 CPO cars in the last 12 months (up from 15 from previous owner) with 75% of those being GT4, GT3, GT3RS, GT2RS. We also specialize in "go find me this" type of hunts like a broker where someone local or via RL or whatever says they want a Mexico Blue GT3 991.1 and we get them that car. People are currently texting or emailing me asking for open spec slots for GT3 cars right now and saying that they will pay 15k over or 25k over. If someone who I have never met says "hey I want one" I say:
"Almost every dealer made their list 6+ months ago. You are very late. You will probably have to buy someone else's car. You will probably have to pay 20-30k over because that is the current rate. " If they say "ok that's fine" then I try to find them a car. I generally make 3-5k on that transaction.
I was specifically speaking the whole time about the 991.1RS situation. Whoopsy has intimate knowledge about another car, another dealer etc.
I have been very clear the entire time that what I think is slimy is using someone's name to get a car and then not letting them buy the car at msrp. Alternatively- telling them you are auctioning off their car once it lands is also bad practice. But hey they're the ones who spent 40-50M on buildings and land etc and I'm not in that league. I'm ok not being in that league right now.
I want a GT2RS so instead of taking my VIP's car or the first allocated car to my store I did a deal with another dealership to acquire one of theirs. In the past I have paid ADM because I wanted the car badly enough (riviera blue RS) which is- to some justifiable as one of my customers put it:
"The ADM was probably 50% of what you would have lost if you bought an F12 at sticker"
Let me correct you... the black GT3 was sold to your friend who is a dealer in Los Angeles. It originated in Ohio at $15k over. Please do not try to separate the dealer and your friend - they are one in the same.
I don't have the time right now to discuss the remainder of your post, and to be honest I doubt I will. I will let the readers decide for themselves.
Let me correct you... the black GT3 was sold to your friend who is a dealer in Los Angeles. It originated in Ohio at $15k over. Please do not try to separate the dealer and your friend - they are one in the same.
I don't have the time right now to discuss the remainder of your post, and to be honest I doubt I will. I will let the readers decide for themselves.
02-08-2018, 12:10 PM
That being said, I won't hold my breath 
