Bill Ball

Yes, select "Go advanced" button in the reply area, scroll down and you will see the "Manage Attachments" button that allows you to attach a doc file as well as other types.

AO

You can email it to me and I can post it as a graphic if needed. andrewmolson at yahoo dot com

atb

Here it is.

RichS 1986928

Alan, when you say

"The simplest solution is to connect the Brown/White wire from the hatch release motor to a permanent ground. If you do this you will lose the interlock on the hatch pull(s) too, but you can open the hatch at any time. "

What do you mean by "lose the interlock on the hatch pull(s)" ???????????????

Alan

Rich - by interlock I mean the fact that the hatch pull switches don't work unless a door is open. if you just change the hatch motor connections to a permanent ground and make no other changes - the hatch release pull switches will release the hatch at any time... I modified these so they would have the same as stock operation via the new hatch relay. The hatch relay coil is connected to 12v on one side and both the KE unit -ve hatch O/P and the hatch pull switch(es) output. The other side of the switches now goes to the switched ground (that used to feed the hatch motor). Door interlock restored to the switches - but not the KE unit.

Alan

RichS 1986928

Gotcha, thanks, Personally I'd rather have the hatch release work with the doors shut anyway.

Alan

Adam,
I looked at your diagram but its pretty meaningless to me... you need to provide us with some more details - seems this relies on certain connections to your alarm/KE unit that aren't defined as well as the CE connections specific to your model year. It would be nice to label the functions there to aid in the translation to other years.

I see you used 2 relays for the hatch - as I noted you really only need 1.

I see no horn relay - so I assume you are using the siren that comes with the alarm?. For confirmation I would recommend you flash the turn signals rather than the markers - they are easier to see in daylight - method is exactly the same just different connections.

Alan

atb

Alan wrote:
Hi Alan, yeah the schematic is still a draft. I'm using it to install my system, and then I'll clean it up for general use. I posted it because I thought there would be interest in how to hook up the hatch switch, which is the only clean part of the diagram.

Uhhh, scratch the first part of what I posted.

Thanks for catching this Alan. I am planning on using car's horn, not the supplied one. The alarm instructions don't indicate the use of a relay, just tapping into the horn at the switch. I take it that tapping into where the horn switch comes into the fuse panel won't work then?

I am starting to wire the system to the car. I started last night by wiring up the hatch pins and running the two power leads to run the system.

I was going to wire in the rest of the system last night, and pulled all the approriate terminal plugs, but then realized that I couldn't identify in what orientation the terminal pins are numbered. Anyone have any input or reference a WSM page number? They are 10-pin terminals, numbered 11-15 and 21-25. With the terminal plugged into the base of the fuse panel, how are the terminals numbered?

Thanks.

Alan

Adam,
I don't recommend using 2 relays if you can get by with one - just one more electrical thing that can go wrong... we've all BTDT right...

The stock alarm has a seperate horn from the main horn... the relay for this is integrated into the alarm module so to use it you need a separate relay. You could possibly just use the regular horn/horn relay - but Porsche built it this way so it would be harder & less obvious how to defeat the alarm...

Pins: If you look inside the sockets the pins are labelled (but not on the plugs).

Looking at the rear of the CE plugs facing the installed panel: 11 is bottom left, 15 is lop left, 21 is bottom right and 25 is top right.


What I'd do for the hatch releases if you want to keep stock interlock operation.

1) Swap the hatch motor switched ground for a permanent ground.

2) Disconnect the Yellow wire (from the hatch switches) at the hatch motor.

2) Take the disconnected switched ground wire (BR/WT) and connect it to the yellow wire from the hatch switch(es).

3) At the hatch switch(es) remove the red wire(s) and cap it(them) off.

4) Connect the now empty hatch switch terminal (or terminals of both switches together) with a wire across the front of the car (e.g. forward & under dash) - connect this also to the hatch relay coil (85) the other side of coil (86)goes to fused +12v batt.

5) To the coil side connected to the switch(es) (85) connect the +ve side of a 1A diode - connect the -ve side of that diode (white ring) to the KE module hatch release output (-ve).

6) Connect the hatch release relay input (30) to fused +12v batt and the output (87) to the hatch release motor yellow wire*.

A thought to check out...
Its possible if you have dual hatch release switches that the wiring to them is quite seperate right from the motor (2 yellow wires to the motor connector?). If so you can avoid any new wiring at the back by using one of the yellow wires as noted here and the other for the hatch release relay O/P? (I'm not sure if they are run seperately like this? but the wiring diagam looks like it...) if yes - its even easier - you just need to run 2 wires across the front of the car instead of 1 and connect the release switches in parallel. Someone check this!!

Attached is my prototype install - looks very similar - its a little different now. This is a great location if the amp is already gone.

Alan

Bill Ball

OK, I'm back at this again, installing a keyless system in a 91 S4. Now, 91-95 seem identical in terms of keyless door and hatch wiring. I read over this thread and a few other threads again, and Alan's post above got me looking at this from a different way. I came up with a wiring method that requires no wires going across the car (between the hatch pulls on a 91) or to the rear hatch motor area. All wire cuts or pulls are at or near the CE panel. A variation on this could be applied to earlier cars, but here is what I have form 91-95, borrowed heavily from Alan, of course, but with some twists by using wires at the CE panel. The earlier cars do not have these wire points, but there are other alternatives.

Oddly this is deja vu all over again, as I came up with the same idea 2 years ago and promptly forgot it... https://rennlist.com/forums/6707467-post39.html

T19 is a 26 pin connector hidden behind the LH & EZK - they need to come out for access. I will cut or pull wires there and at the CE panel instead of at the hatch pulls and the hatch motor. Also, the wiring diagram appears to have a labelling error, showing that the passenger hatch pull gets power via pin2 on connector T1. Neither pull gets power there. Both are powered from F13 on the CE panel.

borland

Bill,

Here's some related info I posted from your thread specifically for Keyless Entry on a '90 S4. My keyless install requires no trunk/hatch motor wiring mods...


https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...problem-3.html

-------------------------------------------

Here's the way I prepped the factory wiring for a Keyless Entry on my 1990 S4. Factory wiring mods in three parts..

- To allow greater than 1/2 second locking pulses, I added two diodes (1N4001). The diodes can be mounted on a small strip of perf board, then covered in shrink wrap. The wiring carries into the second image, where the lower diode is wired to pin 2 of the alarm controller. Fortunately, the controllers are in the same location. This mod maintains factory windows-up-with-key feature.



- Then, for the trunk release I added a mini DPDT relay (2 amp rated).



The DPDT relay also temporarily provides the special ground (normally disabled with doors closed) for the tailgate unlocking drive. The keyless pulls the relay coil to ground, providing +12V to the tailgate unlatching drive from the Central Electronics Panel at Connector O11.



The DPDT eliminates the need for modifying the tailgate unlatching mechanism ground, while maintaining the factory safety feature of pull switches only work an open door. I used another 1N4001 diode across the relay coil.

- And finally, for a Interior-Lights-On-With-Disarm/Unlock feature, a single diode (1N4001) wired between the Seat Belt Relay (928.618.102.03) and the Additional Control Unit Alarm System (929.637.160.00). Both relay sockets are located under the stereo head unit in the center console.





So, for my aftermarket keyless Entry connection points:

KE receiver was mounted to underside of dash with velcro, directly under steering column. (Functions implemented – Lock&Arm, Unlock&Disarm, Flash Lights, & Trunk Release)

1. Trunk Release Mechanism (-) - To added DPDT relay coil

Central Electronics Panel:
(located in passenger foot well)

1. Left Turn Signal - Connector H25 (BK/GN)
2. Right Turn Signal – Connector J21 (BK/WT)
3. Added Trunk Release Relay Output - Tailgate Release Mechanism +12V – Connector O11 (YE)
Note: I also used two large diodes (6A) between the left and right turn signal connections and the KE unit's light flash output wire. These were also mounted on a small strip of perf board and covered in shrink wrap.

Additional Control Unit Alarm System (928.637.160.00):
(located in center console, below stereo head unit)

1. +12V Constant, CE panel fused @7.5A, Pin 4 (RE)
2. Chassis Ground (-), Pin 3 (BR)
3. Tailgate Unlocking Drive Ground (-), Pin 1 (BR/WT)
4. Lock (Armed), Pin 2 (BR/YE)
5. Unlock (Disarm), Pin 9 (BR/GN)

Bill Ball

Hi Brian:

Did the diodes for 1/2 second pulse resolve unintended window blip?

I'm still in the process with this 91 and not sure if my scheme will work or cause the same problem. Also, the wiring diagram and what I'm actually seeing for the hartch pull wiring don't seem to agree 100%.

borland

Bill,

Yes, the diodes isolate the window/sunroof controller from the KE lock/unlock pulses, while still allowing the door key function. Since it is isolated, when the KE is energized to lock the car doors, it won't sense the door lock is being held by the owner's key for longer than 1/2 second. Most KE models pulse longer than 1/2 second.

Bill Ball

Brian: I had a fun time getting to T19. In 91 it's actually buried even worse than in your 90. There is a welded bracket in the way. HOW DID YOU ROUTE THE GROUND TO THE HATCH MOTOR W/O RUNNING A WIRE TO THE REAR? I'm looking for something other than T19. Does your method temporarily act like a door pin? I.e, do the interior lights come on when you hit the remote to open the hatch? I suppose that's fine.

borland

Without the mod, the interior lights come on with the hatch being opened from the outside by use of the key (or by KE trunk release). So, no change there. KE only turns on the interior lights when the remote unlocks the doors. For '91 and later cars, this is a factory feature (lights on with unlock). So, I was just implementing that as an update for '90.

As for the ground for the hatch motor, all the wires/connection_points for both lock/unlock and hatch release were wired into the car from under the center console. Other than the output from the added relay (+12V) to activate the hatch motor, no wires to route since the special hatch ground is already there.

That is the case for the '90, I don't know about the other year cars, but you could look at the wiring diagrams to see. The only exception is the outside lights which require connections at the CE panel.