whalebird

I doubt an easy-out is going to do it. If the plug's steel is still in the head I would gingerly work with a qualty socket and a breaker bar. The impact will definitly get something done, maybe just not what you want. It would be a last resort. I am curious if the plug was cross-threaded. It would be hard to tell, but a visual inspection could lead one in the right direction if it appears slightly scewed compared to the other plugs if you know what I mean. If that were the case I would drop the motor and assume the worse. If the plug looks square to the head as it should, I would use deliberate pressure with a breaker bar - 1/2 inch drive with as short an extension as possible and shallow 6-point socket(broken porcelin should allow) in order to apply the torque most effectivly. I know it seems underkill, but I would soak it in PB blaster over night and continue the breaker bar. Slow constant pressure - increasing slowly is preferable to sharp jabs as an impact does. Maybe (long shot) applying heat with a heat gun to loosen the alu. head combined with PB and consitent pressure from the breaker bar.
Keep us posted Doyle. Good luck.

theiceman

^^^^^ +1

even if the socket steel is busted off from the threads you could try this method with the easy out ... as it would be a last resort anyway ... personally I would not use an impact gun on a head ... but that is just my ignant opinion ..

great thread though with some great ideas .. sorry it is at your expense Shepp

dshepp806

Thanx Ice (appreciate the kind words) and WBird (observations always good).

Didn't have time to deal with wrench this AM so I hope to be getting over there this afternoon to have a look-see. We have talked over the phone and have covered off of the baseline costs for what we see now, so I've told him to go ahead and drop her...should be down this afternoon. Will split the tranny and look-see.

We discussed some leak areas,...well,..sheeit,..YOU guys know the "while you're in there thing" better than I......some problems to fix (plug aside),..some things you need to go ahead and change out (fuel lines, gaskets, etc.) I'll cover off later, as I have to run for now.

In closing, I asked James about hitting it with impact and he said no,..it would be drilled (that was his answer),...we didn't get into the specifics of what EXACTLY was left down there to work with (if anything). He made no mention of angulation of the plug,...(good point)

I'll get to all that later.......didn't get much sleep last night, researching threads,..parts orders,.......coffee and xanax. Luckily, work's only a 1/2 day for today....
I'm bushed,....it's like having your kid in the frikin hospital...................

Anniversary and NY's Eve tonite,..all rolled up into one package...we'll celebrate (or, for me: medicate, ala' First Growths) but I'm constantly thinking of the P-baby.

Will check in a bit later guys.

My best,

Doyle

whalebird

Dude it's gonna be fine. You think it was good before you started this process, you will be thrilled when this is over. Only take a couple of weeks TOPS - Otherwise a few days. Even if the plug lunches the threads in the head, there are good, effective, ways of repair without removing the head and I understand the risks. Just remind yourself that the car is your friend, the techs working on it are there to make improvements, not damage.
You envision destruction, but it's going to be ok. "Illusion is painfully shattered...Right were discovery starts"

All the best in 2010. Happy anniversary as well.

Ed Hughes

Hey, I like that quote!

It's applied to Ruby over and over the last few years.

whalebird

I suppose a credit is mandatory.

"Illusion is painfully shattered...Right were discovery starts"
Penned by Neil Peart for the song "Emotion Detector" by Rush on the album "Power Windows"

Dshepp806 and I enjoy a fellowship as Rush fans. The phrase is a good one and applies to many things in life.
I take joy in my Rennlist discussions beyond the technical matters.
Happy New Years Everybody.

dshepp806

AMEN WHALEBIRD !!!!!!!!!!!!! A fellowship, 4-sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Damned good credit.........too!!!!!!!!!!

HNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...I do believe you're gonna' be right!!!!!!!!

rusnak

I guess the hex part broke off. It's only a thin shell around the porcelin. Sounds like what is left is a hole. A machinist will be able to drill out the threads on a bench and repair the old threads with a time cert.

dshepp806

I'll know tomorrow,...shop's closed but James is coming in to work and to meet with me.....

Just an FYI,..I'm running a redundant thread over at Pelican:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...ss-1-plug.html

Are you talking head removal here?

Say no, Rusnak???

Doyle

Daniel Dudley

I just had abdominal surgery, so I can relate to where you are coming from in a very personal way...

Nice of him to come in on a Holiday. Must be a good guy.

dshepp806

He is a good guy. Very knowledgeable with a great Porsche mechanic on board his shop (Serge de le Bruyere). I really trust these guys, as they're noted for being VERY particular with their work.

I'm so frikin' hung over this A.M., that I forgot whether he said today or Saturday !!!!!!! I'll simply await his call and have the camera charged up.

...more "data" to come..

2010 will be better than 2009, right?

I wish you the best on your recovery, Daniel.

I've a myleogram scheduled for next Thursday (no fun there...) to ID a ruptured "O-RING" in my neck !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Didn't see that particular replacement part at PP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Best,

dshepp806

Although this thread is running over on PP, thought I'd post the afternoon's comments:

Hope you guys don't mind, as I know some of you refuse to head over there!!!!!!!

POST>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Just to add: I sure felt better after speaking with James on the labor process/expensing of the "parts" installation. I'm sitting here thinking there would possibly be ind. charges for each part installed but was comforted in being reminded of what I already knew but ignored: that the parts installations would be extremely quick,..one could get a lot done in an hour with the engine on the ground. New thermostat Viton, repair a broken-off thermostat stud, new pressure switch, breather gasket, new driver side oil return tubes, new flex fuel lines, valve adjustment, fix any rocker walk issues, new V/C gaskets/washers (gray), nyloks., new clutch slave cylinder flex line, etc...these type of things. He drew the analogy of looking for the fruitcake,..finding it,..everything you need is RIGHT THERE (engine out or fruitcake in the can),..indulge,..done somewhat compactly and quickly,...I felt better. These particular items I don't really anticipate extraneous labor,..in fact, it will be smaller than expected. In light, I've no problem with engine R/R labor portion of $500. The valve adjustment process includes oil change (I provide ALL parts-BP 20W50, Mahle oil filter, seal, crush washers, etc.) for ~100 towards the total labor costs.

NOW, the spark plug extraction process is estimated to be ~$200 of the total labor bill with VC adjustments.

I've got $150 in it so far, on the clock.

I've got to discuss further the $500 charge (parts/labor to deal with many seals (crank? I/bearing, pulley, etc [MANY]........cracking the tranny open and checking (she was given' a clean bill of health (BTW) and any tranny seal(s)? Some of this labor will cover (I guess) the necc labor to remedy any rocker-related issues. Also relates to inspection of both reference sensors,..will replace if found to be brittle-up....new CHT will be installed

I've a side issue (problem) with something to do with the compressor mounting plate. I'm quite aware of an existing stripped thred on one of the comp's (3) mounting bolts...I do get minor vibration when running through the gears (above4500 RPMs) WITH the compressor engaged....always wondered about this. In any case, James wants to remove the muffler to be able to look at something relating to the mounting plate...will know more on this tomorrow. When I think of fighting those rusty bolts on the exhaust (muffler) , I see possible labor hours escalation,..on the other hand, Serge is a no nonsense kind of wrench that knows exactly how to get those off and fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I bet that's the case, too !!!) Not a big deal, at all,..in his world. (again, THAT's why she's at the Pros right now,..expectations are higher, no?)



I'be sure to ask as many questions as possible to share with the group,..he really is a good teacher,..but VERY busy. Will get some pics for you guys.

Am pricing the needed parts for an overnight shipment on Monday to make sure he's ready to go. I do realize that his charges would possibly be higher than PP's (somewhat expected, actually) but will let him know what quotes I provide for his comparisons...I think it fair, to him. Hell, he's the one allowing use of MY parts bin within this work project. I think this to be positive, in that one could encounter parts performance issues that could (maybe) be significant,...not good it it's YOUR part that failed after the completed work. His only request (requirement, actually) is that Porsche parts are used...no problem there, as that's all I have !!!!!!!!!! On the other hand, I DO own Wayne a deep gratitude for the information paased within our NG,..it's (simpy) priceless. And for that, I'll not dicker over small $$ beans,..I owe this group: period,..I owe Wayne for making it available.

She arrived at his place running quite well...with a fresh dist. cap, rotor button, 5 new plugs, a cleaned ICV, new air filter, new fuel filter (after a healthy dose of Techron), fresh MobileOne Delvac in the G50 (an shifting epiphany) that yielded absolutely NOTHIN (black goo, maybe) on the magnet=no metal at ALL), brand new brake flex lines and brake fluid flush (extensively). The 2 year old Berus (I installed new) seem to be getting the job done (still). Nighttime water sprays show no coronas (other than the cold one that's typically in my hand).

I've asked for a few additional things to be done, such as verifying the cat is flowing properly (I've never removed it and have only IR'd the input and output to make a relative determination, long ago), check the AF ratio, idle, CO and HCs, fuel pressure tests, oil pressure tests at various RPMS, and a coil output waveform analysis for health (the coil has always tested good for primary/secondary resistances but I'm the **** one who would like to see it's "signature"..,....so I have my baseline data...possibly changeout the intake gaskets while she's down.

In closing, I would ask you guys if you would expect that #1 cylinder/valve/piston head to have experienced any "challenges" for having run this plug for a while (vs. changing out the other 5 every 5K miles (I know...). I've often wondered about the spark decrease on aging plugs and the reduced combustion (if that is correct)....wouldn't something give in this case? Carbon excess? other things? Just wondering if that section needs special cleaning precautions? Probably superfluous....thought I'd throw it out there.

I have to say that James has been very informative as to the methodical plan,..to do things right,..and be sensitive to my budget (yes, the paint budget goes away for a while)....I feel really good dealing with him and Serge.....I trust 'em......I think this to be a priceless element.

Off to focus on some New Years' resolutions...'nough ramblings.

See you all tomorrow.

Best,

Ed Hughes

Too much "analysis" to digest.... It sounds like you trust your mechanic, so go with what he offers up. A good little R&R never hurt a 911.

rusnak

I did not know that all of that stuff has been put off (valve adj, thermostat, oil rtn lines, etc). I thought that stuff was already done. The new fuel lines will be a wise investment provided they are all changed. Why are so many parts damaged (thermostat stud, AC mounting plate, spark plug cross-threaded)? You can probably tap the thread for the ac with an SAE tap, and use an English sized bolt.

Since he said that he will be drilling (left hand thread) the plug, I think he might be using an extractor kit that is made for this type of situation. But be prepared for the head to have to come off. It's not a huge deal, just involves about a day more labor and a few more parts. I think that this is probably 50/50, which is why he is starting with the engine out and on the engine stand.

dshepp806

Sorry for the "overage, Ed.

You can imagine...

Doyle