whalebird

I know two guys that maintained seperate collections. It was a cool gig for them but both have moved on. Porsche service is a tuff business, there is not much money in it despite prices people pay for the work. Mercedes was the land of milk and honey(for I have dined on honeydew and drank the milk of paradise...). I was working at a dealership who sold Porsche and Mercedes(as well as Rover and Masaratti) and I was one of only a couple of techs that worked on multiple marques(M-B/Porsche). When I was in Benz training, I told my fellow techs from across the country that I also worked on Porsche and they laughed and said I was an idiot for working on those cars. They just don't pay. Benz on the other hand was very forthcoming with support of their techs. It was interesting however, to compare the different cars and learn about the similar technology they both use, albeit for different objectives. Benz consistently used more sophisticated technology and developed their products a little more. They are also a much larger company with deeper pockets. Porsche easily does the most with the least. The dealer network is a nasty place, at least for me. At the end of the day I didn't care at all about cars. I had lost a lot of my enthusiasm. I found after I left, when I returned to an established indie shop, that I began to dream about cars again and was encouraged to participate in the customers experience with their cars. It was satisfying. I had a great time. I am still very active with the shops (and dealer) that I worked, but as an enthusiast. If I were still in the pit, I would not be posting on Rennlist. I can now further enjoy the cars, industry, and most importantly - the people. It's what I've done all my life. I am 39 and have 23 years experiance as a Porsche/benz tech. Were I'm at feels "right" and I would return as a tech if I had to in order to feed my family, but for now I can love cars beyond a paycheck. I try to offer gentle insight to the community here at Rennlist with the sincerest regards for the car, the owner, and the tech. It's a delicate, yet fruitful, relationship and I dwell on that a bit in these threads. That's why I like this thread - it has all the positive elements of Porsche enthusiasm and I feel strongly about supporting the community as a whole. The many misconceptions and false expectations around Porsche cars can destroy people's enthusiasm and a little insight can mediate that and help people get the most out of Porsche ownership. It's the best people and cars to be around - what a friendly and vast cross-section of people.

dshepp806

Very nice comments (and take), Bird. Points well-made. We appreciate your input, as always.

I, too, have "dined on honeydew and drank the milk of paradise"..............(hehehehe).

Take care.

Doyle

rusnak

Very well said, WB. I appreciate the insight about the Porsche communities. Interesting point about Merc developing their stuff a bit more than Porsche.

dshepp806

Bird,..retired at 39 is a great footnote (BTW)!!!!!!!!!!

I have to ask what business are you in now,...? Since it was categorized as "cool", I couldn't help myself. PLEASE understand that I'm not "prying" and would clearly understand your not answering. It's just that "cool" is COOL!!!!! Maybe I'll pick up an idea or two? Never know.........unless you ask. I feel ok with asking (BTW).

WHOA,..today was really the first day I've looked at the engine bay since the work due to an old friend wanting to see the engine. Not really happy to see (albeit small stuff) my coil cover missing and the retaing clamp for the wires that connect to the oil pressure sender NOT in place. I emailed the P-wrenches to investigate (as these were surely there before delivery). As stated MANY TIMES, I've faith in my guys to remedy whatever comes our way. I understand that they did do a LOT of work,..and, secondly, nothing's perfect.

The fan belt looks to be a little looser than where I'd set it up and will check the shim config (along with the ICV) as soon as weather permits. AC comp belt is nice and tight! SO glad that the retap on the AC comp mounting bracket (bolts) COMPLETELY remedied my driveline shudder. As mentioned long ago (in previous threads), I had noticed that WITH THE AC ON, I would feel terrific amounts of driveline (as I put it) shudder as I approached the higher RPMS. I must say that this was mentioned to shop owner WAY BACK, but I was told that this is probably something OTHER THAN these bolts (at the time, I had one that was stripped),..moreso something possibly to do with flywheel balance or "who knows".......

It's quite clear to me (now) that this WAS my issue all along (just as I presumed),..as I can engage the AC and carry her through the revs with no driveline shudder that I experienced before...cased closed (AFAIC). Also nice to see those 21 year old motor mounts GONE and fresh mounts/hardware installed.

In closing, I would ask (Bird?) about this idle issue (albeit, itself, somewhat mild). I understand (better now) the cam timing relationship (thank you) and its relation (or should I say non-relation?) to idle situations. I'll be sure to double-check my idle switch....question has more to do with noting where the idle RPMs are. Isn't the idle setup by looking at RPMs per spec? I just don't see anything on the RPM gauge that reflects an off idle condition (whatever the reason). Shouldn't it manifest (ultimately) at the RPM gauge? Pardon my ignorance, but I'm just asking for some input on this.

My best,

Doyle

whalebird

It is also the objectives of each car-maker that make a differance. Benzes are heavy/quiet cars intended to isolate the driver from the outside. Porsche tries to include the driver in the car. I think that they (Porsche) has done this less and less but Benz has always done so. Like the stability management that each use. Pretty much the same systems from the same suppliers, but it is programmed differently to allow a Porsche to "drift" a little. A benz shuts down upon traction loss. A weak example, but there were others. Safety systems, fuel managment all were similar, but Porsche used only what they needed. Not a disparagment of any kind, just engineering objectives focused on different things. Working on one kind of auto doesn't give you that perspective. In all honesty; a Porsche is a very reliable car. Of the said technology, Porsche uses it very well and doesen't tamper with non-proven systems. Through the introduction of the Boxter/996 the cars were seldom in the shop(dealer). the same era gave us the M-B ML320 and those things were in the shop constantly - I won't even talk about Rovers. Porsche really puts out a good product and always have.

dshepp806

ALSO,..to others who may be following along.....something I ran across a few years back:

I was looking into why the oil pressure gauge was not really "scaling" right. We changed out the sender right off the batt.............but later I found something that seemed to make a difference (albeit small). As the sender's wiring leaves the sender and transverses the fan housing, there is a wiring retainer clamp for this wiring pair that is mounted to the fan housing. Upon closer inspection, I found where this retainer had "rubbed" through the insulation on the existing wire pairs, exposing bare copper wires. Maybe vibration had cocked this retainer a bit sideways and assisted with continued insulation violation.

Although the fan housing itself would appear to be non-conductive, I spliced in fresh copper pair and connector from the pressure sender UP TO and beyond the retainer clamp point. and properly repositioned this wiring retainer so that it wouldn't "bite" into the wire pair..this seemed to provide a bit better resolution at the gauge...jut an FYI to other Pelicanites out there...

The rest, I feel, lies within the gauge cal itself......plans are to send this out for rework/calibration to NHS very soon.

Anywaze,....just a thought and more info to share to who's interested.

My best,

Doyle

dshepp806

I can speak to MB's a little,..only to say that the Wife enjoys hers.....and let me tell you something,..this thing will COMPLETELY haul some serious ***.......even as heavy as it is...pics attached....the two Germans meet one another.....(I call it)

DAMN!!! MY tires look small in comparison....

rusnak

Would the oil gauge needle go straight off the scale if the wire were grounded? And ambient/ oil temp does funny things to oil viscosity/ pressure. There is an interesting note about this and the breakdown of the oil layer on Elephant Racing's website.

The oil temp gauge on the other hand is calibrated, so you need matching gauge/ sending units.

My parents got a Benz E-something station wagon. That thing is a big heavy beast that gets horrible gas mileage. It's very comfortable, and very quiet, although not as quiet as the E430 sedan, which I feel is the benchmark by which all sedans should be measured. One day when I can pay cash for a $100K car, I'll buy one (I'm oddly debt averse when it comes to personal purchases)......

Oh, and I was reading about all of the traction gizmos that Porsche has out now in one of the recent Excellence articles. I have to think that is not a good thing.

dshepp806

My units match so that's not an issue.

My last test of grounding the sensor wires did yield a full scale result. My question would be if there exists ajustments to ensure calibration at the gauge (within the gauge,..and I do believe this pot exists....but will have to review the schematic for the gauge....).....

I'll have to check out your suggested ER site regarding this,..quite interesting, Rusnak.

In my conversation with my Wrench, he was telling me some of the stuff out nowadays on the Beamers,...detection of yaw, pitch,.etc...some wild stuff.........

Thanks for the reply, Rusnak.

Best,

Doyle

whalebird

Shepp-SWEET Benz. I feel that MB are the best engineered cars in the world. The wifes 2005 C230 Sport is an amazing sport sedan. I really enjoy the Benz offerings. They never fail to produce a hot rod. Benz is famous for putting a powerful motor in everything from the smallest car they make to the S class. Regardless of what the Bimmer guys say, a Benz is a drivers car. A fellow Benz owners-club member asked me what was the coolest thing about working on the new cars. I spent days at a time on the V12 twin turbo SLs and the such. He wanted me to say something about the power and chassis capabilities. I said the coolest thing is the safety systems. The capabilities of the traction and stability control are astounding. My answer may have been lack-luster, but I feel the data calculated with yaw, pitch,steering angle,throttle angle, gear selection and load(among a few) is tremendous. the car can process over 600,000 bits of info every second and respond in a millisecond to a perceived loss of traction. It is so much smarter than a human in responce time and correction. Really cool technology that is saving lives daily. Similar technology is controlling fuel managment and braking. The latest S class has as many as many as 15 pentium processors working in concert. Horsepower is nothing in comparison. Mercedes is, on average, 10 years ahead of domestic and asian carmakers in technology. Furthermore, mercedes invented the airbag, ABS, traction/stability control and never patented the technology. They felt like anyone who wanted to copy the systems would save lives-and they have. Benz is also the only car company that has a team that studies auto crashes. They will go anywhere in the world and gather data on crashes and use it for analysis. Princess Diana's car was sent back to Benz for study. Safest car in the world.
The oil pressure/temp gauge in the 911 is a bit of a debated item. You can get an indexed gauge that has temp increments and have it installed. I believe the sender is the same, but it is nice to have, especially on a track car. Working from memory here, so some research might shed some light on it.

salukijac

Hmmm, maybe that's what's wrong with my oil level gauge? MY gauge is always at full scale. It doesn't bother me as I check my oil often but wouldn't mind having this working again. The sender is good and so is the gauge (my mechanic checked it when I bought the car, so maybe I have short somewhere?

dshepp806

Thanks Bird,...that MB will smoke the living sheeit out of the 911 anyday....handling's not that bad either for a heavy car.....

My gauge check involved the oil pressure gauge......similarly, you can check oil level gauge..

Best,

Doyle

whalebird

I think those gauges are pretty simple affairs really. I like to use an auxillary gauge tapped into the sender's access, see whats going on. Then it seems you could corralate where the gauge is. Set a "control" of sorts. I seem to remember a bit of a debate over this very subject and don't recall the outcome.
I bet that Benzo will haul some serious ***. Mercedes doen not play around. They are the kind of cars that people graduate too. When you get all of the boy-racer stuff out of the way and get serious about covering some ground in comfort and safety - you get a Mercedes. They have seldom offered a stick-shift and many complain about it; they just don't get it.

dshepp806

Exactly: on the gauge. I had mentioned that I had long ago changed out the sender (a rheostat, as I understand) with only minor changes at the gauge. Also found the wire pair thing and repaired. Actually, what I wanted done was to measure the actual pressure per RPM to see if I'm getting the spec (or rough expectations). Remove the gauge (to check rear connections, first). Bring the damned thing back to the rear,..connect via a wire and see what shakes. Otherwise, it would seem a matter of the gauge circuitry. I've still yet to look for the schematic on this but do believe I have it somewhere (I hope). Once I see it, I'll know more about the gauge circuit,..clearly, components within the gauge would then be checked...anyway,..that's the plan.

As to the Benzo, I gotta' tell ya',..once you get the stick or, better yet, the paddles down,..whoa!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll take her out on occasion,..my same P-run routes/twisties,..and drive the sheeit out of it (she's warrantied....) as I would my 911. Moving that kind of weight around is quite different,..not to mention front engine weight management...just totally different (I can lift/......),..one thing's for sure, she'll pull out of those corners like a raped ape,..handling is quite good. Out on the "open road" ,..well,...she'll get "up there,...really quick,...and you don't even know it happened (say crossing 100-120MPH). I make sure the carbon gets blown out, as the Wife doesn't get on her hard, at all (unless sombody pisses her off....).

THEN, get into the Carrera and feel everything at +100 MPH,...very quick,..light,..darty,..........louder,......well,..you know the "visceral drill".........

Sorry to get off topic guys,.......uh,..sure am glad #1 came out OK!!

Best,

Doyle

whalebird

I think the wire diagram will tell you whats up. I think the circuit shares data, or at least a ground, with the idiot light in the same cluster.
The trans in the benz is pretty smart. I've done the paddle shifts and stick stuff, but it will shift about as good as I can. It adapts pretty well and uses the power in the motor where it needs it most. It's pretty cool how it knows to hold a gear on decellaration, high speed curves etc. It's a fun car to drive spirited and that V8 will lunge forward when asked too. A Benz will give you what your want. That SL is considered one of the best(if not THE) GT cars made. A 928 comes close, the front-engine Ferraris...well(Red Barchetta). An SL is a serious car with a beautifully crafted multi-link chassis, powerful engine, and flexible transmission. A GT(gran tourer) is intended to get an individual out of town and back quickly and in luxery. Remember the mid seventies Monte Carlo/Gran Torino - a personal luxery car. The 928s engineering objective was to serve the same purpose as a personal aircraft for businessmen - get to and from remote meetings at a high clip on the Autobahn. You can take care of business and be back to "drink with my(your) uncle by the fireside.."SL is the same thing. You may already know this.
Anyway...I'm glad #1 came out ok.