Taffy66

I have to agree with you to a certain extent. The 992GT3 Touring ideally should have had softer springs compared to the winged car for touring. I spoke at length with Pete at Centre Gravity and he said that the awful tramlining on the 992GT3 on rougher roads was a direct result of the double wishbones. Apparately Porsche got it wrong as a first attempt and needs to have both the toe and front camber eased off to compensate for the hyper steering and DWs.

Manifold

Sure, but cars like 4RS, 992 GT3, 991.2 3RS, and 992 Turbo S are different enough in personality, strengths and weaknesses, that I think they shouldn't really be compared. Interestingly, they all sit in a similar price range (at currently market price), and they all have a similar lap time on track (with equal tires and setup). So the choice between them isn't really about objective performance.

Manifold

992 GT3 winged and touring have the same suspension. I agree that the car bounces and tramlines too much on the road, and the suspension should have been more road-friendly for the touring version. They apparently fixed the problem with S/T, and maybe it will be fixed on the 992.2 also.

Dizzy1127

Drove my GT4RS 10 min through local roads to the PPF shop, never went higher than maybe 3-4k. The induction noise is not done any justice on youtube videos, and i maybe gently squeezed the throttle. Very excited for the post break in period. End of my 1.1 mile driving impression.

alcc

LOL. That's the difference between a hedonist and a connoisseur. The former indulges in the pleasure, and that is enough, whereas the latter needs to understand the constituents of that pleasure. To some, the attendant comparisons and critical analysis reduce and interfere with the pleasure. To others, they enhance the pleasure. Hence there's literature and comparative literature.

Imo unreflective hedonism and obsessive analysis are both detrimental to the experience. But then, suspect we are each born leaning one way or the other.

Manifold

I think it's a spectrum, and a particular person need not lean strongly one way or the other. One can also switch modes, sometimes leaning one way, sometimes the other, so one can be both. My day job is relatively analytical. For things I do for pleasure (music, food, cars, sex, etc.), I try not to be too analytical.

Whoopsy

Basically going from A to B, but taking different routes depending on one's preference. There isn't a bad route.

I take route 1, doesn't automatically means route 2 and 3 and 4 are bad. Some people just need to be less sensitive to non-positive comments that's also non-negative to their preference.

Whoopsy

How is that bad mouthing? He never said GT3 is bad in any way shape or form. He said more fun in the GT4RS, that doesn't automatically means no fun in the GT3.

I think GT3 is fat, big, unwieldy to drive. There, that's bad mouthing as a comparison.

I had a 992 GT3, one of the early ones even. That's my very first impression driving it out of the delivery bay, actually in alcc's home dealership. It doesn't drive bad, in fact it drives very nice. The engine note is mega and the new 992 interior is lovely. All the adjectives I used aren't mutually exclusive and the car has all of those.

Manifold

I'm going to take all four routes, for variety. Not sure if that makes me a hedonist or connoisseur.

alcc

Don't know if you have other "enthusiasms." Consider audiophiles (mea culpa) or oenophiles.

Audiophiles obsess over "air", "bloom", macro v. microdynamics (torque curve?), tube v. solid state (air v. water?), vinyl v. digital (NA v. turbo?)...

Too bad there are no equals to the "golden ears" and prose of Harry Pearson among the crude car "reviewers." Otoh, thank god there are also no equivalents to snake oil stuff like $30,000 cables.

Guess car nerd are more rational than audio nerds.

Manifold

Good discussion.

I've sort of done the audiophile thing for about 45 years. After trying a lot of gear and doing some blind testing, I concluded that a lot of things which appear to matter don't actually matter, but there's definitely better and worse sound quality and fidelity (mostly related to speakers and acoustics, less so for amps, DACs, cables, etc.).

I used to like wine, but have developed a sensitive tummy, so no more alcohol for me. I'm sure you've read about wine blind testing? The exact same wine tends to be perceived to taste better if it has a higher price tag or a more appealing color. Maybe a 4RS in a vomit color would be perceived to sound worse or be slower?

The relevance of all this for cars is that our perceptions don't always match reality (can result in perceiving things that aren't there, and not perceiving things that are there), and the things we say to each other here on RL can influence our perceptions. That's why people don't want to hear (the claim) that the 4RS lacks mid-range punch.

alcc

Funny: I enjoy music a lot more on my modest family room system than on the high-end system in my dedicated listening room -- because I listen to the music instead of to the (imperfections) in the gear. Ditto, I enjoy driving a scenic back road in my 25 yo. E36 M3 more than in my F-cars or 4RS -- because I enjoy the road and the scenery instead of fussing over the (imperfect) damping, the understeer...

The more we expect from the gear, the less we enjoy the experience. A tough thing to overcome.

Manifold

Yes, that's why I say I'm only 'sort of' an audiophile. I care about sound quality and can notice differences pretty well, but I care about music more than sound quality. Many self-described audiophiles would rather listen to mediocre music on a great sound system, than great music on a mediocre sound system. Not me.

I was thinking about selling my manual 997 to make space in the garage, but your comment about your E36 has me reconsidering. TBH, if I wasn't doing the track thing, I'm not sure that I'd own any Porsche GT cars; they can be enjoyed on the road, but I feel like their true home is the track.

Whoopsy

That's just about sums it up perfectly. Enjoy the car, enjoy the roads being driven on.

TOporschefan

I own a 4RS nothing to deal I also respect the incredible capability of the 992 GT3. Watch a review by a journalist they talk about the merits about the car being tested not how another car is worse. Just seems to be the trend lately.