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imo, I think Porsche will lose buyers to the C8. Its too good of a value and I hope for us loyalists, the outcome is Porsche pricing gets reigned in from its current out of control state. $85k optioned out GTS 4.0s vs $85k poverty z06 seems like a nice choice for the consumer if you ask me!
Correct, I personally decided to back out of my 718 GT4 spot after seeing the specs and compared to my gen 1 car and went c8. Now waiting for the gt4rs.
Sort of true... they don't exactly move from their prescribed and predictable model line-up no matter what is thrown at them. Then again, if they weren't so determined they would stop building NA GT3 engines in this regulatory/emissions environment so... cuts both ways.
anyone noticed this new wheel design?.. ME LIKEY!!!!! these are from street driving in stuttgart... these could be the basic wheel design non-weissach wheel these look like magnesium.. maybe a weissach package wheel??
I hope they offer a the Weissach Package for the GT4RS and the mag wheels are available.
I hope they offer a the Weissach Package for the GT4RS and the mag wheels are available.
Let's assume this car is $120k.. 20% premium over GT4... would you pay $18k for Weissach (similar price to what WP costs on GT3RS?). I don't see the value..
this car should be ordered with very few upgrades as we'll be making all sorts of little aftermarket mods to make it fully track worthy anyway ... workhorse items not C&C items, and hyper-expensive magnesium wheels aren't going to be used on track. Same goes for leather interior, upgraded stereo, and any other kind of frilly addenda. Even pccb are a no-go as refurbishable ST rotors or even the stock brakes are more track-friendly. This car should be ordered stock, no options..just an out of the box track machine ready to be beaten within an inch of its life... just like a GT4CS.. except you can stick a license plate on it and drive it home.
just an out of the box track machine ready to be beaten within an inch of its life... just like a GT4CS.. except you can stick a license plate on it and drive it home.
You can do that with any Porsche with no or minimal mods. I did it with my first 987.1 Boxster S, bought new in 06. 70+ track days, 40k backroad miles over 6yrs, bone stock except pagid pads and Nitto’s on track wheels. Just change fluids, pads, and tires. Kept me safely in the upper 1/4 of the field in fast Black run groups full of race cars and gt3/rs. Sometimes we overthink things.
I hope they offer a the Weissach Package for the GT4RS and the mag wheels are available.
And then it will cost more than a GT3.......IMHO If this thing really gets the green light for production I think a lot of people are not going to be happy (worst than the upgrades from 981 to 718 GT4) as it will have minimal upgrades over a GT4 PDK...same engine with a bit more power, same suspension with a bit of more aggressive tuning, same brakes. Center Lock wheels? You can keep them, no good for the track at this level. You will get a few carbon bits , aero and maybe some special plaque or stitching. There's not a whole lot of room for Porsche to go crazy with upgrades over the GT3 as this car is sandwiched between GT4 and a GT3...not like the GT3 RS. Some will say that they will be more than happy to buy a GT4 RS at or above GT3 prices but lets be real...that's just the RL bubble and we are talking worldwide sales. Again...this is just my opinion looking at it from the marketing/sales side.
And then it will cost more than a GT3.......IMHO If this thing really gets the green light for production I think a lot of people are not going to be happy (worst than the upgrades from 981 to 718 GT4) as it will have minimal upgrades over a GT4 PDK...same engine with a bit more power, same suspension with a bit of more aggressive tuning, same brakes. Center Lock wheels? You can keep them, no good for the track at this level. You will get a few carbon bits , aero and maybe some special plaque or stitching. There's not a whole lot of room for Porsche to go crazy with upgrades over the GT3 as this car is sandwiched between GT4 and a GT3...not like the GT3 RS. Some will say that they will be more than happy to buy a GT4 RS at or above GT3 prices but lets be real...that's just the RL bubble and we are talking worldwide sales. Again...this is just my opinion looking at it from the marketing/sales side.
And then it will cost more than a GT3.......IMHO If this thing really gets the green light for production I think a lot of people are not going to be happy (worst than the upgrades from 981 to 718 GT4) as it will have minimal upgrades over a GT4 PDK...same engine with a bit more power, same suspension with a bit of more aggressive tuning, same brakes. Center Lock wheels? You can keep them, no good for the track at this level. You will get a few carbon bits , aero and maybe some special plaque or stitching. There's not a whole lot of room for Porsche to go crazy with upgrades over the GT3 as this car is sandwiched between GT4 and a GT3...not like the GT3 RS. Some will say that they will be more than happy to buy a GT4 RS at or above GT3 prices but lets be real...that's just the RL bubble and we are talking worldwide sales. Again...this is just my opinion looking at it from the marketing/sales side.
With the projected ADM’s it will cost more than RS which are dime a dozen on the used car market today. Makes no sense.
My business experience suggests that you underestimate German arrogance.
I'd rather be wrong here, but my experience matters to me.
I worked as a M&A advisor to tier 1, tier 2, aftermarket and auto service industries but I am in agreement that I am currently underestimating German arrogance.
I'm trying to be hopeful for the consumer....and hoping the market forces the Germans to be a bit more humble in pricing in what I think will be further lost market share in the economic recovery period following the COVID recession.
I do think it is different this time...looking at Q2/Q3 sales for Porsche they were by far the worst in the last decade and this is before you have a fast ramp / surging demand for electric vehicles and c8s.
Originally Posted by sin911
No one can deny that Corvette offers some serious numbers and if the engine is reliable on the new model it will be a great competitor and probably be even will be faster than a GT4 RS. That does not mean that Porsche doesn't have their followers that will happily buy it for what it is. The GT4 and Spyder are selling really well, so did the GT3 and so will the newer models. I prefer the fit and finish of Porsche over Chevrolet, both interior and exterior looks and feels higher quality. It is as simple as that, looks more elegant.
Every one have different choices and preferences, nothing wrong with that That is why there are many manufacturers offering different cars for people with different tastes.
Those wheels in the first link are the 991 Speedster concept wheels. I really doubt they will release the car with those wheels. They were not even optional on the 991 Speedster it was supposed to go on. They do look awesome!
Given this information, GT4 RS most likely will sport a 305 tire at least.
I love Porsches and would still take the GT4 today over a C8 and think years of motorsport DNA, german engineering and quality are worth the price premium. More generally though, I am just excited to see fierce competition in the sports car market, more options and better value for us buyers!
Originally Posted by TRZ06
I think so too, but it will be a few years before it happens. The Z06 is probably about 1 year out from being available for sale. For the 1st year to 2 years there will be mark-ups and no discounted pricing. 2024 will probably be a great time to get into the new Z06. The hype will have died down, the volume dealers will start discounting them and by them the ZR1 and more info on the Zora will be out.
Timing wise for me, it works out perfect. I will replace the SS 1LE with the PDK GT4, enjoy/keep it for 1.5 to 2 years and maybe move up to the C8 Z06 at that time. Although, if I love the GT4 as much as the reviewers/youtubers do, I might end up just keeping it, but it is nice to know that the C8 Z06 will be lurking out there as a alternative.
Glad to see enthusiasts aren't myopic and excited for other cars. Agree that the Z06 is probably a ways off given mfg interruptions, I believe chevy pushed out their release plans by 1 year vs original.
Originally Posted by gtr
Correct, I personally decided to back out of my 718 GT4 spot after seeing the specs and compared to my gen 1 car and went c8. Now waiting for the gt4rs.
This is why I hope they really don't hold the GT4RS back and to my original point, I don't think the biggest market issue is cannibalization of the 911 within their existing product line, but if Porsche wants to take market share in this current environment, more value for the consumer compared to your competition has historically been the only way in a free market society to outsell other alternatives.
At the end of the day, I still think Porsche is the highest quality mfg and worth every dollar and without a doubt a GT4(RS) will retain its value better than a C8, but i'm not sure the same can be said for older Porsche models if a new C8 starts at $60k and when supply catches up to demand.
I just don't know if the $130k GT4RS will sell well vs a $130k twin-turbo ZR1 with 700+ horsepower and 850 ft/lbs of torque....
I am a Porsche loyalist but Chevy has changed the valued proposition for the consumer. I am hoping/think its likely that the GT4 RS is sub 7:00s on the Nring, the better track car and the whole Porsche lineup innovates and improves from here.
I worked as a M&A advisor to tier 1, tier 2, aftermarket and auto service industries but I am in agreement that I am currently underestimating German arrogance.
I'm trying to be hopeful for the consumer....and hoping the market forces the Germans to be a bit more humble in pricing in what I think will be further lost market share in the economic recovery period following the COVID recession.
I do think it is different this time...looking at Q2/Q3 sales for Porsche they were by far the worst in the last decade and this is before you have a fast ramp / surging demand for electric vehicles and c8s.
I love Porsches and would still take the GT4 today over a C8 and think years of motorsport DNA, german engineering and quality are worth the price premium. More generally though, I am just excited to see fierce competition in the sports car market, more options and better value for us buyers!
Glad to see enthusiasts aren't myopic and excited for other cars. Agree that the Z06 is probably a ways off given mfg interruptions, I believe chevy pushed out their release plans by 1 year vs original.
This is why I hope they really don't hold the GT4RS back and to my original point, I don't think the biggest market issue is cannibalization of the 911 within their existing product line, but if Porsche wants to take market share in this current environment, more value for the consumer compared to your competition has historically been the only way in a free market society to outsell other alternatives.
At the end of the day, I still think Porsche is the highest quality mfg and worth every dollar and without a doubt a GT4(RS) will retain its value better than a C8, but i'm not sure the same can be said for older Porsche models if a new C8 starts at $60k and when supply catches up to demand.
I just don't know if the $130k GT4RS will sell well vs a $130k twin-turbo ZR1 with 700+ horsepower and 850 ft/lbs of torque....
I am a Porsche loyalist but Chevy has changed the valued proposition for the consumer. I am hoping/think its likely that the GT4 RS is sub 7:00s on the Nring, the better track car and the whole Porsche lineup innovates and improves from here.
I do not think that a 700 hp ZR1 does enough to change the minds of someone who is out to buy a GT4RS. As it currently stands, the new C8, even at 85K decently options, Porsche is selling the 992S/4S for nearly 2X on average and no one bats an eye - in fact I doubt most buying a 992 would even consider a C8. While the C8 may look decent, I think it will show its age and quality after a couple years. They simply are not at the level of quality of Porsche.
On top of that, the C8 is a big, heavy car at 36xx lbs. That is nearly 500 lbs more than a GT4 and I doubt the Z06 or the ZR1 will be lighter than the C8. I am certainly interested to see what the Z06 offers if it has engine they are saying, but for me, numbers don't every tell the entire story or tell you if a car is special or not. Same reason why the f8x M3/4 sound great on paper but beyond being objectively fast (almost any performance car can claim this) but doesn't deliver anything special or subjectively great.
I am a Porsche loyalist but Chevy has changed the valued proposition for the consumer. I am hoping/think its likely that the GT4 RS is sub 7:00s on the Nring, the better track car and the whole Porsche lineup innovates and improves from here.
Huh? A sub 7:00 for a GT4RS? A 991.2GT3 did a 7:12, highly unlikely for a 718 GT4RS to go under 7:00 at the ring.
I worked as a M&A advisor to tier 1, tier 2, aftermarket and auto service industries but I am in agreement that I am currently underestimating German arrogance. ....
Okay, you got me there. My experience is pharma and medical, so yours is certainly more germane.
11-05-2020, 07:37 PM
That is why there are many manufacturers offering different cars for people with different tastes.
