Originally Posted by Whoopsy

The 924 is so much more of a looker than the 914 dude. Shape of the 914 is just plain ugly. Some 40 years now, the 924's proportion still looks perfect. It spawns the 944 and 968 after all. The 914 on the other hand, looks like a small tissue box sitting on top of a big tissue box.



You looking at things too superficially. It's not just about geometry. Weight distribution plays a big role. 911 had always been handicapped by the rear engine, and turn in suffers. It's not until the 992 GT3 that Porsche really tamed the light front end turn in problem. In order to drive a 911 fast, one has to trail brake deep, very deep, in order to keep the weight in the front to help it get more bite to turn, and if one gets that wrong, the rear will swing around. Suspension geometry can only help so much until physics takes over.

The mid engine Porsches doesn't have such a problem. They are naturally nimble and willing to turn. Lack of power and poor gearing is what holding the Cayman/Boxster back. The GT4RS solved both problems. Could more expensive and better geometry components helped the GT4RS, of course, but it will also means more dollars. But the gain will not be as big as on a 911. Diminishing return so to speak.

Originally Posted by Whoopsy

Perhaps 4L with 520-530ps. Or not even that. The big jump from GT4 to GT4RS isn't a guide to where the GT3RS stands. The GT4RS is an outlier, a unicorn.

GT3RS was never about big hp gain over the GT3, it had always been about better handling and aero. Closer to the race car side of things than street car.

The much bigger wing and wider tires will naturally separate it from it's little brother the GT4RS.

Originally Posted by thuggo

I disagree look at the retarded prices people are paying for markups on the GT3......People will pay for the exotic materials. Especially if this is likely to be the one of the last generations of NA RS.

Originally Posted by Whoopsy

People are paying the markup for the privilege to have the latest and greatest 'in' car. They aren't paying for materials used or engineering involved. Big difference.

It's a transient crowd, they pay extra to buy the 'in' car just because they know they will not lose money if not making money on the purchase.

If Porsche do indeed use exotic materials and processes to make such a car, it will likely be above 300k MSRP. Who would pay that with mark up on top? They might as well buy a Ferrari.

Porsche do tried to keep their MSRP reasonable, they are making enough profit on them already, no need to jack it up even more. The problem doesn't lie with Porsche, the problems lies with their dealers which they have no direct control over thanks to your dysfunctional law makers.

Originally Posted by thuggo

LOL you can only place so much blame on the lawmakers on this one. Porsche could always step up and revoke the franchises if they really cared.

Originally Posted by groundhog

On what legal basis? How many people pay ADM?

I never have and never would, plus, I have never missed out on the car that I wanted.

Virtually everyone I know that purchases the higher end cars have put down a deposit/ signed a "subject to" contract (several years before a model has been released or even hinted at) and paid MSRP.

Originally Posted by thuggo

1.) I'm sure deep within the contracts etc, says "if you **** up the Porsche name we can revoke the dealership", which basically means anything.

2.) "Virtually".

Originally Posted by thuggo

LOL you can only place so much blame on the lawmakers on this one. Porsche could always step up and revoke the franchises if they really cared.

Originally Posted by Whoopsy

You me, Joe down the road aren't Porsche's customers, the dealerships are.

We are just customers of the dealerships.

To be exact, Porsche AG sells cars to PCNA, PCNA in turn sells them to the dealerships and then we buy it off the dealerships. Even our custom ordered cars still go through this chain. Porsche AG had been paid already for every car you see in a dealership lot. We aren't paying Porsche directly, we are only paying the dealerships who are last in line to get paid.

There isn't a whole lot of direct control Porsche can exercise over how the dealerships set the prices. Because of how US laws are written, the dealerships have the right to set their own prices, ignoring the suggested MSRP by Porsche. If received enough complaints, only thing PCNA can do is take away allocations for cars, which in turn will drive up that dealership's mark up more in order to make up the profit lost.

On the other hand, if there is a law stating dealerships have to sell cars at what the manufacturer suggested, then there will not be mark ups, but there on't be discounts either.

You can only blame Porsche so much in this issue.

Originally Posted by thuggo

The allocation could fix the offending dealers pretty easily. When they have nothing new to sell, and the dealers across the street etc do.

But regardless....virtually nothing good ever comes from Gov Regulation in the US...they continually **** it all up.

Originally Posted by ExMB

Looks like an adjustable toelink will be required just like it was on the GT4 when one dials in enough camber in the back.

Pic was taken from a test car at Hockenheim PEC.

Originally Posted by ExMB

Looks like an adjustable toelink will be required just like it was on the GT4 when one dials in enough camber in the back.

Originally Posted by ExMB

Looks like an adjustable toelink will be required just like it was on the GT4 when one dials in enough camber in the back.

Pic was taken from a test car at Hockenheim PEC.

Originally Posted by Adrift

Are we saying they pulled off that epic ring time without enough camber in the back? Could it be the bumpsteer issue is oversold? Could they have achieved that time with a known nasty failing?