Dealer Allocation Tracker
06-18-2022, 07:02 PM
#4411
Three Wheelin'
Congrats on landing the allocation! Seems like everything worked out for you in the end.
Maybe just my personal opinion (and possibly the opinion of others surfing the 718 GT4/Spyder/GTS 4.0 forums), but I don't think the 992 is a more desirable car by any means. The mid engine, NA 4.0 platform is truly amazing and is by no means a "step down" from a 992 in my eyes.
Again, congrats on the allocation and enjoy the car when it arrives!
Maybe just my personal opinion (and possibly the opinion of others surfing the 718 GT4/Spyder/GTS 4.0 forums), but I don't think the 992 is a more desirable car by any means. The mid engine, NA 4.0 platform is truly amazing and is by no means a "step down" from a 992 in my eyes.
Again, congrats on the allocation and enjoy the car when it arrives!
But my point was not that the 718 is a consolation prize, or a step down. It's a BETTER sports car, no doubt about it. And a far better fit for me at this stage in my life. At some point I very well could see myself getting back on the list for a 911. Just not right now... and I'm TOTALLY fine with that with the 4.0 available in the 718 platform!
The following users liked this post:
rusmani (06-18-2022)
06-18-2022, 07:44 PM
#4412
Racer
IMHO, it's not worth the stress factor if you have to stretch to cover the costs of a car. The experience will always be compromised. In my case I am far better off choosing a car well within my comfort level...I never felt this way with the 992; in fact I felt relief when I gave up the allocation.
06-19-2022, 01:08 AM
#4413
Drifting
I came here because I'm excited that an allocation fell into my lap yesterday for an August delivery... Interesting how the thread has sort of devolved to value/risk discussions, but it's a good conversation nonetheless, and I feel that I have another interesting perspective to contribute.
I was in a similar situation with a 992 GTS. Things were going great in November when I placed a deposit... but a few months later and the looming threat of a $160k expense in a volatile market scenario plus some personal issues like two teenage new drivers + college expenses had me spooked. I considered just taking delivery anyway knowing that the market was hot enough I could probably MAKE money off a 992 GTS I would have gotten at MSRP... but I decided instead to just channel my energy into hitting the reset button and waiting for the car that was the much better fit- a 718 BGTS 4.0. Rather than play the speculation game and try to take delivery and drive a 992 for a few months just to jump through hoops in an attempt to flip it, I let go of my V200 allocation for the 992 with a few weeks left before it locked (and even got my deposit back because my dealer is GREAT to local market customers), but stayed in line for the 718. Estimated wait for delivery was 15-18 months. I wasn't thrilled with that wait but was prepared to deal with it. I was even a bit concerned that I might not actually get a car and started scouring used cars, which are still fetching way higher than MSRP prices.
As it turns out, a few weeks after handing over my 992 allocation, I received a text from my SA yesterday that a 718 allocation was available and locks in less than 3 weeks. The delivery is in August; around the same time I would have gotten the 992. I can easily afford the 718; a 992 would have been a stretch. The 992 unequivocally is a more desirable car- but I guarantee I will enjoy this 718 more because I can easily afford it.
IMHO, it's not worth the stress factor if you have to stretch to cover the costs of a car. The experience will always be compromised. In my case I am far better off choosing a car well within my comfort level, and I have been on cloud nine since yesterday. I never felt this way with the 992; in fact I felt relief when I gave up the allocation.
So carrying through to this scenario of potentially keeping an existing GTS 4.0 allocation, maybe that energy is better spent on a Supra, new Z, or M2 Competition, to name a few examples of awesome cars in a lower price bracket that may lead to a better enjoyment vs. stress ratio. My .02, take it or leave it.
I was in a similar situation with a 992 GTS. Things were going great in November when I placed a deposit... but a few months later and the looming threat of a $160k expense in a volatile market scenario plus some personal issues like two teenage new drivers + college expenses had me spooked. I considered just taking delivery anyway knowing that the market was hot enough I could probably MAKE money off a 992 GTS I would have gotten at MSRP... but I decided instead to just channel my energy into hitting the reset button and waiting for the car that was the much better fit- a 718 BGTS 4.0. Rather than play the speculation game and try to take delivery and drive a 992 for a few months just to jump through hoops in an attempt to flip it, I let go of my V200 allocation for the 992 with a few weeks left before it locked (and even got my deposit back because my dealer is GREAT to local market customers), but stayed in line for the 718. Estimated wait for delivery was 15-18 months. I wasn't thrilled with that wait but was prepared to deal with it. I was even a bit concerned that I might not actually get a car and started scouring used cars, which are still fetching way higher than MSRP prices.
As it turns out, a few weeks after handing over my 992 allocation, I received a text from my SA yesterday that a 718 allocation was available and locks in less than 3 weeks. The delivery is in August; around the same time I would have gotten the 992. I can easily afford the 718; a 992 would have been a stretch. The 992 unequivocally is a more desirable car- but I guarantee I will enjoy this 718 more because I can easily afford it.
IMHO, it's not worth the stress factor if you have to stretch to cover the costs of a car. The experience will always be compromised. In my case I am far better off choosing a car well within my comfort level, and I have been on cloud nine since yesterday. I never felt this way with the 992; in fact I felt relief when I gave up the allocation.
So carrying through to this scenario of potentially keeping an existing GTS 4.0 allocation, maybe that energy is better spent on a Supra, new Z, or M2 Competition, to name a few examples of awesome cars in a lower price bracket that may lead to a better enjoyment vs. stress ratio. My .02, take it or leave it.
That being said i do also want to caution immediately jumping to the "cheaper option". Ive been wanting a GT4 for a long time now but never really felt likt it was smart to spend 120k+ on a car. So i ended up buying an M2 Competition, which i then traded for a Supra. At the end of the day, seeing how the car is nearing end of production and it being my dream car, i decided to just stop playing around with cars that, while were really good and amazing, just werent what i wanted. The 160k cost that i will be paying for my GT4(after tax and ADM) is a super hard pill to swallow, but its my dream car. And i know i'm going to enjoy it for a very long time.
The following users liked this post:
Chonson (06-19-2022)
The following users liked this post:
BillBoss (06-20-2022)
06-19-2022, 01:55 AM
#4415
Drifting
Surprisingly enough it was mostly the Manual Transmission. I dont know what it is about BMW, but their MT is a far cry from the other cars i was used to. The car has a ton of power at basically all RPMS. Because of that it made feathering the clutch actually quite a task. And then add in the fact that shifting from 1-2 was NEVER smooth. There was always this weird jerkiness and i'm very much someone who enjoys a smooth driving experience (my S2000 was my current standard).
That being said it was a great car. Fast, loud, very practical for what it was, but i never wanted to drive it because the MT experience was SO BAD. Also the seats were trash. Lots of lower back pain no matter how short of a drive it was. ANd i'm still a relatively young man at 37 years of age.
The Supra on the other hand was more what i expected from BMW (lol). Smooth power delivery but strong all the way through. The ZF auto was actually fantastic and really gave me new appreciation for torque converter automatics. The seats were insanely comfortable and i did multiple trips down the coast in that car as well as a few track days. Visibility sucked but it didnt matter too much. The Supra was actually quicker than the M2C. its a lighter car and it just put down the power better. Also Toyota severely underreported the power in that car. Put it on the dyno and it made 410whp (this was the 2021 A91 version). I sold the Supra a year later in prep for my incoming GT4.
If i had to do it all again, i'd probably make the same choice however if i had gotten the M2C with the DCT, its possible i never sell it for the Supra. At the same time i LOVE the Supra looks. So who knows.
That being said it was a great car. Fast, loud, very practical for what it was, but i never wanted to drive it because the MT experience was SO BAD. Also the seats were trash. Lots of lower back pain no matter how short of a drive it was. ANd i'm still a relatively young man at 37 years of age.
The Supra on the other hand was more what i expected from BMW (lol). Smooth power delivery but strong all the way through. The ZF auto was actually fantastic and really gave me new appreciation for torque converter automatics. The seats were insanely comfortable and i did multiple trips down the coast in that car as well as a few track days. Visibility sucked but it didnt matter too much. The Supra was actually quicker than the M2C. its a lighter car and it just put down the power better. Also Toyota severely underreported the power in that car. Put it on the dyno and it made 410whp (this was the 2021 A91 version). I sold the Supra a year later in prep for my incoming GT4.
If i had to do it all again, i'd probably make the same choice however if i had gotten the M2C with the DCT, its possible i never sell it for the Supra. At the same time i LOVE the Supra looks. So who knows.
The following users liked this post:
manifold danger (06-19-2022)
06-19-2022, 03:09 AM
#4416
Originally Posted by Xxyion
Surprisingly enough it was mostly the Manual Transmission. I dont know what it is about BMW, but their MT is a far cry from the other cars i was used to. The car has a ton of power at basically all RPMS. Because of that it made feathering the clutch actually quite a task. And then add in the fact that shifting from 1-2 was NEVER smooth. There was always this weird jerkiness and i'm very much someone who enjoys a smooth driving experience (my S2000 was my current standard).
That being said it was a great car. Fast, loud, very practical for what it was, but i never wanted to drive it because the MT experience was SO BAD. Also the seats were trash. Lots of lower back pain no matter how short of a drive it was. ANd i'm still a relatively young man at 37 years of age.
The Supra on the other hand was more what i expected from BMW (lol). Smooth power delivery but strong all the way through. The ZF auto was actually fantastic and really gave me new appreciation for torque converter automatics. The seats were insanely comfortable and i did multiple trips down the coast in that car as well as a few track days. Visibility sucked but it didnt matter too much. The Supra was actually quicker than the M2C. its a lighter car and it just put down the power better. Also Toyota severely underreported the power in that car. Put it on the dyno and it made 410whp (this was the 2021 A91 version). I sold the Supra a year later in prep for my incoming GT4.
If i had to do it all again, i'd probably make the same choice however if i had gotten the M2C with the DCT, its possible i never sell it for the Supra. At the same time i LOVE the Supra looks. So who knows.
That being said it was a great car. Fast, loud, very practical for what it was, but i never wanted to drive it because the MT experience was SO BAD. Also the seats were trash. Lots of lower back pain no matter how short of a drive it was. ANd i'm still a relatively young man at 37 years of age.
The Supra on the other hand was more what i expected from BMW (lol). Smooth power delivery but strong all the way through. The ZF auto was actually fantastic and really gave me new appreciation for torque converter automatics. The seats were insanely comfortable and i did multiple trips down the coast in that car as well as a few track days. Visibility sucked but it didnt matter too much. The Supra was actually quicker than the M2C. its a lighter car and it just put down the power better. Also Toyota severely underreported the power in that car. Put it on the dyno and it made 410whp (this was the 2021 A91 version). I sold the Supra a year later in prep for my incoming GT4.
If i had to do it all again, i'd probably make the same choice however if i had gotten the M2C with the DCT, its possible i never sell it for the Supra. At the same time i LOVE the Supra looks. So who knows.
BTW, there's a guy on Bimmerpost who also owns a 718 GTS 4.0 and he commented that his M2C was more fun in the twisties than his 4.0GTS (which, BTW, is a car I'd love to build and own).
Life is good.
06-19-2022, 06:52 AM
#4417
Three Wheelin'
This is actually a great point. I definitely agree that if you are struggling to pay for a car and the stress of trying to keep it can definitely sour the overall ownership experience.
That being said i do also want to caution immediately jumping to the "cheaper option". Ive been wanting a GT4 for a long time now but never really felt likt it was smart to spend 120k+ on a car. So i ended up buying an M2 Competition, which i then traded for a Supra. At the end of the day, seeing how the car is nearing end of production and it being my dream car, i decided to just stop playing around with cars that, while were really good and amazing, just werent what i wanted. The 160k cost that i will be paying for my GT4(after tax and ADM) is a super hard pill to swallow, but its my dream car. And i know i'm going to enjoy it for a very long time.
That being said i do also want to caution immediately jumping to the "cheaper option". Ive been wanting a GT4 for a long time now but never really felt likt it was smart to spend 120k+ on a car. So i ended up buying an M2 Competition, which i then traded for a Supra. At the end of the day, seeing how the car is nearing end of production and it being my dream car, i decided to just stop playing around with cars that, while were really good and amazing, just werent what i wanted. The 160k cost that i will be paying for my GT4(after tax and ADM) is a super hard pill to swallow, but its my dream car. And i know i'm going to enjoy it for a very long time.
What I didn't mention is that I also owned a 7MT 991.2 for a year, which for me was the dream car. It was Carmine Red, perfect spec for an S; in fact the ONLY option I didn't have that I would have wanted was that it wasn't a GTS! It was an EPIC car, and a true fulfillment of a lifelong aspiration to own a 911. If only it could have stopped there lol... most people when they get their dream car they're completely satisfied.
But ultimately for me it was just an itch that I needed to scratch. In hindsight, I realized that I "fussed" over that car, and didn't enjoy it the way I should have (and for a couple months actually thought I'd solve that by buying a more expensive one...). And it wasn't necessarily about the cost- I got that car in 2020 used for less than I'll be paying for this 718- it was just a mindset. Overall I really enjoyed owning and driving that car- but I also realized that I just had more fun in the 981 Boxster GTS I traded in for it. For whatever that's worth... it just seems, to me, that the 911 is just a different type of experience, a more serious type of car. Just didn't vibe with me the way Boxsters do... not even my current 718 GTS 2.5. I LOVE this car, and can honestly say am enjoying it more than the 991.2...
That's not a slight on the 911. It's just where my head is at, at least right now. Part of being an enthusiast, and there are many different types, backgrounds, and circumstances that feed our wants and needs...
FWIW, I have owned a GT4 for six years (and still love it) and last summer I sold a 981CS and bought a new M2C in MT. I love it! I couldn't imagine another car I'd rather drive on a daily or semi-daily basis--at any price--than that M2C. It's incredibly sporty. It's well fast enough for me. It's comfortable (for me, not withstanding your comments about the seats--and I'm nearly old enough to be your dad). It's practical. And it looks amazing. And it was less than 65 grand.
BTW, there's a guy on Bimmerpost who also owns a 718 GTS 4.0 and he commented that his M2C was more fun in the twisties than his 4.0GTS (which, BTW, is a car I'd love to build and own).
Life is good.
BTW, there's a guy on Bimmerpost who also owns a 718 GTS 4.0 and he commented that his M2C was more fun in the twisties than his 4.0GTS (which, BTW, is a car I'd love to build and own).
Life is good.
Last edited by manifold danger; 06-19-2022 at 06:55 AM.
The following users liked this post:
bpeacock (06-20-2022)
06-20-2022, 12:48 AM
#4419
I actually currently own an M2c MT myself and on multiple waitlists for the GT4. The M2c is so good that I am considering holding onto it if I get the call for a GT4. My heart is telling me to keep it, but my logic is telling me it would make no sense to have both cars lol. The S55 engine is just pure amazingness. Power in all gears at just about any time and of course, phenomenal handling and playfulness. If I do trade it in, it will definitely be missed.
06-20-2022, 09:25 AM
#4420
This is actually a great point. I definitely agree that if you are struggling to pay for a car and the stress of trying to keep it can definitely sour the overall ownership experience.
That being said i do also want to caution immediately jumping to the "cheaper option". Ive been wanting a GT4 for a long time now but never really felt likt it was smart to spend 120k+ on a car. So i ended up buying an M2 Competition, which i then traded for a Supra. At the end of the day, seeing how the car is nearing end of production and it being my dream car, i decided to just stop playing around with cars that, while were really good and amazing, just werent what i wanted. The 160k cost that i will be paying for my GT4(after tax and ADM) is a super hard pill to swallow, but its my dream car. And i know i'm going to enjoy it for a very long time.
That being said i do also want to caution immediately jumping to the "cheaper option". Ive been wanting a GT4 for a long time now but never really felt likt it was smart to spend 120k+ on a car. So i ended up buying an M2 Competition, which i then traded for a Supra. At the end of the day, seeing how the car is nearing end of production and it being my dream car, i decided to just stop playing around with cars that, while were really good and amazing, just werent what i wanted. The 160k cost that i will be paying for my GT4(after tax and ADM) is a super hard pill to swallow, but its my dream car. And i know i'm going to enjoy it for a very long time.
06-20-2022, 10:16 AM
#4421
$160K with ADM is a little high unless you go all out with PTS/PCCB/Buckets...well with tax maybe. I agreed to $25k adm on a GT4, and $20k for a spyder. I declined an open GTS 4.0 build slot at $5k adm. The GTS 4.0, is not a GT car and is not in the same class. It's too bad..because it's 85% the car, but it's not the same. I think 718 GT prices will comedown as production increases and I would look to buy a quality car then, rather than think you are going to miss the boat and grab a GTS because the dealer pushes you in that direction.... they want to move as many clients off the GT's into a GTS as possible. The difference in value between the GT4/Spyder(and RS's obviously) will be massive relative to the base versions. The RS cars will pull the GT4's along with them...;leaving the base cars way behind. Think about this...how many GT cars are selling for less than cost? The 2016-19 GT4/spyders will almost certainly fall way behind due to the engine...., but the chances of any of the 2020+ variants trading below cost is almost zero (if it's not wrecked or daily driven) given the electrification of these models in 2025 (possibly 2025 for model year 2026 at earliest, likely the GT versions will have overlap due to development cost of the engine. I'm looking at some pics of a updated 2025 interior for the Spyder....could it just be for the RS version or electric? Possibly, but I doubt it. I'm very confident they will dedicate an electrified production line for the electrified Base/S/GTS, then later address what to do with the GT versions, given emissions and covid delays. I don't they know yet...too much uncertainty. I'd bet a substantial amount of money the Cayman does not go electric for the MY2025 as previously stated. Also, the EU emissions mandates are not close to being finalized which initially pressured Porsche to figure out a plan.
With electrification on the horizon, I suspect 981 and 982 GT4/Spyders will hold value fairly well. There are enough enthusiasts and collectors out there to keep these cars desirable, meaning they will probably continue to sell for MSRP +/- 15% or so. Again, I'd never consider buying a car an investment and you should be ready to lose some money on it, but I don't think you'll ever take a bath on a GT4/Spyder.
06-20-2022, 12:55 PM
#4422
Three Wheelin'
$160K with ADM is a little high unless you go all out with PTS/PCCB/Buckets...well with tax maybe. I agreed to $25k adm on a GT4, and $20k for a spyder. I declined an open GTS 4.0 build slot at $5k adm. The GTS 4.0, is not a GT car and is not in the same class. It's too bad..because it's 85% the car, but it's not the same.
Ultimately that's what needs to be looked at. The GTS 4.0 does not share the same diligence put into the motorsport heritage the GT4/Spyder get... but it also doesn't cost (in this case) upwards of $50k more! And while they are in rare supply, they're easier to get than the GT cars. I'm sure it's worth it to some people, but not to me.
Especially in the case of the Spyder. EPIC looks, finally gets the GT chassis... but still with the manual roof! I wouldn't mind at all if this was a 2nd or 3rd car, but this will be my primary car. It will spend A LOT more time on the road than the track. Probably 95% or more... and I live in a climate where it may rain in the morning and be sunny in the afternoon. I love that I can hold a button for a few seconds below 37 mph and position the roof where I want it to be.
Add on tremendous pain for availability and ludicrous ADMs, and the appeal vanishes.
I do understand those that just have to have one though. Tough to argue with the street presence of a Spyder...
06-20-2022, 02:09 PM
#4423
Does anyone have actual numbers from Porsche? I know we can see how many 718's are delivered, but is there a publicly available breakdown? It could be some cognitive bias on my part, but I suspect there are less GTS 4.0's delivered than GT4/Spyders. Hell, I had a dealer offer me a Spyder allocation when he couldn't find me a BGTS 4.0.
Maybe I'm not the one with the bias, maybe it's Spyder/GT4 owners that paid ridiculous ADMs that are trying to justify their purchase.
Maybe I'm not the one with the bias, maybe it's Spyder/GT4 owners that paid ridiculous ADMs that are trying to justify their purchase.
06-20-2022, 02:48 PM
#4424
Does anyone have actual numbers from Porsche? I know we can see how many 718's are delivered, but is there a publicly available breakdown? It could be some cognitive bias on my part, but I suspect there are less GTS 4.0's delivered than GT4/Spyders. Hell, I had a dealer offer me a Spyder allocation when he couldn't find me a BGTS 4.0.
Maybe I'm not the one with the bias, maybe it's Spyder/GT4 owners that paid ridiculous ADMs that are trying to justify their purchase.
Maybe I'm not the one with the bias, maybe it's Spyder/GT4 owners that paid ridiculous ADMs that are trying to justify their purchase.
06-20-2022, 03:01 PM
#4425
Rennlist Member
Of course it's not the same, else what would justify the extra cost?
Ultimately that's what needs to be looked at. The GTS 4.0 does not share the same diligence put into the motorsport heritage the GT4/Spyder get... but it also doesn't cost (in this case) upwards of $50k more! And while they are in rare supply, they're easier to get than the GT cars. I'm sure it's worth it to some people, but not to me.
Especially in the case of the Spyder. EPIC looks, finally gets the GT chassis... but still with the manual roof! I wouldn't mind at all if this was a 2nd or 3rd car, but this will be my primary car. It will spend A LOT more time on the road than the track. Probably 95% or more... and I live in a climate where it may rain in the morning and be sunny in the afternoon. I love that I can hold a button for a few seconds below 37 mph and position the roof where I want it to be.
Add on tremendous pain for availability and ludicrous ADMs, and the appeal vanishes.
I do understand those that just have to have one though. Tough to argue with the street presence of a Spyder...
Ultimately that's what needs to be looked at. The GTS 4.0 does not share the same diligence put into the motorsport heritage the GT4/Spyder get... but it also doesn't cost (in this case) upwards of $50k more! And while they are in rare supply, they're easier to get than the GT cars. I'm sure it's worth it to some people, but not to me.
Especially in the case of the Spyder. EPIC looks, finally gets the GT chassis... but still with the manual roof! I wouldn't mind at all if this was a 2nd or 3rd car, but this will be my primary car. It will spend A LOT more time on the road than the track. Probably 95% or more... and I live in a climate where it may rain in the morning and be sunny in the afternoon. I love that I can hold a button for a few seconds below 37 mph and position the roof where I want it to be.
Add on tremendous pain for availability and ludicrous ADMs, and the appeal vanishes.
I do understand those that just have to have one though. Tough to argue with the street presence of a Spyder...