josephr25

15K over is the norm now, on the low side of things. I was at that dealership over the weekend... they stopped taking more people on the waitlist at this point since they don't know how many allocations are going to come through.

halfmonkey

The market is definitely different from when I put a deposit down for my car in July of 2020 but I'll share my process because if anything, you can try out of state and take delivery at PECLA with my method. Another option is to use a broker which some people have reported in this forum with success.

Otherwise, $15k ADM isn't too bad. At the end of the day, it's simply a matter of how bad do you want the car. $15k on a principal is a lot when they told you MSRP but getting the car in hand and enjoying that naturally aspirated 4.0 liter flat 6 may be worth more than $15k. Add in the uncertainty of maybe the next gen GT4/Spyder going away from the naturally aspirated engine to fully electric and maybe it's "worth" more than $15k. It's bad business relations to not honor their word but unfortunate to say, there is no such thing as honor when it comes to car dealers, at least for most of them.

https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-...l#post16767379

LISsailor

How else do you recommend controlling the price you pay outside of a direct negotiation with a seller that has a stated asking price? All these lists spring the ADM on you when your number comes up.

Bahnbrenner

This has been my experience exactly - And I suspect the experience of many others here on RL who refuse to pay ADM.

The way Porsche allocates cars to dealers creates (in my opinion) the worst dealership experience on the planet. Trying to get a car is a long, drawn out game filled with smoke and mirrors. You know you have a problem when dealership owners and GMs reserve allocations of highly desirable cars (i.e GT4RS) for themselves - Not for customers, for themselves!! That alone should be grounds for revoking a franchise, but the phenomenon referenced by OP (wherein dealers will deny a customer whos paid a deposit and spent a year or more waiting) is equally bad - Or perhaps even worse because its more widespread.

Not even Ferrari is as bad as Porsche in this regard. At least Ferrari dealers are honest with you. They'll tell you price of admission (buy another car first, make a donation to the race team, etc) and exactly where you stand. Porsche dealers lie, obfuscate and deflect. The best cars in the world are sold by the worst dealers.

The Leucardian

Interesting. So things really have gotten so bad that $15k over counts as the "low end" of the market? The scope creep here is hard to swallow. I think my build was originally about $110-112k. With pricing changes (and, admittedly, a few spec changes on my end), my build is now almost $120k. Add $15k ADM and that's a $135k total, which will be close to $150k after tax and license. We're getting really far from the "about $110k" number I had in my head when I started this process.

If anyone has a broker or out-of-state dealer they recommend I speak with where I might be able to do better than this, please message me.

Also, even if this is the "norm" right now for buying a Porsche, I agree with all of the comments that this is just a terrible way to do business. This buying experience has significantly damaged my view of the Porsche brand.

SpyderPlease

I am going to pay 25k adm for a Spyder. While hard to swallow, it just comes down to how much you want one new and customized. The 110k number isn’t quite fair since you didn’t add taxes/fees to that number like you did for the 135k. The 15k is on the low end of things and is really a 17k increase with taxes/fees. Is the extra 17k worth it to you for a gt4? That’s ultimately the question….

cooler2442

Unfortunately this is how the market is. Go try and buy any other "sports" car brand new for MSRP right now and learn that it's the same way.

No broker out of state is going to get you lower than 15k, you may be lucky to get 15-20k for an actual allocation right now that's available but I'd say its a small chance. I was offered 15k over MSRP for a Spyder order here in SoCal but they would have put me on the top of the "list" with an unknown wait time. I decided to just buy a used Spyder instead with a close enough spec that I wanted and could have right now to enjoy. Remember ordering a car means you will get it about a year from now.

Clementine33

I recently bought a '21 Spyder w/ 77 miles on it (a product of divorce). MSRP was $140K and I paid $153K plus $3K shipping (overnight on Memorial Weekend). The car has PCCB's, LWBS, PDK, full PPF, leather everything-very close to how I would spec it. I just didn't want to wait for an allocation and then have to wait forever for the car to be built & shipped from Germany like I did w/ my CGTS4.0.
So, I am firmly in the camp of "bird in hand." I have been enjoying my drives in this beautiful sunny weather and have yet to put the top up!

halfmonkey

Please keep in mind that even though this ADM is upsetting, it has nothing to do with Porsche Corporate. These dealers that have a Porsche logo on the front of the building is a 3rd party business that is owned and operated independent of Porsche Corporate. Yes, it can be said that Porsche Corporate can use their power to control some of these silly mark ups such as on GT4 RS or Sport Classic but that is not the business model for how these cars are bought and sold. Porsche Corporate makes their money when a car is "sold" to a dealer for the dealer to then sell to a customer. When the dealer sells it for $15k over MSRP or $100k over MSRP, Porsche Corporate doesn't see any of that money. It's pure extra money for the dealer so I get how upsetting it is to pay above a Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price but ultimately that is determined by market conditions. As the saying goes, an item is only worth what someone is willing to pay.

When minivans are selling for over MSRP, $15k for a possibly last gen naturally aspirated mid-engine Porsche seems like it isn't too bad. I never thought in my life I would see the day that a new minivan sells for over MSRP but here we are so charging $15k over and being able to spec your build isn't too bad in the big scheme of things. As I mentioned though in my previous post, it's still crappy how the dealer went from "confirmed" MSRP to oh, we're now at $15k over but to be honest, I'm not surprised the dealer did that. Just as you're trying to get the best deal, they're doing the same thing so you can't fault a free market.

Again, maybe try a broker (which will charge a fee) or just try contacting smaller dealers in smaller markets around the country. Buy the car with PECLA or PECATL delivery and make a trip out of it.

I'm not adding this response to attack you but just trying to add perspective of where the anger/disappointment really should be directed. At the end of the day, are you going to be more upset after time passes that you didn't buy the car or that they're charging you $15k over?

Chris2195

Speaking for me I think it's just exhausting to try and even track down a car. It's been my dream to own a Porsche since I was young and now that I'm in the fortunate position where I can buy a new one it's near impossible to get one. It took me to a week to even find a dealer to get me on a waiting list, which I put a deposit down just for the possibility of getting an allocation for a new Porsche and getting charged ADM. I can understand the market is nuts right now but it's still disheartening.

Xxyion

I think for the OP, he doesn't mind paying ADM, its more the transparency. And while yes, the dealerships are all 3rd party, they, at the end of the day DO represent Porsche and the brand. They are the people you talk to when you want to buy a Porsche and they are the ones that are supposed to provide that premium experience that Porsche promises.

Honestly I think if dealerships were just more transparent, we wouldn't have this sentiment. Like if the dealer had told OP 7 months ago, "hey I know we promised MSRP but due to COVID and other things, we can no longer honor that agreement", yeah it sucks, but at least they aren't wasting his time. AND it allows him to say "hey I am willing to pay 15k ADM" which probably meant he would have had a GT4 by now.

There are dealerships like this luckily, Redwood City Porsche near me was very transparent at how much ADM I'd have to pay and when to expect allocations. I even scored a GTS 4.0 allocation from them if I wanted it. However I managed to secure my allocation for a GT4 just a week prior.

Mdiesel64

IMO, this is the most important anecdote to keep in mind. If you can secure an allocation with a "market price" ADM, it may be one of the only ones offered to you before the dealer simply stops getting allocations.

Numerous dealerships I have spoken to are simply not adding more people to lists for cars as they are already so long and simply won't be able to fulfill demand before the run is over.

G.Irish

100% this. It's one thing to just tell people what the deal is and if they alter the deal, just be transparent about it. The infuriating thing is to have the dealer string you along for months or years only to change things up on you, thereby screwing up your whole car buying plan. If you wanna charge markups, be upfront so people can make a decision about what direction to go and not lose out on time they could've been enjoying a car.

That is the biggest stink about all of this, the lack of transparency. Here we have a bunch of people trying to buy some of the most expensive cars Porsche makes and many dealers just don't keep in the loop or try to play games with smoke and mirrors. This kinda thing can sour people on the whole brand and undermine accumulated goodwill.

Adrift

Dealers don't know when they will get allocations, in terms of concrete numbers. There is no way to promise an allocation, except in a general "if we get one" sense, especially on lower volume models.

cooler2442

Are you willing to pay 20k over MSRP? If so there's brokers who will find you an allocation available right now.