Tesla existential threat?
Racer
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 253
Likes: 139
Not if it doesn't get at least 200 miles of range. That's my personal line in the sand.
I drove an i3 for a weekend. While I love BMW and respect the i3, it wasn't a step up from the MX (all things considered). ...and yes, I am a bit put off that BMW never rose to the challenge (and still hasn't) of an EV with decent range.
I also own an i8 Roadster but that's an entirely different animal...
I drove an i3 for a weekend. While I love BMW and respect the i3, it wasn't a step up from the MX (all things considered). ...and yes, I am a bit put off that BMW never rose to the challenge (and still hasn't) of an EV with decent range.
I also own an i8 Roadster but that's an entirely different animal...
Racer
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 457
Likes: 95
From: California
Not if it doesn't get at least 200 miles of range. That's my personal line in the sand.
I drove an i3 for a weekend. While I love BMW and respect the i3, it wasn't a step up from the MX (all things considered). ...and yes, I am a bit put off that BMW never rose to the challenge (and still hasn't) of an EV with decent range.
I also own an i8 Roadster but that's an entirely different animal...
I drove an i3 for a weekend. While I love BMW and respect the i3, it wasn't a step up from the MX (all things considered). ...and yes, I am a bit put off that BMW never rose to the challenge (and still hasn't) of an EV with decent range.
I also own an i8 Roadster but that's an entirely different animal...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,056
Likes: 448
From: Northern California
Model S with prototype "Plaid" power train breaks 4-door lap record at Laguna Seca: https://electrek.co/2019/09/11/tesla...sis-prototype/
I wonder if the car they shipped to the 'ring for "testing" also has the Plaid power train?
I wonder if the car they shipped to the 'ring for "testing" also has the Plaid power train?
Racer
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 253
Likes: 139
The specific reason I consider the i3 a substandard product is simply because it has substandard range. Seems everybody but BMW is now manufacturing EV's with over 200 miles of range. Whether Tesla set the bar or not, it IS pretty much the standard now and BMW is NOT keeping up. As a long term BMW owner/lover I feel they have ignored us and there certainly no reason why they couldn't have delivered on the technology. 153 miles of range simply isn't competitive with the rest of the market. If BMW had delivered on their potential, I very likely would not be buying a Tacan. (...and I do already own an i8 Roadster)
Do you have a problem with 200+ just because it was TESLA who set that mark ... and it was 7 years ago ... and the rest of the industry (sans BMW) is only just now catching up? Not me! I'm actually excited about all the other vehicles which are finally becoming available!
...and the Taycan Turbo S DOES get more than 200 miles. I'm conservatively hearing 235 and optimistically hearing 289, so what's your point? (Yes I was HOPING for 300, but this will do...)
Last edited by evanevery; Sep 12, 2019 at 12:15 PM.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 457
Likes: 95
From: California
Feel free to set your own lines in the sand but mine is 200. And that's what is FAIR to me. Its based on 5-6 years of EV ownership and my daily range comfort factor.
The specific reason I consider the i3 a substandard product is simply because it has substandard range. Seems everybody but BMW is now manufacturing EV's with over 200 miles of range. Whether Tesla set the bar or not, it IS pretty much the standard now and BMW is NOT keeping up. As a long term BMW owner/lover I feel they have ignored us and there certainly no reason why they couldn't have delivered on the technology. 153 miles of range simply isn't competitive with the rest of the market. If BMW had delivered on their potential, I very likely would not be buying a Tacan. (...and I do already own an i8 Roadster)
Do you have a problem with 200+ just because it was TESLA who set that mark ... and it was 7 years ago ... and the rest of the industry (sans BMW) is only just now catching up? Not me! I'm actually excited about all the other vehicles which are finally becoming available!
...and the Taycan Turbo S DOES get more than 200 miles. I'm conservatively hearing 235 and optimistically hearing 289, so what's your point? (Yes I was HOPING for 300, but this will do...)
The specific reason I consider the i3 a substandard product is simply because it has substandard range. Seems everybody but BMW is now manufacturing EV's with over 200 miles of range. Whether Tesla set the bar or not, it IS pretty much the standard now and BMW is NOT keeping up. As a long term BMW owner/lover I feel they have ignored us and there certainly no reason why they couldn't have delivered on the technology. 153 miles of range simply isn't competitive with the rest of the market. If BMW had delivered on their potential, I very likely would not be buying a Tacan. (...and I do already own an i8 Roadster)
Do you have a problem with 200+ just because it was TESLA who set that mark ... and it was 7 years ago ... and the rest of the industry (sans BMW) is only just now catching up? Not me! I'm actually excited about all the other vehicles which are finally becoming available!
...and the Taycan Turbo S DOES get more than 200 miles. I'm conservatively hearing 235 and optimistically hearing 289, so what's your point? (Yes I was HOPING for 300, but this will do...)
Racer
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 253
Likes: 139
"Hats off (and wallets out) for a brand like Porsche getting there earlier than many! (inc BMW)"
...cause I never mentioned the i3 (must less said it "wasn't an EV") and that's the only BMW reference in that quote.
"Getting There" is simply a reference to the 200+ mile mark mentioned twice earlier in that posting. IOW: The i3 was/is "too little, too late" to be a serious contender for me...
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,514
Likes: 4,927
From: Santa Cruz, CA
https://www.teslarati.com/daimler-ab...gine-over-evs/
surprised not more conversation on this topic…seems like a big deal.
surprised not more conversation on this topic…seems like a big deal.
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RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 9,379
Likes: 2,904
From: The Woodlands, TX.
https://www.teslarati.com/daimler-ab...gine-over-evs/
surprised not more conversation on this topic…seems like a big deal.
surprised not more conversation on this topic…seems like a big deal.
Daimler abandons internal combustion engine development to focus on EVs
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 18,916
Likes: 14,974
https://www.teslarati.com/daimler-ab...gine-over-evs/
surprised not more conversation on this topic…seems like a big deal.
surprised not more conversation on this topic…seems like a big deal.
And while Daimler may no longer develop ICE, it doesn't necessarily mean that they will stop making ICE cars. Just keep using the current engines on-hand in future cars, perhaps?
Maybe there will be a day when ICE will be made by one or two companies (like ZF for DCT gearboxes) and then outsourced to various car companies.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,024
Likes: 131
From: NY -> MA
That's astonishing, though in the days of 300 HP being meh and 400, 500, 600 and more being achieved on the regular (ok maybe not regular, but, you know), maybe it's time to focus elsewhere.
RL Community Team
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 12,279
Likes: 819
From: Atlanta, Georgia
I don't think they will stop making ICE vehicles. And just because they say they're going to stop developing ICE engines doesn't mean they aren't going to return to their development at a later time.
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 9,379
Likes: 2,904
From: The Woodlands, TX.
I wonder if the development of the ICE has reached a zenith. Is there really anything a marque can do -- on a cost-effective and regulatory compliant basis -- to improve upon the traditional ICE without hybridization?
And while Daimler may no longer develop ICE, it doesn't necessarily mean that they will stop making ICE cars. Just keep using the current engines on-hand in future cars, perhaps?
Maybe there will be a day when ICE will be made by one or two companies (like ZF for DCT gearboxes) and then outsourced to various car companies.
And while Daimler may no longer develop ICE, it doesn't necessarily mean that they will stop making ICE cars. Just keep using the current engines on-hand in future cars, perhaps?
Maybe there will be a day when ICE will be made by one or two companies (like ZF for DCT gearboxes) and then outsourced to various car companies.
Consider the technology their new I6 engines have:
- 48 v. electrics
- Integrated starter generator
- Mild hybrid power from electric motor.
- Electrically powered turbocharger (supercharger really)
- No accessories from serpentine belt.
It's no wonder that they are slowing / stopping development on ICE engines.
No, they will continue making them for some time. And you're right, they always could resume if there is some breakthrough by a supplier, independent lab, etc.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,430
Likes: 1,689
From: Northeast/Europe
https://www.teslarati.com/daimler-ab...gine-over-evs/
surprised not more conversation on this topic…seems like a big deal.
surprised not more conversation on this topic…seems like a big deal.
