Tesla existential threat?
Race Car
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,224
Likes: 102
From: SoCal
If you put your hand on the hood and there is heat an hour after the car is OFF, it’s probably not efficient. If you use liquid fuel and do on board combustion, you’ve already lost. 95% of the energy escapes. A new GT3 RS still only gets 12 MPG. You really need to get 120 MPG to be a player in this game.
Again, avoid your hyperbole (BS) to distort the facts!
Need some help?
https://www.greencarreports.com/news...-of-38-percent
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...ig10_222531686
Last edited by Lorenfb; Sep 4, 2019 at 12:46 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,056
Likes: 448
From: Northern California
Learning about battery chemistry and being knowledgeable about them does not equal to having some research done. But good enough to make a choice when battery manufacturers show their portfolio to them. I pay great respect to J.B. Straubel. Maybe if Elon had not showed up at Tesla, these would be honest and reliable cars now.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 457
Likes: 95
From: California
Yeah I go to the Porsche Experience Center in LA or Atlanta and try all of the new cars. Occasionally a student lets me drive her car at Thunderhill, Laguna or Sonoma.
I don’t think you understand the sensation of the center of gravity being below your butt in the car. It’s why an EV cannot rollover. It’s impossible. Stiff springs are all you need when modding an EV. Swaybars are worthless, use the thinnest one possible.
I realize Porsche is billing this as a luxury limo with a 3 chamber air suspension and fancy dynamic swaybar endlinks. Soft springs will make it feel plush. But as all know you can forgo all of this and just use a 2-way suspension with linear springs, maybe like 700 rear and 500 front so it brakes and turns in nicely. Of course you won’t want to have rear seat passengers ever again.
I don’t think you understand the sensation of the center of gravity being below your butt in the car. It’s why an EV cannot rollover. It’s impossible. Stiff springs are all you need when modding an EV. Swaybars are worthless, use the thinnest one possible.
I realize Porsche is billing this as a luxury limo with a 3 chamber air suspension and fancy dynamic swaybar endlinks. Soft springs will make it feel plush. But as all know you can forgo all of this and just use a 2-way suspension with linear springs, maybe like 700 rear and 500 front so it brakes and turns in nicely. Of course you won’t want to have rear seat passengers ever again.
In addition to low center of gravity the skateboard design also have center of mass right in the middle of the car between two axles. It's better than even the mid-engine setup. EV has all the advantages other than at the moment battery cost and charging convenience. These will eventually be resolved. On the other hand you can never cheat the physics. In some years people will ask why in the world we wanted ICE cars before.
Race Car
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,224
Likes: 102
From: SoCal
Good, you've done some Googling! Consider focusing on "technical" threads such as this one you posted on;
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...hre-rc103.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...hre-rc103.html
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 813
Likes: 137
From: California
When Porsche fails with a design in the long run, the intention was still good (make a good product and save money where they can) but the design failed. Elon made shortcuts intentionally. Skipping testing phase of press machines that generated the gap hell. Don't fully spray the cars. Skip water leakage and driveability testing. This is not the same level.
t’s why an EV cannot rollover. It’s impossible. Stiff springs are all you need when modding an EV. Swaybars are worthless, use the thinnest one possible.
I realize Porsche is billing this as a luxury limo with a 3 chamber air suspension and fancy dynamic swaybar endlinks. Soft springs will make it feel plush. But as all know you can forgo all of this and just use a 2-way suspension with linear springs, maybe like 700 rear and 500 front so it brakes and turns in nicely. Of course you won’t want to have rear seat passengers ever again.
I realize Porsche is billing this as a luxury limo with a 3 chamber air suspension and fancy dynamic swaybar endlinks. Soft springs will make it feel plush. But as all know you can forgo all of this and just use a 2-way suspension with linear springs, maybe like 700 rear and 500 front so it brakes and turns in nicely. Of course you won’t want to have rear seat passengers ever again.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 457
Likes: 95
From: California
What are your experiences with any Porsche or Tesla cars?
Race Car
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,985
Likes: 1,215
Yeah I go to the Porsche Experience Center in LA or Atlanta and try all of the new cars. Occasionally a student lets me drive her car at Thunderhill, Laguna or Sonoma.
I don’t think you understand the sensation of the center of gravity being below your butt in the car. It’s why an EV cannot rollover. It’s impossible. Stiff springs are all you need when modding an EV. Swaybars are worthless, use the thinnest one possible.
I realize Porsche is billing this as a luxury limo with a 3 chamber air suspension and fancy dynamic swaybar endlinks. Soft springs will make it feel plush. But as all know you can forgo all of this and just use a 2-way suspension with linear springs, maybe like 700 rear and 500 front so it brakes and turns in nicely. Of course you won’t want to have rear seat passengers ever again.
I don’t think you understand the sensation of the center of gravity being below your butt in the car. It’s why an EV cannot rollover. It’s impossible. Stiff springs are all you need when modding an EV. Swaybars are worthless, use the thinnest one possible.
I realize Porsche is billing this as a luxury limo with a 3 chamber air suspension and fancy dynamic swaybar endlinks. Soft springs will make it feel plush. But as all know you can forgo all of this and just use a 2-way suspension with linear springs, maybe like 700 rear and 500 front so it brakes and turns in nicely. Of course you won’t want to have rear seat passengers ever again.
Huh? My daily driver is a 17' 718 Boxster S. We/wife just got a Model 3 performance a few months ago. I do drive it frequently too. Sorry having to say it but the Model 3 is a better driver's car in pretty much every way. (Body roll? Are you kidding me? BMW M3 is a stiff car but not a stable car in comparison.)
Instructor
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 106
Likes: 32
Racer
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 457
Likes: 95
From: California
Take it to a winding mountain road and you'll know. The Boxster is agile but the Model 3 P is like it's on rails. A bit more steering effort but it, contrary to what the other poster said, pretty much is void of any body rolls. The biggest difference is when you get out of a steep sharp corner the Tesla will shoot out like an arrow but you need to patiently wait for the Porsche to wind up speed. The same goes when you are doing your usual stop light or on ramp drag races.
Last edited by RonF; Sep 4, 2019 at 01:51 PM.
Race Car
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,224
Likes: 102
From: SoCal
Finally, a worthy Tesla competitor will come to market.
The Porsche Taycan is looking like it will be a serious Tesla challenger. All along the automaker has touted that this car will be built in Porsche tradition.
Track ready, with a battery, drive unit and a cooling system able to withstand sustained high speeds and repeated accelerations without overheating.
Porsche has already demonstrated its endurance capability at the Nardo test track in Italy. It ran the Taycan at a nearly constant 127 MPH for 24 hours
except for charging stops and logged a total of ~2129 miles of endurance testing with no overheating. It also ran repeated accelerations from 0-124 MPH without overheating.
The Porsche Taycan is looking like it will be a serious Tesla challenger. All along the automaker has touted that this car will be built in Porsche tradition.
Track ready, with a battery, drive unit and a cooling system able to withstand sustained high speeds and repeated accelerations without overheating.
Porsche has already demonstrated its endurance capability at the Nardo test track in Italy. It ran the Taycan at a nearly constant 127 MPH for 24 hours
except for charging stops and logged a total of ~2129 miles of endurance testing with no overheating. It also ran repeated accelerations from 0-124 MPH without overheating.
Ironically, the most aerodynamic car, the Taycan Turbo, is not the one that accelerates faster from 0 to 60 mph. That is the Turbo S, which gets an extra boost
when you activate the Taycan's Launch Control feature. In such situations, the car is able to deliver 671 hp as the Turbo or 751 hp as the Turbo S. Porsche only disclosed
the Taycan's maximum available torque – or else, the one available when Launch Control is activated. That is 626.9 lb-ft for the Taycan Turbo and 774.4 lb-ft for the Turbo S,
as you can see on our table.
when you activate the Taycan's Launch Control feature. In such situations, the car is able to deliver 671 hp as the Turbo or 751 hp as the Turbo S. Porsche only disclosed
the Taycan's maximum available torque – or else, the one available when Launch Control is activated. That is 626.9 lb-ft for the Taycan Turbo and 774.4 lb-ft for the Turbo S,
as you can see on our table.
https://insideevs.com/news/368636/po...e-tesla-rival/
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 9,363
Likes: 2,895
From: The Woodlands, TX.
BFD. So it's got better "sustained performance".
The fact is, it's a sedan. And therefore used as daily transport. A 280 mile WLTP should be about 230-240 EPA which means a real world range at high speed highway driving of about 200 or less.
Range = fail.
Price = huge fail. The figures do not really beat a Model S Performance. Can you do them more repatedly? Sure. How often do you crack off 0-124 on a daily basis. Not more than once I would think. Model S or Model 3 is more than capable of keeping up in daily driving. And at a much lower cost.
Yeah, this won't bother or impact Tesla sales one iota.
The fact is, it's a sedan. And therefore used as daily transport. A 280 mile WLTP should be about 230-240 EPA which means a real world range at high speed highway driving of about 200 or less.
Range = fail.
Price = huge fail. The figures do not really beat a Model S Performance. Can you do them more repatedly? Sure. How often do you crack off 0-124 on a daily basis. Not more than once I would think. Model S or Model 3 is more than capable of keeping up in daily driving. And at a much lower cost.
Yeah, this won't bother or impact Tesla sales one iota.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,285
Likes: 413
Porsche is using their endurance nonsense to compare to the 2012 Model S - not what Tesla offers today.
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,491
Likes: 4,887
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Porsche's plan is now crystal clear.
Sell 40,000 units at $170k each (average price) to our core market that doesn't know any better - $6.8 billion revenue, 30-40% margin (Porsche normal) - play up the performance angle (something people rarely use) and see how this whole EV thing plays out - because based on that I saw today they clearly didn't go for the best EV possible.
Sell 40,000 units at $170k each (average price) to our core market that doesn't know any better - $6.8 billion revenue, 30-40% margin (Porsche normal) - play up the performance angle (something people rarely use) and see how this whole EV thing plays out - because based on that I saw today they clearly didn't go for the best EV possible.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 457
Likes: 95
From: California
