Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
09-27-2014, 06:01 AM
Rennlist Member
I am guessing 993 C2 would be quicker on this crude basis - I can circulate my stock car on R rubber in low 16's at HD.
The racing 44 S2's (which is basically a 968) on R rubber are high 15's with track suspension and weighing approx - 1100kg's (i.e. Chris B's car)
A 968 CS weighs 1320kg's, so will add approx 2 sec's to a lap, allow another second for track focused but not race car setup suspension, and I would take an educated guess a well sorted stock-ish 968 CS would circulate in 1.18's??
Just my crude - educated guess??
09-27-2014, 06:01 AM
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 2,085
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can't remember the last time I saw a Gen II manual on TM.... (yes I am being defensive!!)
09-27-2014, 06:07 AM
Rennlist Member
You would probably be able to 'google' ring times for both cars?
I am guessing 993 C2 would be quicker on this crude basis - I can circulate my stock car on R rubber in low 16's at HD.
The racing 44 S2's (which is basically a 968) on R rubber are high 15's with track suspension and weighing approx - 1100kg's (i.e. Chris B's car)
A 968 CS weighs 1320kg's, so will add approx 2 sec's to a lap, allow another second for track focused but not race car setup suspension, and I would take an educated guess a well sorted stock-ish 968 CS would circulate in 1.18's??
Just my crude - educated guess??
I am guessing 993 C2 would be quicker on this crude basis - I can circulate my stock car on R rubber in low 16's at HD.
The racing 44 S2's (which is basically a 968) on R rubber are high 15's with track suspension and weighing approx - 1100kg's (i.e. Chris B's car)
A 968 CS weighs 1320kg's, so will add approx 2 sec's to a lap, allow another second for track focused but not race car setup suspension, and I would take an educated guess a well sorted stock-ish 968 CS would circulate in 1.18's??
Just my crude - educated guess??
09-27-2014, 06:10 AM
Rennlist Member
Looks like the self proclaimed gods of bullsh*t numbers and fantasy predictions have unanimously spoken Nik. A nicely fettled and lightly enhanced 993/968CS lap time difference is approximately 2.0s a lap in the dry on R comps at HD :-)
09-27-2014, 06:10 AM
Rennlist Member
The last 968 RS turbo I saw change hands was 330k usd. I suspect more like 550k now....
I never said the CaymanR was an investment only that the one on TM was priced well to the UK market and the depreciation had proven relatively modest to date.
nZ retail already puts you 30% higher than the other main markets before the car drives off the forecourt so you can't use it as a real yard stick.
The Spyder is a different situation. If you follow Porsche history they don't use the speedster shape on a regular generational basis. They made only 1883 Spyders and it's unlikely they will repeat in the 981 generation as most of the alloy improvements are already built into the platform and they will not revert Coilover in favour of PASM.
The Spyder new in 2011 was 46k Gbp base and is currently trading 38-42k GBP used 3 years old with pundits talking about it fetching it's original RRP within the next few years. They only produced it 12 months.
Lastly every 911 that I know of has depreciated for a long long time before it appreciated to over its original CPI adjusted retail price. I put in there 2.7rs which was below its sale price for 28 years as well as 964rs almost 20 years and 993rs approx 17 years.
The only 911 I know that is worth more than it's list price within 24 months of sale is a modern water cooled car the 4.0RS.
So when we talk of the Spyder being a good investment at 85k I believe it is as you can own it enjoy it put some real low cost and hassle mileage on it now and quite possibly over the next few years loose possibly very little or if exported to UK maybe loose nothing at all..
I never said the CaymanR was an investment only that the one on TM was priced well to the UK market and the depreciation had proven relatively modest to date.
nZ retail already puts you 30% higher than the other main markets before the car drives off the forecourt so you can't use it as a real yard stick.
The Spyder is a different situation. If you follow Porsche history they don't use the speedster shape on a regular generational basis. They made only 1883 Spyders and it's unlikely they will repeat in the 981 generation as most of the alloy improvements are already built into the platform and they will not revert Coilover in favour of PASM.
The Spyder new in 2011 was 46k Gbp base and is currently trading 38-42k GBP used 3 years old with pundits talking about it fetching it's original RRP within the next few years. They only produced it 12 months.
Lastly every 911 that I know of has depreciated for a long long time before it appreciated to over its original CPI adjusted retail price. I put in there 2.7rs which was below its sale price for 28 years as well as 964rs almost 20 years and 993rs approx 17 years.
The only 911 I know that is worth more than it's list price within 24 months of sale is a modern water cooled car the 4.0RS.
So when we talk of the Spyder being a good investment at 85k I believe it is as you can own it enjoy it put some real low cost and hassle mileage on it now and quite possibly over the next few years loose possibly very little or if exported to UK maybe loose nothing at all..
My pic is manual Caymen S's as a future - shouldn't loose too much money cars either.
Macca - 968 RS Turbo's have nothing to do with Nic's question.
I believe Nic's question was if you changed nothing on the 968 CS car but the badge from CS to RS - would they be worth more? My answer is no.
09-27-2014, 06:20 AM
Rennlist Member
the point I am trying to make is that an R or RS badge instead of a CS badge would make no difference to the value of a car.
My point is also that even the so called low volume collectable cars (except for the UK) all drop significantly in value from new (i.e Sport Classic $450K new - and one sold for $270K with delivery miles 12 months later) - I doubt the 997 Speedsters that sold for over $400K would still command this.
I think the Cayman R on TM is a Bargain at $90K given your car is probably worth $80K. The depreciation from new has been less on your car than the Cayman R - which is ironic given your car has high production numbers and no 'R' badge.
Last edited by kiwi 911; 09-27-2014 at 06:40 AM.
09-27-2014, 06:20 AM
Rennlist Member
Paul. I haven't had TV for 10 years so I appreciate you helping fill in my Saturday evening!
No I don't do facebook, but I have an account so I can be a voyeur (your sister looks quite sweet on that bike she was riding with her kid last weekend)
But thanks for the picture of my car at The James Dean weekend. I lent it to Dean so he could make sure everyone got up on time tomorrow morning! Its nice that even if I cant be there in person I can in spirit....
I wish PCNZ would sort out their BS membership to facebook page system. My FB membership is under company name and Ive applied membership 5 times and even emailed them but they dont seem to beable to figure out the connection.....
No I don't do facebook, but I have an account so I can be a voyeur (your sister looks quite sweet on that bike she was riding with her kid last weekend)
But thanks for the picture of my car at The James Dean weekend. I lent it to Dean so he could make sure everyone got up on time tomorrow morning! Its nice that even if I cant be there in person I can in spirit....
I wish PCNZ would sort out their BS membership to facebook page system. My FB membership is under company name and Ive applied membership 5 times and even emailed them but they dont seem to beable to figure out the connection.....
09-27-2014, 06:26 AM
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Kapiti - New Zealand
Posts: 1,239
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh mate - before even reading your post I just said in another post I saw manual Cayman's as semi-collectable...................
the point I am trying to make is that an R or RS badge instead of a CS badge would make difference to the value of a car.
My point is also that even the so called low volume collectable cars (except for the UK) all drop significantly in value from new (i.e Sport Classic $450K new - and one sold for $270K with delivery miles 12 months later) - I doubt the 997 Speedsters that sold for over $400K would still command this.
I think the Cayman R on TM is a Bargain at $90K given your car is probably worth $80K. The depreciation from new has been less on your car than the Cayman R - which is ironic given your car has high production numbers and no 'R' badge.
the point I am trying to make is that an R or RS badge instead of a CS badge would make difference to the value of a car.
My point is also that even the so called low volume collectable cars (except for the UK) all drop significantly in value from new (i.e Sport Classic $450K new - and one sold for $270K with delivery miles 12 months later) - I doubt the 997 Speedsters that sold for over $400K would still command this.
I think the Cayman R on TM is a Bargain at $90K given your car is probably worth $80K. The depreciation from new has been less on your car than the Cayman R - which is ironic given your car has high production numbers and no 'R' badge.
I still believe the Sport Classic will be a "future" collectable.
09-27-2014, 06:30 AM
Rennlist Member
09-27-2014, 06:30 AM
Rennlist Member
Oh mate - before even reading your post I just said in another post I saw manual Cayman's as semi-collectable...................
the point I am trying to make is that an R or RS badge instead of a CS badge would make difference to the value of a car.
My point is also that even the so called low volume collectable cars (except for the UK) all drop significantly in value from new (i.e Sport Classic $450K new - and one sold for $270K with delivery miles 12 months later) - I doubt the 997 Speedsters that sold for over $400K would still command this.
I think the Cayman R on TM is a Bargain at $90K given your car is probably worth $80K. The depreciation from new has been less on your car than the Cayman R - which is ironic given your car has high production numbers and no 'R' badge.
the point I am trying to make is that an R or RS badge instead of a CS badge would make difference to the value of a car.
My point is also that even the so called low volume collectable cars (except for the UK) all drop significantly in value from new (i.e Sport Classic $450K new - and one sold for $270K with delivery miles 12 months later) - I doubt the 997 Speedsters that sold for over $400K would still command this.
I think the Cayman R on TM is a Bargain at $90K given your car is probably worth $80K. The depreciation from new has been less on your car than the Cayman R - which is ironic given your car has high production numbers and no 'R' badge.
Here is a 2009 Cayman S in manual with low Kms on TM for 60K (probably take 57K offer):
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used...-758028528.htm
The Sport Classic was down in the UK at the same time the NZ car sold circa 270K NZD last year. Now Sprot Classics have gone up alot. The 997.2 GT3 4.0RS last year same time was 220K GBP now a good one is 300K GBP so it seems a trend.
We need to make sure we are looking at the same metrics. Quoting NZ retail metrics then referring top global or UK prices is not looking at apples with apples. UK prices at retail are 35% lower than NZ and there is FX adjustments. In the UK a 997 speedster is worth what it cost new 2 years on but in NZ it is not and will not possibly till it gets exported to UK.
I do agree with you that the non 911 cars are not experiencing the same lift as the 911 market. As you and I spoke the other day it makes 356's very well priced right now. 968 CS are too. Both models will eventually rise with the tide but agree the 968 CS will never be a 2.7Rs but if it were called an RS I reckon it would be doing a little better than it is now...
P.S. Both your sister are cute ;-)
P.P.S. Jamie - I agree the Sport Classic is definitely a future collectable. Infact right now its hiking in price to a point where none of them will ever be used properly again. It seems we are the middle of an "event" where even very late model cars have balloned in value - such a shame really - I would have spent my 991 GT3 money on the Sport Classic as it came up just at that time and I looked at it and really did love it but as Paul said at the time would be too scared to drive it hard as it was already irreplaceable...
09-27-2014, 06:41 AM
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 2,085
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Serves you right for not watching the Ryder Cup live!
All this talk of lap times has me wondering how Neil got on today in his first outing with the new race car - very keen to hear. Was a perfect day for it - next w/e not looking so flash.
All this talk of lap times has me wondering how Neil got on today in his first outing with the new race car - very keen to hear. Was a perfect day for it - next w/e not looking so flash.
09-27-2014, 06:48 AM
Rennlist Member
I think you may be digging a bit hard bud.
Here is a 2009 Cayman S in manual with low Kms on TM for 60K (probably take 57K offer):
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used...-758028528.htm
P.S. Both your sister are cute ;-)
..
Here is a 2009 Cayman S in manual with low Kms on TM for 60K (probably take 57K offer):
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used...-758028528.htm
P.S. Both your sister are cute ;-)
..
You leave my sisters out of this...........
(must admit hard to see the family resemblance - they got the good looking genes)
09-27-2014, 06:54 AM
Rennlist Member
Yeah. That CaymanS was NZ new as well. Now the Cayman R and Spyder (RRP list prices around 140-150K NZD) dont look quite so bad. Porsche are raising the Cayman/boxster prices every generation tho. Look at the new GTS its pretty much 63K GBP once specced. What will they ask in NZ for it ($180k??). God help us when the "GT4"/R breaks cover that will be a $200K car in NZ with afew options way its looking...
Yeah sorry about the genes mate (could have sworn they were only half sisters!). Kidding!!
Yeah sorry about the genes mate (could have sworn they were only half sisters!). Kidding!!
09-27-2014, 07:01 AM
Rennlist Member
Yeah. That CaymanS was NZ new as well. Now the Cayman R and Spyder (RRP list prices around 140-150K NZD) dont look quite so bad. Porsche are raising the Cayman/boxster prices every generation tho. Look at the new GTS its pretty much 63K GBP once specced. What will they ask in NZ for it ($180k??). God help us when the "GT4"/R breaks cover that will be a $200K car in NZ with afew options way its looking...
Yeah sorry about the genes mate (could have sworn they were only half sisters!). Kidding!!
Yeah sorry about the genes mate (could have sworn they were only half sisters!). Kidding!!
^^^^^^^actually - will be interesting to see how many more cars go back if UK car market stays strong and our dollar cheapens??
What does a used 997 GTS sell for - I saw a red car on the side of the road the other day and it was stunning...............
09-27-2014, 07:06 AM
Rennlist Member
P.s. Anyone gutted David Cunliffe resigned today??
I was looking forward to seeing the construction industry cope with building an extra 10,000 houses a year?? Would have made for a spectacular property market and construction boom (well for a few years anyway........)
I was looking forward to seeing the construction industry cope with building an extra 10,000 houses a year?? Would have made for a spectacular property market and construction boom (well for a few years anyway........)