nzskater

an '08 GT3 with 10,000km. Out of Sydney, it looked to have been an insurance write off but seller claimed to have spent $5000 to bring it back to life, with no outstanding issues. Unable to be registered in the state, he was trying to flick it off in NZ. Not the best premise for a purchase, but potentially a great buy at NZ$80,000

pcarplayer

And its been removed from TM already. If it sold I thought the ad says "withdrawn by seller" or some such thing. Perhaps something else was afoot

gt38088

John
container due end September was my last email from Rob and he would advise once landed as to customs clearance and gst etc

John McM

Thanks Graeme. I just bought a couple of go jacks from Super Cheap ($134 each on special) so I'm reorganizing the garage to have enough room to put three cars in, one of which will be able to go on jack stands with enough room to work on. The stands are the next step so good to hear its close. I want to do the Turbo 3.6 calipers first up.

gt38088

that sounds cheap John what weight approved for?

John McM

Very solid. 680kg. Supposedly half price. Lifted the Turbo 3.6 very effectively, although I will likely lay up the 996TT using them and run the 964s over Summer.

http://m.supercheapauto.co.nz/Produc...c-680kg/128776

RS ZWEI

Oh, ok, saw that. I saved a couple of picks. It seemed to good to be true.

nzskater

Can view the listing here, has been withdrawn by TradeMe: Dodgy GT3 for sale

Maxem

I don't know for sure but if it isn't registered in the country of origin, compliance this end is a hassle.

John McM

No problem. Just do a 'Grinch' and drive it unregistered

Seriously, based on the costs Neil was talking about post NITT the 997 GT3 needs to be owned by people with deep pockets. If the price alone lights up the eyes then it's not likely a car you can afford.

gt38088

hmm I thought the common theory on this thread and mentioned many times was that newer gt3 was the best way for track miles because of newer technology being good out of the box and maintenance mostly being consumables? That not the case? or are we simply observing that even consumables are expensive for 997 gt3?

John McM

It is the common theory Graeme. The bit that stuck in my mind was the bill $$$ not the breakdown of what was done. I think it's just proving that the cheapest Porsche to run is one in storage!

Luke944

The Mk 1/2 silver 996 GT3 is now back on Trade Me too. Didn't even do his own new photos... http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used...-785401625.htm

Macca

Gents. It’s been a while since I last posted, but I have been keeping one eye on this board (mostly to see if John has managed to breed Shrek with Black Betty yet!).
Ill make up for my 2+ week silence in one go then!

Make yourself a coffee and take a seat!

I thought Id take a moment to recap on the NITT event:

First, much thanks to Pete (RSG CFO) for being the back bone of organisation and Matt B for his incredible generosity and the use of his most excellent home for entertaining. A perfect host!
For me, this year’s NITT was intended to be an opportunity to get extensive dry track time in both my cars, not only to make up some track time compared to others, but also to better understand which of my two 911’s will become the future “track hack”.

Unfortunately the weather in Taupo thwarted my plan! Actually, even should it have been dry -driving 2 x 20min sessions per hour for 6-7 hours would have actually been very tiring. As it turns out Taupo was wet and VERY slick. I ended up running 9 sessions between both cars, doing some gardening and a 360 in the 993 and putting the GT3 into a 180 degree slide (managed to stay on the back stuff for that one!). Quite honestly it wasn’t the fun I was looking for but there was one consolation to my disappointment….I had a roof unlike hard assed Graeme in the Fraser (by the way the Fraser now has GT3 rivalling power to weight ratio)!

The next big learn was logistics for two cars on the same track day is tough. Jumping from one to the other meant coming in early from a session and transferring gear (Vbox). Infact in the rush I forgot to turn the damn thing on, but my PB lap from last year was never in any danger of getting slaughtered on that day as I pretty certain I did not get anywhere near breaking a 1.50 (in either car)!!

Another learn was that jumping between two significantly different vehicles was folly. From 6 point harness vs single, to gearbox, tires, and overall handling and power – it was a mind bender for the first lap or two each time one went out.

My last two learns were actually useful experiences for future possible wet/cold track days. Firstly, never let your tyre pressures down too low to start with. I dropped both cars pressures 7-8 psi in the morning before the first session assuming they would build temperature during the session (like they would have on the SITT). Unfortunately in the wet the tyres don’t get the friction they do in the dry and with 10-17C ambient through the day the tyres remained woefully underinflated for the duration of the day! My final words of wisdom which probably seem logical to the seasoned here would be “stay away from the apex rumble strips and any paint in the rain”. Anything painted on the track that day was slippery as hell from a combination of prior rubber and rain. I can attribute at least one of my offs to this….

So, by the afternoon of Taupo Id decided to quite the heroics and treat the NITT as a social event like everyone else! Similar conditions were forecast for the following day in Manfield so I abandoned the two car plan and instead chose the car I felt was less likely to be a ;liability (in all senses of the words) in the rain – the GT3! I have to confess my decision was heavily affected by the two crash outs that day particularly the 993 which I studied closely after the accident and was clearly written off. I think that single event shaped my decision the most.

Early to bed and the next morning it was lashing down. I followed John to Taihape. Conditions were atrocious but with Johns 4WD 964 clearing some of the water ahead and being in the GT3 on slush box mode with heated buckets on, all nannies switched on it really wasn’t as hairy for me as many of the others on the way down. Only real learning, the aluminium roof on the new GT3 is much louder in pouring rain than a steel one!

Over the hills to Manfield and the rain departed and the sky was fairly bright littered with clouds. We couldn’t believe it!

Manfield is a great track. From last years’ experience my opinion was it suited older less power cars that handled well. It was going to be interesting to see how the GT3 went there!

In total I ran four sessions only at Manfield packing up before the fifth and final session at 3pm when it started to look like the rain would set in (infact it wasn’t as bad as we thought it would be). It rained for around 10 mins around 2pm between our 3rd and 4th session which slowed proceedings for my last outing, but I had a passenger for that ride and it was a lot of fun.

Finally in the dry I was able to learn more about the GT3. Firstly, it’s a totally different car to drive well than the 993. Ive owned the 993 for 14 years so know it fairly well. The GT3 I had only 1 trial session at HD in the car in July, 4 very wet sessions at Taupo the day before where I just concentrated on staying on the track!

So what did I learn. Firstly I learned that I had forgotten more than I had remembered about driving at Manfield in the 12 months that had passed since last time! Sure my apexing was fine but the lines I was carrying between corners was not optimal and Im sure if Ray Williams had have been in the car like last year he would have been yanking the wheel and telling me my mistakes. Im sure I big apexed the sweeper 40 different ways in 4 sessions!

Unfortunately like often is the case I didn’t identify my mistakes until long after the day when I was reviewing the in car footage! I think this is where it is critical to have the camera mounted so you can see through the front window and see the driver and his steering inputs and read his dash gauges!
Perhaps my biggest learning was that the GT3 carries WAY more speed through corners than the 993. I was constantly over braking in this car. To make matters worse I left the car in Sport Auto again (track oriented auto shifts) and manually overrode with the paddles. This was mostly because I was still learning the car – but the simple fact was I couldn’t force myself to trust the car on upshifts. Downshifts were great but coasting and upshifts threw me. For example barrelling down the front straight hitting 210kmph I would typically take my foot off the throttle at the 100+ m mark then wait a moment before braking, heel toe from 5ht to 3rd applying the brake harder and harder as I went into the corner letting the clutch out fully at the apex turning in and then get on the gas as the wheel starts straightening out. Im sure everyone on here is the same. In the GT3 in sport auto as soon as I took my foot of the gas at 100m+ the box would change down! This would mena I was now going slower than I anticipated. Through the corner Id give it the gas and it would short shift from 2nd to 3rd instead of running out to say 8500+ rpm – again something that threw me as I was expecting to travel in second further. Im sure its picking the max torque point for shifting to improve momentum but I wasn’t expecting that and would rather it behaved like I expected even if I went a fraction slower.

Lesson learned, Ill be using the box in Manual next time I go to the track! I think it will be easier for me. And I will brake later and carry more speed into a corner (once I figured out the correct lines ha ha!).

Other than that the car has a lot of grip even on the mpsc2 tyres it shipped with. The ESC hardly triggered once at Manfield so I left it on. It’s very very “generous” as many owners have discovered. The breadth of ability of this car is so much broader than my own that I think its going to take some time to become accomplished in the car and even get to 80% of the cars abilities. In the 993, with relatively little prior track experience its possible to push the car to 85% of its capability. But the GT3 provides the driver a lot of bandwidth to play and I think you can learn in relative safety about the boundaries of the car without taking massive liberties. One thing must be remembered and that is that its traveling faster than say a 993 or 996 at all times. I bought a Neksgen device and had it fitted to my full faced helmet for Taupo as the GT3 has 6 point harness from the factory. I think it’s a wise investment!

Traffic is always to be expected in the GT3 especially when you start mid field each session such as I did. This was a good way to feel more comfortable however with other vehicles around me even if the “Time Exposed to Danger” is relatively brief in the GT3!

Best lap at Manfield was well off the pace I suspect. 1.18.18 with 65% of all my laps for the day falling between that and 1.21. Last year’s best lap in the 993 was 1.20.19 with laps improving every session. I think having Ray on board for two sessions that day made a huge difference, it was warmer and drier too with more heat in the track. That being said the 993 is subtly I improved over last year so I should have thought in identical conditions was capable of a mid 1.19 this year which puts the GT3 time into perspective. The GT3 really should have been in early 1.16s. That might have to wait for another day!

We quit pretty early at Manfield and headed off to dinner and rugby that evening, getting up early for a blast back to Taupo on some great lightly trafficked roads, Neil, myself and Richard – three GT3s in convoy…

Jo & I spent another few days travelling in both cars and visiting some friends in Bay of Plenty. Got to take a couple of lads out for a very quick back road blast in the GT3 which had everyone’s adrenaline spiked and got to take a ride in a F360 which despite its age has some teeth. Back to back the new GT3 was a revelation against the older 360. Sure the GT3 is a fair bit quicker, stops better and the shifts are much faster (10+ years between them!) but the GT3 is now more like a mid engine Fezza than any other 911 in the company’s history. It feels a little more mid engine on the road and for the first time even the Ferrari owner had to admit that the sound inside the GT3 (windows up) as we were blasting down rural roads full chat was a level or two up from the old flat plane crank V8! That takes some doing and I never thought it would be the case. However, I came away with some respect for the 360. The shifts are a bit more clunky (and the full auto is unbearable) but I thought that was part of its charm and it went quick enough for an old girl.

So the NITT was a success and will become an annual social track day in the calendar!

The final consideration is which of Macca’s cars becomes the track hack?

The 993 is the car I will own longer and Id really like to set some PB times in that…but….it becomes a simple matter of head over heart.

The GT3 is insured for full NZ replacement (first 2 years from new) and owes me significantly less than it is thus insured for.

To add to that the there is a 3 years full factory warranty which for the first time on any Porsche production car includes track use.

Finally in the case of a total loss the GT3 is replaceable (new gen 2 model or simply a fat cheque to spend elsewhere). The 993 on the other hand is insured for a fair bit less than it cost me or would cost to replace and it is in effect almost irreplaceable.

My “inner accountant” says the GT3 is far less fiscal risk if it all goes wrong. Its depreciation proof for the next few years whilst being insured for replacement and covered by factory warranty on road and track.

Here in part is the answer to Grame and Johns question about the cost of running a GT3 as a track car….

That leaves consumables. Its true the Michelin Cup 2s are not a sticky as Z221s etc but they by all accounts (from other and my own experience to date with 6500km on the car) give around 6 full track days and 3-5000 road km before they expire – so they wear better than the Z221 when you consider they are working at much higher loads on the track and give better grip and comfort on damp roads. The price delta for the Z221 on the 993 and the MPSC2 on the GT3 (20”!) is “only” $800-900 NZD a set if MPSC2 ordered from tirerack. For Pads Mike has ordered me a set of MX72 for the GT3 will be ready at Xmas (will fit when factory pads have wilted) and they were $220 incl GTR more than for 993. Pad wear is greater/faster on the GT3 than the 993 by around 20-25% from my estimates and due to loads and additional weight. So as you can see the running costs are marginal especially given the GT3 is new and covered by warranty for anything else that should fail within 100K km and 3 years.

The big question mark is discs. I think this is the only significant cost multiplier as the GT3 discs are Big and expensive and potentially from what I hear may not last many more track days than a set of MPSC2 tyres if they are pushed hard! Not sure on cost but too expensive to freight so Id expect over 4K NZD a set from CCS! By Comparison the 993 Big Red disks are probably $3K a set at CCS…

So the white car is the head choice. It’s also quicker, safer, has a wider breadth of ability and room for driver error and I can’t deny the speed, sound (and overtaking ability for traffic) is bloody addictive.

But I love my 993 too and if there is one sadness to these fortunate first world problems it is simply that increasingly it will become less feasible to risk on the track. I have committed to using it for the May Targa Tour but after that it may undergo its 4th transformation to become something that better fits my time of life and intended usage for it…

One thing the GT3 has taught me. It doesn’t make any sense to try and push the road Relics too far. The new gear is quicker, more reliable and more fit for purpose. For those that are passionate about being personally competitive in a 964 or 993 - big pockets are a requirement and the risk of loosing a treasured possession….

Ill leave you with a short youtube of some random Manfield laps in the GT3. I tried to choose some that featured plenty of the group. Stand out drives on the day IMO were Chris Mendes (consident and sharp times in the 991 3.8 C4S), Steve punting his new blue RSR replica (was cracking under 1.20 consistently) and Graemes newly rebuilt Frazer rocket which Im sure runs Nitros as its gained a lot of speed on the straights since the SITT and mut have been putting in a 1.17 or 1.18 on the day!

P.S. in the video that’s Chris B driving Neil’s GT3 who kindly lets me pass!

P.P.S its bumpier on that track than it seems – the Sony has image stabilisation makes it look magic carpet smooth!

P.P.P.S at the end of the video you can see me catch up with Steve's car then come off the gas at around 150m and you can see what I mean with the box auto shifting down – no brakes needed – slows the car down too much – this is where manual mode will be much better…

O2GO

Thanks for sharing Macca. I was impressed also with the speed of Steve pedalling his 25 year old 964 :-P That GT3 sound sure is addictive