Mishaps, I still don't get it.
06-06-2013, 11:12 PM
#211
Rennlist Member
Oh, wait listed, didn't realize that. Hope it works!
06-06-2013, 11:53 PM
#212
Rennlist Member
Someone in a post on the "petition' thread mentioned that the busstop pass which got done without contact would have been a good pass in a pro race like grand am, or wc. my opinion: thats a crap pass under any circumstance , any race series.
...pro drivers probably give other pro drivers more respect than gent pca guys becaues they have to live together and make a career in the same paddock all seaosn, every single week.
plus if they wreck the car, take themselves out of points, the sponsors get pissed, the car owners get pissed.
...pro drivers probably give other pro drivers more respect than gent pca guys becaues they have to live together and make a career in the same paddock all seaosn, every single week.
plus if they wreck the car, take themselves out of points, the sponsors get pissed, the car owners get pissed.
the other thing, without going on too much, to consider is the impact of the no-blocking rule and whether thats causing more dive bombs. if blocking were permitted, or if a "single move" were permitted, i would come to to the right coming out of the S's, and there would have been no shot of dive bombing me. he would have had to pass me on the left, or gotten in line.
i think being forced to leave the doro kind of open exposes you as the lead car to getting hammered.
same thing happened with the fabcar at lrp, happened here.
i think being forced to leave the doro kind of open exposes you as the lead car to getting hammered.
same thing happened with the fabcar at lrp, happened here.
i just dont like the no-blocking, no-defending rule. it asks for trouble.
06-07-2013, 08:10 AM
#213
The Steward said that based on the rear car's video, speaking to the other driver, and from the way it was reported, he thought that I could have given him room however his pass was ill advised. He didn't ask to see my video nor did he seem interested in seeing it. I think that he had already made up in his mind that it was a rubout and we should both be happy. I told the Steward that in IMHO the other driver tried a really risky move earlier in the race but he added that it would have no bearing on the incident itself. Since he did rule it a "rub out" pretty much on the spot I really didn't want to argue or push it. But of course after you settle down and have time to review your own video it becomes clear as to what happened. Like I said in my earlier post the other driver came over like a gentleman and apologized. Luckily the damage was actually minimal ( pop out a couple of donuts and hopefully buff out some panels and replace graphics )
Let's look at the "facts" in the above post: The rear car CHOOSE to make an "ill advised" pass. Contact was made that requires the front car to "pop out a couple of donuts" and it's ruled a "rub out" (whatever that means). And the result is the rear driver didn't get any real punishment.... so what did he learn from this?
06-07-2013, 08:20 AM
#214
NASA Racer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
06-07-2013, 08:35 AM
#215
Rennlist Member
Someone in a post on the "petition' thread mentioned that the busstop pass which got done without contact would have been a good pass in a pro race like grand am, or wc. my opinion: thats a crap pass under any circumstance , any race series. i dont think spencer p, bill auberlen, eric curran etc. would take any great pride in a dive bomb maneuver which put the car within a nick of a total wreck, took the car off track off the curbs, put a hammering on the suspension, unless it was maybe the last 2,3 turns of the last 1,2 laps of a race. They would have gotten alongside on entry (maybe) and would have just held the overtaken car to the outside nice and calm, nice and relaxed.
06-07-2013, 08:52 AM
#216
not sure about this dude. at lime rock this year, and maybe njmp lsat year? they were black flagging dudes for not staying on the racing line, but what they called blocking. i cant speak exactly to it, but maybe Brian_H could chime in on this. i thought it was not permitted, and discussed at those drivers meetings.
one move would be great. i think it might stymie guys who are really of the same speed but think a dive bomb will get them a worthless position in exposing their car and the overtaken car to impact.
one move would be great. i think it might stymie guys who are really of the same speed but think a dive bomb will get them a worthless position in exposing their car and the overtaken car to impact.
Again this is very simple.
Get your pass done and don't hit things. I wrote on this long long ago and will find link to add to this thread.
06-07-2013, 08:55 AM
#217
NASA Racer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
It's actually not that simple if you look at how things are actually enforced.
got some time to waste? Read these threads:
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...-blocking.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...k-flagged.html
got some time to waste? Read these threads:
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...-blocking.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...k-flagged.html
06-07-2013, 08:56 AM
#218
Rennlist Member
One move is allowed, non reactive, the non ideal or non race or awkward line is by its very nature not ideal. It can be used for 1,2 corners at best and again must be non reactive. So for example in the much discussed incident, had the car that was hit exited the s's and then tracked right down the straight entering the bus stop from right or mid right then he would have prevented sparky the wonder pup from diving. Again as the lead car you get one move, must be non reactive and lead car can enter the corner from wherever they choose as long as they are the lead car. If a leading car compromises their turn in, then the apex and track out are also compromised. So if you are a following car, then manage your gap, idealize your turn in, apex, track out and pass them with the resultant better exit in the next section that allows it...
06-07-2013, 09:25 AM
#220
Perfect Angel
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
^This. Many others included the caveat about this move potentially being legal/acceptable in pro racing (bit not in club racing). I never understood why this action would be any less damaging, or more acceptable, in pro racing. If anything, the stakes (risks) there would only be HIGHER, which would provide even larger incentives to make it illegal and unacceptable.
I disagree. As others mentioned here. You should be allowed to pick a (defensive) line ONCE and BEFORE the car behind you makes the move to the same line. If you go "defensive" AFTER the car behind has made the move, that's blocking and should be illegal.
I haven't heard of a "no-defending" rule but blocking is pretty straightforward, easy to recognize, and should be illegal (as it is in Skip Barber race series). I know this because I got black-flagged for doing exactly that in my rookie year there. I thought I was doing what other cars in front of me had been doing to me so I could do it to others. The important difference was that you are only allowed to pick a defensive line BEFORE the car behind you makes the move there. If you do it AFTER (and in response to) their attack, that's blocking.
I disagree. As others mentioned here. You should be allowed to pick a (defensive) line ONCE and BEFORE the car behind you makes the move to the same line. If you go "defensive" AFTER the car behind has made the move, that's blocking and should be illegal.
I haven't heard of a "no-defending" rule but blocking is pretty straightforward, easy to recognize, and should be illegal (as it is in Skip Barber race series). I know this because I got black-flagged for doing exactly that in my rookie year there. I thought I was doing what other cars in front of me had been doing to me so I could do it to others. The important difference was that you are only allowed to pick a defensive line BEFORE the car behind you makes the move there. If you do it AFTER (and in response to) their attack, that's blocking.
06-07-2013, 09:35 AM
#221
NASA Racer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
06-07-2013, 09:40 AM
#223
Rennlist Member
06-07-2013, 09:43 AM
#224
And then of course after you all finish boxing in our volunteer stewards with excessive lengthy legal documents allowing for all the variables.... You will have to do the same for all the volunteer corner workers...
Still say its simple.
Still say its simple.
06-07-2013, 09:44 AM
#225
Rennlist Member
Interested to learn how the above simple blocking definition reconciles with the 100% overlap requirement for a pass. Are you allowed to rob momentum from (block) an inside car that has 1% overlap at turn-in? Or the simple definition of blocking applies only on certain sections of the track and not on others?