Mishaps, I still don't get it.
06-06-2013, 12:05 PM
#151
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Disagree.
In the first video, from 0:00 to 0:08 the rear car is behind. At 0:08 the lead car hits the turn in point (designated by extra wide paint on the left edge of the track). At the turn in point, the rear car is visible in the rear view mirror and appears to be behind.
The pass doesn't even start until the front car begins his turn-in.
The only way the pass was completed was by putting all 4 wheels over the first set of extended rubble strips. Then the left wheels in the dirt of the 2nd rumble strip, then blowing the line through the 2nd half of the chicane.
As others noted, the only reason the cars didn't hit was because the lead car changed his line to avoid contact.
Awesome - No.
Responsible - No.
Acceptable in amateur club racing - No
Legal - I guess so.
In the first video, from 0:00 to 0:08 the rear car is behind. At 0:08 the lead car hits the turn in point (designated by extra wide paint on the left edge of the track). At the turn in point, the rear car is visible in the rear view mirror and appears to be behind.
The pass doesn't even start until the front car begins his turn-in.
The only way the pass was completed was by putting all 4 wheels over the first set of extended rubble strips. Then the left wheels in the dirt of the 2nd rumble strip, then blowing the line through the 2nd half of the chicane.
As others noted, the only reason the cars didn't hit was because the lead car changed his line to avoid contact.
Awesome - No.
Responsible - No.
Acceptable in amateur club racing - No
Legal - I guess so.
13 should have been given for the second "pass".
I don't want to hear,"we don't have all the facts". That's a 13.
06-06-2013, 12:07 PM
#152
Instructor
That said, if I was the passed driver and had gone through the first "adventure" with the same car at the same spot, I would have been much more defensive and not given the Cayman even an inch of an opening to tempt him into a dive. Only place he would be able to dive into would have been the back of my car.
He gets away with it once, kudos to him. He gets away with it twice, shame on me!
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Kevin
1991 944S2 (Stock E)
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Last edited by caymancyr; 06-06-2013 at 12:09 PM. Reason: typo
06-06-2013, 12:18 PM
#154
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FYI the blue car did not come from that far back. We are looking at this through a wide angle lens and an all-view mirror. A recipe for big depth issues.
If I was the blue car in back I would have 'shown' my pass. The dive straight to the apex from the normal line is what makes this look bad especially in the first one. Get over and fill that right side mirror. In PCA I would be more cautious because of the vague 'owns the corner' rule but in SCCA I would have taken a shot at both of those openings and would expect the guys I race against to do the same if I left the door that open.
If I was the blue car in back I would have 'shown' my pass. The dive straight to the apex from the normal line is what makes this look bad especially in the first one. Get over and fill that right side mirror. In PCA I would be more cautious because of the vague 'owns the corner' rule but in SCCA I would have taken a shot at both of those openings and would expect the guys I race against to do the same if I left the door that open.
06-06-2013, 12:30 PM
#155
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06-06-2013, 12:55 PM
#156
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FYI the blue car did not come from that far back. We are looking at this through a wide angle lens and an all-view mirror. A recipe for big depth issues.
If I was the blue car in back I would have 'shown' my pass. The dive straight to the apex from the normal line is what makes this look bad especially in the first one. Get over and fill that right side mirror. In PCA I would be more cautious because of the vague 'owns the corner' rule but in SCCA I would have taken a shot at both of those openings and would expect the guys I race against to do the same if I left the door that open.
If I was the blue car in back I would have 'shown' my pass. The dive straight to the apex from the normal line is what makes this look bad especially in the first one. Get over and fill that right side mirror. In PCA I would be more cautious because of the vague 'owns the corner' rule but in SCCA I would have taken a shot at both of those openings and would expect the guys I race against to do the same if I left the door that open.
This is PCA 13/13 racing, if we so much as touch mirrors our race is technically over and we must report to black flag.
So it is a gamble to even move over and defend your position once you anticipate a dive bomb is going to happen.
What you end up with are guys driving down the right side of the track, so that a inside pass is not an option. That's no good either.
This is not NASA,SCCA,Grand AM,or any other sanctioning body. It's PCA 13/13 racing.
To me that means contact is not tolerated. Co-existing takes top priority in passing situations.
I guess contact was tolerated at the Glen, I don't understand why 13's were not given for some of these incidents. I think it is sending mixed messages when you do that.
06-06-2013, 01:00 PM
#157
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Forget filling the mirrors, the passing car needs to be visible in direct, if not peripheral, vision. I'm not looking in my mirror as I aim for apex, it's over by then.
I was taught how to pass in open wheelers, and believe me, there is no room for any of this crap in that arena.
I was taught how to pass in open wheelers, and believe me, there is no room for any of this crap in that arena.
06-06-2013, 01:27 PM
#159
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06-06-2013, 01:32 PM
#160
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Forget filling the mirrors, the passing car needs to be visible in direct, if not peripheral, vision. I'm not looking in my mirror as I aim for apex, it's over by then.
I was taught how to pass in open wheelers, and believe me, there is no room for any of this crap in that arena.
I was taught how to pass in open wheelers, and believe me, there is no room for any of this crap in that arena.
If you can't see them in your mirrors, they are inside of you and you leave room. I can't count the number of times I've been side by side with someone for 3-4 straight turns where one of us couldn't see the other directly at a number of points. I know they are there because I can't see them anywhere else. And that last bit is why a few pages back or a different thread, ProCoach said the scariest thing is when someone says "i didn't know you were there" That's a lack of awareness and something you should have by the time you are club racing.
06-06-2013, 01:33 PM
#161
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If you can't see them in your mirrors, they are inside of you and you leave room. I can't count the number of times I've been side by side with someone for 3-4 straight turns where one of us couldn't see the other directly at a number of points. I know they are there because I can't see them anywhere else. And that last bit is why a few pages back or a different thread, ProCoach said the scariest thing is when someone says "i didn't know you were there" That's a lack of awareness and something you should have by the time you are club racing.
06-06-2013, 01:51 PM
#164
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Disagree
I'm sorry...but the first pass was awesome. Isn't that the point of racing? To pass the driver ahead w/o contact or chopping? I saw neither.
Had he lost control over the pass & hit the inside Armco, oh well, his car is totaled. No one to blame but himself. But he didn't.
The second was a ****up for sure.
Had he lost control over the pass & hit the inside Armco, oh well, his car is totaled. No one to blame but himself. But he didn't.
The second was a ****up for sure.
