View Poll Results: DOTs vs Slicks (Good stickey sprint race slicks)
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Tire performance Poll - DOT R6, R888, RA1 V700 vs slicks
03-23-2009, 04:17 PM
#76
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03-23-2009, 04:27 PM
#77
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Thread Starter
I think traffic is probably one of the best things about road racing. nothing worse than an even battle when you are behind that just goes to the checker. toss in some lapped traffic variables and an entirely new skill set becomes valuable. Vision, timing , patience, strategy, tactics. ..... racing at its best.
Let me re-phrase Byran. say you are doing a time trail with TimeAttack. you get 3 laps. 1 warm up and 2 hot laps. If what you say is true, you would select hoosiers vs a slick to run this event? You said that a hoosier is better than a slick the first 2 laps.
mk
Let me re-phrase Byran. say you are doing a time trail with TimeAttack. you get 3 laps. 1 warm up and 2 hot laps. If what you say is true, you would select hoosiers vs a slick to run this event? You said that a hoosier is better than a slick the first 2 laps.
mk
03-23-2009, 04:45 PM
#78
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No I would use the slicks with some tire warmers!
03-23-2009, 04:49 PM
#79
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Correct answer.
And Mark, no, I probably wouldn't choose the R-comp. Not because it doesn't come up to speed quicker, but because the difference in setup and driving style is something I would want to be making multiple times a weekend.
And Mark, no, I probably wouldn't choose the R-comp. Not because it doesn't come up to speed quicker, but because the difference in setup and driving style is something I would want to be making multiple times a weekend.
03-23-2009, 04:55 PM
#80
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well yes, I would get the tire warmers. 
You missed the point. Slicks are either faster or slower the first 2 laps. you said they are slower than hoosiers. Now you are qualifying it by saying that the set up to allow the slicks to be better is not worth it? That really is not the question. I would assume that if you were racing on slicks and you saw them to be slower than hoosiers that you would have had the car set up properly.
dont backpedal. Is a slick on a car set up for it , better or worse on the first 2 laps of a race?
You said this, not me. you also said that the differece between Hoosiers and slicks is less than toyos and hoosiers. I tend to lean toward the slicks to be much better than hoosiers with the toyos being closer to the hoosier, than the Hoosier to the slick. but that is an opinion. slicks>>hoosiers>toyos
You missed the point. Slicks are either faster or slower the first 2 laps. you said they are slower than hoosiers. Now you are qualifying it by saying that the set up to allow the slicks to be better is not worth it? That really is not the question. I would assume that if you were racing on slicks and you saw them to be slower than hoosiers that you would have had the car set up properly.
dont backpedal. Is a slick on a car set up for it , better or worse on the first 2 laps of a race?
You said this, not me. you also said that the differece between Hoosiers and slicks is less than toyos and hoosiers. I tend to lean toward the slicks to be much better than hoosiers with the toyos being closer to the hoosier, than the Hoosier to the slick. but that is an opinion. slicks>>hoosiers>toyos
03-23-2009, 05:17 PM
#81
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Unfortunately, it's not that far from the truth. We sometimes see 30 second gaps between the fast laps of the fastest and slowest cars at VIR. The gap is even larger at the start where the front running cars aren't in traffic and are much better on cold tires than the slowest cars/drivers. And when we are rolling 80 cars to the start, there's already a significant gap between the first place car and the last place car before the green flag ever flies.
03-23-2009, 05:23 PM
#82
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you also said that the differece between Hoosiers and slicks is less than toyos and hoosiers. I tend to lean toward the slicks to be much better than hoosiers with the toyos being closer to the hoosier, than the Hoosier to the slick. but that is an opinion. slicks>>hoosiers>toyos
An opinion from someone who brags about running take-off Toyos, has only run Hoosier R3's many years ago, and has never run slicks. Brilliant.
Anyone want to raise their hand if they've run slicks, Hoosier R compound and Hoosier A compound tires on their car in the same weekend?
Am I saying that slicks aren't a better tire for winning a race? Well no...we run slicks precisely because they are a better tire. Do I buy into the idea that I always hear around the paddock that "he's 3 seconds faster than me because he's on slicks and I'm on R-comps...if I were running slicks, I'd be faster than he is"? Not even for a second.
03-23-2009, 06:37 PM
#83
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....... I'm actually rather tired of trying to explain myself to you, only to watch you attempt to reposition or change the question to try to trap me in what I've said when I obviously have far more experience with different tires than you do from which to base my opinion on, so I'm going to go get some work done................................
03-23-2009, 06:43 PM
#84
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I'm not backing out of anything...I was answering your freakin' question of whether I would use R-comps to qualify. I don't know which question to answer because you keep rephrasing and reasking in some sort of quest to prove to yourself that you are right. Believe it or not, my goal in life isn't to justify my opinion to you. I'm actually rather tired of trying to explain myself to you, only to watch you attempt to reposition or change the question to try to trap me in what I've said when I obviously have far more experience with different tires than you do from which to base my opinion on, so I'm going to go get some work done.
Mark, your comments on this thread have demonstrated an extreme lack of understanding as to what it takes to optimize/setup a car for different tires and a lack of experience from which you can draw your opinions about tire differences. You, yourself, claim that your car is on original rubber bushings, so forgive me if I place a serious lack of trust in any opinion you have that requires precision and consistency for proper testing and results. You don't seem to do any setup or testing work on your car or run any data acquisition, and yet you continue to argue as if you have all of the answers in this thread and others.
An opinion from someone who brags about running take-off Toyos, has only run Hoosier R3's many years ago, and has never run slicks. Brilliant.
Anyone want to raise their hand if they've run slicks, Hoosier R compound and Hoosier A compound tires on their car in the same weekend?
Am I saying that slicks aren't a better tire for winning a race? Well no...we run slicks precisely because they are a better tire. Do I buy into the idea that I always hear around the paddock that "he's 3 seconds faster than me because he's on slicks and I'm on R-comps...if I were running slicks, I'd be faster than he is"? Not even for a second.
Mark, your comments on this thread have demonstrated an extreme lack of understanding as to what it takes to optimize/setup a car for different tires and a lack of experience from which you can draw your opinions about tire differences. You, yourself, claim that your car is on original rubber bushings, so forgive me if I place a serious lack of trust in any opinion you have that requires precision and consistency for proper testing and results. You don't seem to do any setup or testing work on your car or run any data acquisition, and yet you continue to argue as if you have all of the answers in this thread and others.
An opinion from someone who brags about running take-off Toyos, has only run Hoosier R3's many years ago, and has never run slicks. Brilliant.
Anyone want to raise their hand if they've run slicks, Hoosier R compound and Hoosier A compound tires on their car in the same weekend?
Am I saying that slicks aren't a better tire for winning a race? Well no...we run slicks precisely because they are a better tire. Do I buy into the idea that I always hear around the paddock that "he's 3 seconds faster than me because he's on slicks and I'm on R-comps...if I were running slicks, I'd be faster than he is"? Not even for a second.
03-23-2009, 08:41 PM
#85
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Thread Starter
Brian, you made a statement, and I have qualified my opinion. the only thign I really know is the difference of of my competitors when on toyos vs hoosiers and a close racing buddy who did the slick vs toyo test. I dont think you will find anyone that has put all 3 on in a day, because that is what you need. My only point of all this was to see some opinions of who has tested slicks vs hooseirs to see what the difference really is. You know what, its one of those things that does depend, as you so eliquently point out.
You forgot to add that i ran a 1:38.8 with those old bushings , tires, no alignment in 7 years, in my 20 year old 928., at Laguna!
mk
You forgot to add that i ran a 1:38.8 with those old bushings , tires, no alignment in 7 years, in my 20 year old 928., at Laguna!
mk
03-24-2009, 03:32 AM
#86
Rennlist Member
Stickiness and Wear
I have run, Kumho VictoRacers, Hoosiers, Hankook Z 214 and RA-1 tires.
The Hoosiers were the fastest...they seemed to peak at about 9 heat cycles. The RA-1 tires seemed to be about 1.5 to 2 seconds a lap slower (They are a 100 on the hardness scale, Hoosier is at 40) BUT, I have gotten up to 24 heat cycles out of thew RA-1 tires, and they were very good at the end...right down to the cord.
R 888, have not used them...come at 6/32 tread depth so technically you don't have to shave them for the track. The RA-1 comes with 8/32 of tread depth. I shave them to 4/32. They are spot on from day 1.
I heat cycle them once, let them sit for 24 hours then run them..the Hankooks Z 214...went through 2 sets, the first lasted 20 heat cycles, the second died at 9. It could have been how I drove them, the weather, the length of the race.....
I am sticking with the RA-1s until such time as they are no longer available...then Nittos, supposedly the same RA-1 compound, and a bit cheaper I am told.
The Hoosiers were the fastest...they seemed to peak at about 9 heat cycles. The RA-1 tires seemed to be about 1.5 to 2 seconds a lap slower (They are a 100 on the hardness scale, Hoosier is at 40) BUT, I have gotten up to 24 heat cycles out of thew RA-1 tires, and they were very good at the end...right down to the cord.
R 888, have not used them...come at 6/32 tread depth so technically you don't have to shave them for the track. The RA-1 comes with 8/32 of tread depth. I shave them to 4/32. They are spot on from day 1.
I heat cycle them once, let them sit for 24 hours then run them..the Hankooks Z 214...went through 2 sets, the first lasted 20 heat cycles, the second died at 9. It could have been how I drove them, the weather, the length of the race.....
I am sticking with the RA-1s until such time as they are no longer available...then Nittos, supposedly the same RA-1 compound, and a bit cheaper I am told.
03-24-2009, 09:22 AM
#87
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Remember that the hardness numbers on tires are only relative to OTHER TIRES FROM THE SAME MANUFACTURER. They are not comparable with numbers from other manufacturers.
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03-24-2009, 09:54 AM
#88
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03-24-2009, 10:20 AM
#90
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Yup, as I said, the Dunlops I tried (not sure which compound it was) were incredible.
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