View Poll Results: DOTs vs Slicks (Good stickey sprint race slicks)
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll
Tire performance Poll - DOT R6, R888, RA1 V700 vs slicks
08-12-2009, 02:22 AM
#166
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I have to agree that it sure seems like the V710s are very sticky. Like i mentioned, we raced with the vipers on them and they stuck like glue. I have no doubts that they could be close to the R6 or A6s.
yes, 1:37ish is flying in a car that heavy. put it this way, had that "street" car run world challenge in 1999, it might have won against names like Bobby Archer in his viper, Bill cooper in his vet, Biscup, 993cup, etc and all full blown race cars. in the following year, the first time the cup car raced in WCGT, he would have been a top placer with a high 1:36.
. of course the track is about 1 second faster now, but still
Mk
Laguna is a tough track, but those that visit it often get in a pretty tight groove. (like any track) I would probably rather see a comparsion with 171 at T-hill than 2 different days at laguna. 1 -2 second is easy to give up just by not finding the limit. it surely seemed that he wasnt pushing it hard enough or as hard as the kumos. Lots of variables for sure. 2 seconds is a HUGE difference. Like I mentioned, I really tried hard to go faster with the hoosiers vs the Toyos and didnt see much more than .5 second. for me, the difference was the hoosier was much more firm in its grip, but i still had a little push, which might have scrubed more of the speed I was entering the turns in. dont know, as that is what DATA AQ. is for. Im making a suspension adjustment that might help loosen up the car a bit and allow me to take more advantage of the additional grip of the hoosiers. Also, going back to laguna with another newish set in late sept. If I look at my comparison videos at thunderhill, it seems like there is a sharper turn in, but the steering input is not so drastic and there seems to be less push, as well as less loosness. The other aspect, is that a loose car can be fast. knowing how to slide the toyos can be surprisingly fast.
yes, 1:37ish is flying in a car that heavy. put it this way, had that "street" car run world challenge in 1999, it might have won against names like Bobby Archer in his viper, Bill cooper in his vet, Biscup, 993cup, etc and all full blown race cars. in the following year, the first time the cup car raced in WCGT, he would have been a top placer with a high 1:36.
. of course the track is about 1 second faster now, but still Mk
A buddy of mine just drove the V710's on a Corvette this weekend with NASA and was ranting and raving about those tires as well. They are widely used in SCCA and considered the best value for competition outlasting the A6 in heat cycles, but faster than the R6. I have heard from some vette guys that they fall off after a few laps and then come back slowly. But they take lots of heat cycles and aren't as heat sensitive as the Hoosiers are.
They are hot in the Auto-x scene as well carrying lots of national champions to victory. I think it's mainly A6 and V710's on most podiums. This also goes for runoffs too, though more A6's there (I think).
Win win if they fit your car and you are on a budget and want to be competitive.
BTW if I'm not mistaken, 1:36 in a 996 GT3 at Leguna is FLYING!!!!! Great driving!
They are hot in the Auto-x scene as well carrying lots of national champions to victory. I think it's mainly A6 and V710's on most podiums. This also goes for runoffs too, though more A6's there (I think).
Win win if they fit your car and you are on a budget and want to be competitive.
BTW if I'm not mistaken, 1:36 in a 996 GT3 at Leguna is FLYING!!!!! Great driving!
Laguna is a tough track, but those that visit it often get in a pretty tight groove. (like any track) I would probably rather see a comparsion with 171 at T-hill than 2 different days at laguna. 1 -2 second is easy to give up just by not finding the limit. it surely seemed that he wasnt pushing it hard enough or as hard as the kumos. Lots of variables for sure. 2 seconds is a HUGE difference. Like I mentioned, I really tried hard to go faster with the hoosiers vs the Toyos and didnt see much more than .5 second. for me, the difference was the hoosier was much more firm in its grip, but i still had a little push, which might have scrubed more of the speed I was entering the turns in. dont know, as that is what DATA AQ. is for. Im making a suspension adjustment that might help loosen up the car a bit and allow me to take more advantage of the additional grip of the hoosiers. Also, going back to laguna with another newish set in late sept. If I look at my comparison videos at thunderhill, it seems like there is a sharper turn in, but the steering input is not so drastic and there seems to be less push, as well as less loosness. The other aspect, is that a loose car can be fast. knowing how to slide the toyos can be surprisingly fast.
Mark is right though 171 mph, the MPSC were neck and neck with the V710's until the corkscrew. Only slightly behind. 1.5 second made from corkscrew to finish.
The MPSC are no joke, I really love that tire, hate that Michelin is doing away with the 18 sizes for 19's though, highly ignorant of them.
The MPSC are no joke, I really love that tire, hate that Michelin is doing away with the 18 sizes for 19's though, highly ignorant of them.
08-12-2009, 02:58 AM
#167
Herr Unmöglich
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Interesting data... I've only run RA1's and 888's to date but I am a couple seconds behind similar cars running R6's. I don't doubt some is driver however you always wonder what the tire is worth.
The V710 is available in 944 size and is smack in between the 888 and the R6 price-wise. And then Toyo went and resumed the RA1 for next year so there are even more options. So far I have chosen cheap durable tires over the more expensive sticky stuff... but since I can legally run them, to not do so is leaving time on the table.
Hard to decide what to run next year...
The V710 is available in 944 size and is smack in between the 888 and the R6 price-wise. And then Toyo went and resumed the RA1 for next year so there are even more options. So far I have chosen cheap durable tires over the more expensive sticky stuff... but since I can legally run them, to not do so is leaving time on the table.
Hard to decide what to run next year...
08-12-2009, 01:19 PM
#169
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Run these two laps together for side by side comparison. This was Laguna on toyos a race a few months earlier. times were near idential for both weekends in the two differnent months. qual and race times.
Im starting to thnk that the nasty push my car has, might negate some of the advantages of the stickier tires. my theory, is you enter turns at a faster speed, after later braking but the push slows the car down through the turn, so that the exit speed is near the same. down the main straight at laguna and thunderhill, i had to push hard to hit my same top speed before the braking zones. (both tire compounds).
RESULTS FROM LATEST TEST at Thunderhill. (same day, toyo vs hoosier)
Side by side test at T-hill was 2:00.1 vs 2:00.0 vs 2:00.1. (pract, qual and race for toyo-hoosier-hoosier).
tire temps were the same for hoosiers and the toyos. finally got some hot pit temps. even spread across the tires. used the toyos and went out like qualifying and got a hot lap in. qualifyied with the hoosiers, and got a good lap in. Raced with the hoosiers and was able to try two different lines and saw no difference in lap times. again, all the best laps were within a tenth or two. air and track temps were hot all weekend. 95degree plus. the hottest was qual at 103F. I have side view video from qual and incar from the race but not practice. video camera failure
. best times before, were .2 second faster, on the toyos on a cooler weekend. (and the toyos were pretty new then) . as a side note, but important note, the toyos felt a little looser, but also had a push as usual. however, the tire size up front was different, 275 toyo vs the 315 with the hoosier. However, the prior race weekend used the larger sized toyos up front with the .2 second faster time. I would think that the hoosier on that weekend would have been marginally faster, as it was at laguna.
Here are the videos of the toyos and the Hoosiers weekends. (april on my normal Toyo, almost new from WCGT, this last june race on Hoosiers)
Hoosiers - race 2 last laguna: (1:37.8) start video at 4:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYbFe...e=channel_page
Toyos -race at the prior April Laguna '09 (1:38.3) start video at 2:06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-FzG...eature=channel
Im starting to thnk that the nasty push my car has, might negate some of the advantages of the stickier tires. my theory, is you enter turns at a faster speed, after later braking but the push slows the car down through the turn, so that the exit speed is near the same. down the main straight at laguna and thunderhill, i had to push hard to hit my same top speed before the braking zones. (both tire compounds).
RESULTS FROM LATEST TEST at Thunderhill. (same day, toyo vs hoosier)
Side by side test at T-hill was 2:00.1 vs 2:00.0 vs 2:00.1. (pract, qual and race for toyo-hoosier-hoosier).
tire temps were the same for hoosiers and the toyos. finally got some hot pit temps. even spread across the tires. used the toyos and went out like qualifying and got a hot lap in. qualifyied with the hoosiers, and got a good lap in. Raced with the hoosiers and was able to try two different lines and saw no difference in lap times. again, all the best laps were within a tenth or two. air and track temps were hot all weekend. 95degree plus. the hottest was qual at 103F. I have side view video from qual and incar from the race but not practice. video camera failure
. best times before, were .2 second faster, on the toyos on a cooler weekend. (and the toyos were pretty new then) . as a side note, but important note, the toyos felt a little looser, but also had a push as usual. however, the tire size up front was different, 275 toyo vs the 315 with the hoosier. However, the prior race weekend used the larger sized toyos up front with the .2 second faster time. I would think that the hoosier on that weekend would have been marginally faster, as it was at laguna.Here are the videos of the toyos and the Hoosiers weekends. (april on my normal Toyo, almost new from WCGT, this last june race on Hoosiers)
Hoosiers - race 2 last laguna: (1:37.8) start video at 4:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYbFe...e=channel_page
Toyos -race at the prior April Laguna '09 (1:38.3) start video at 2:06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-FzG...eature=channel
Hi Mark - i used Kumho V710s for first time at Laguna Sunday/Monday. These are at LEAST 1 second faster than any other tire I've tried (MPSC, RA1, Nittos, R888s).
My time on V710 was 1:36.8. My time on MPSC was 1:38.6. Yes they were on separate days but still that is a massive difference. I think they are more for autocross they heat up very quickly.
kumho video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb-Od3dBZQc
MPSC video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGMxDlmzrm0
My time on V710 was 1:36.8. My time on MPSC was 1:38.6. Yes they were on separate days but still that is a massive difference. I think they are more for autocross they heat up very quickly.
kumho video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb-Od3dBZQc
MPSC video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGMxDlmzrm0
Last edited by mark kibort; 08-12-2009 at 01:58 PM.
08-12-2009, 06:29 PM
#170
Rennlist Member
08-12-2009, 06:41 PM
#171
Drifting
Toyo Tires® Renews Longtime Sponsorship with NASA
August 11, 2009 7:48 AM — The National Auto Sport Association announces it is renewing its longtime partnership with Toyo Tires; extending its contract for an additional three years beginning January 1, 2010. As a part of this extension, all NASA spec tire classes will be going back to the Toyo Proxes RA1 as the required tire. This will become effective January 1, 2010 with a three-weekend grace period to allow the use of the previously allowed R888 tires. “This move was made in response to customer input, and we hope the racers will be pleased by this announcement. The RA1 has become a favorite amongst many NASA racers and has proven itself for speed, consistency, and longevity,“ said NASA’s National Chairman Ryan Flaherty.
NASA Competition Racing has a wide variety of road racing classes designed to welcome both entry level and seasoned racers who wish to compete wheel to wheel. Toyo Tires’ Proxes® RA1™ is an R-compound, street legal competition radial and is the spec tire for several classes in this exciting program.
“NASA and Toyo Tires have enjoyed a successful relationship for 14 years and we look forward to adding another three years to that run,” said Jerry Kunzman NASA's Executive Director. “In our opinion Toyo has always had the best interest of their customers in mind so it's great to see the relationship continue in this manner.”
“Toyo Tires is proud to continue our sponsorship of NASA road racing,” said Stan Chen, manager of events and motorsports, Toyo Tire U.S.A. Corp. “Our Proxes RA1 has long been popular with amateur and professional racers and is a great fit with this exciting series.”
Great for vehicles ranging from sport compacts to European and American muscle machines, the Proxes RA1 is cost-effective by delivering excellent wear and winning consistency on the track. NASA classes using the Proxes RA1 include: American Iron, Camaro-Mustang Challenge, Factory Five Challenge, Honda Challenge, Spec 3/Spec e30 (BMW), Spec Focus, Spec Miata, and 944-spec.
To learn more about the many driving opportunities provided by NASA, whether racing or high-performance training, log on to nasaproracing.com. To learn more about the full line of Proxes tires from Toyo Tires, log on to toyotires.com. Toyo Tires manufactures and distributes a complete line of replacement tires for high performance cars, luxury vehicles, light trucks and SUVs as well as tires for commercial trucks, buses and off-road and construction applications.
August 11, 2009 7:48 AM — The National Auto Sport Association announces it is renewing its longtime partnership with Toyo Tires; extending its contract for an additional three years beginning January 1, 2010. As a part of this extension, all NASA spec tire classes will be going back to the Toyo Proxes RA1 as the required tire. This will become effective January 1, 2010 with a three-weekend grace period to allow the use of the previously allowed R888 tires. “This move was made in response to customer input, and we hope the racers will be pleased by this announcement. The RA1 has become a favorite amongst many NASA racers and has proven itself for speed, consistency, and longevity,“ said NASA’s National Chairman Ryan Flaherty.
NASA Competition Racing has a wide variety of road racing classes designed to welcome both entry level and seasoned racers who wish to compete wheel to wheel. Toyo Tires’ Proxes® RA1™ is an R-compound, street legal competition radial and is the spec tire for several classes in this exciting program.
“NASA and Toyo Tires have enjoyed a successful relationship for 14 years and we look forward to adding another three years to that run,” said Jerry Kunzman NASA's Executive Director. “In our opinion Toyo has always had the best interest of their customers in mind so it's great to see the relationship continue in this manner.”
“Toyo Tires is proud to continue our sponsorship of NASA road racing,” said Stan Chen, manager of events and motorsports, Toyo Tire U.S.A. Corp. “Our Proxes RA1 has long been popular with amateur and professional racers and is a great fit with this exciting series.”
Great for vehicles ranging from sport compacts to European and American muscle machines, the Proxes RA1 is cost-effective by delivering excellent wear and winning consistency on the track. NASA classes using the Proxes RA1 include: American Iron, Camaro-Mustang Challenge, Factory Five Challenge, Honda Challenge, Spec 3/Spec e30 (BMW), Spec Focus, Spec Miata, and 944-spec.
To learn more about the many driving opportunities provided by NASA, whether racing or high-performance training, log on to nasaproracing.com. To learn more about the full line of Proxes tires from Toyo Tires, log on to toyotires.com. Toyo Tires manufactures and distributes a complete line of replacement tires for high performance cars, luxury vehicles, light trucks and SUVs as well as tires for commercial trucks, buses and off-road and construction applications.
08-12-2009, 09:48 PM
#172
Herr Unmöglich
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The spec 944 guys are dumping 888's and going RA1 only in 2010. 888's will be allowed the first few weekends only to use up supplies.
In ITS / 944 Cup we can run any DOT tire including either Toyo tire, Kumho, and Hoosier.
In ITS / 944 Cup we can run any DOT tire including either Toyo tire, Kumho, and Hoosier.
08-12-2009, 10:20 PM
#173
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats a tough one. If you take side by side video of both, you can see the differences. after watching it a few times, your style seems like it is different on the different day. whats also nice about the video, is that you can actually look at segment times to see if it is all in the braking or in the cornering.
you look like you were only .5 second difference on the first 6 turns. you lost a lot by your entry and exit out of the corkscrew on the MPSCs.
tought to tell. I trust your feeling too, and much of it could be how the car uses the tires. in mine, my set up could be limiting, due to the massive push.
great footage and great laps!
Mk
you look like you were only .5 second difference on the first 6 turns. you lost a lot by your entry and exit out of the corkscrew on the MPSCs.
tought to tell. I trust your feeling too, and much of it could be how the car uses the tires. in mine, my set up could be limiting, due to the massive push.
great footage and great laps!
Mk
So basically without fcking up the corkscrew the MPSC would have been good for just under 1:38 that day.
I still like the V710 much better - i just have more confidence in them and don't have to worry about whether they are warm enough yet etc etc.
