View Poll Results: DOTs vs Slicks (Good stickey sprint race slicks)
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Tire performance Poll - DOT R6, R888, RA1 V700 vs slicks
07-13-2009, 06:41 PM
#151
Still plays with cars.
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The A6 is an autocross tire. Heats fast but overheats after a few laps. Mark, on your car I'd expect the R6 to be a much better choice. The A6 for qualifying, maybe.
On my RS the R6 works best around 37F 38R hot. They are two seconds a lap faster than a Michelin Cup using the same setup i.e. 2.5 degrees negative camber.
Oh, and yes, messing with another guys sig is one of those things we don't do.
Regards,
On my RS the R6 works best around 37F 38R hot. They are two seconds a lap faster than a Michelin Cup using the same setup i.e. 2.5 degrees negative camber.
Oh, and yes, messing with another guys sig is one of those things we don't do.
Regards,
07-13-2009, 06:54 PM
#152
Rennlist Member
You would think so, but some are finding the A6 is faster from lap 1 and doesn't fall off below the R6. Granted, their life is a lot shorter, but you don't buy hoosiers for their wear ability.
07-13-2009, 07:34 PM
#153
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
another data point for my toyo 1:39 times in practice that day, was that I was very rushed in the morning, barely making it to grid for practice. (still a one man team and still drive to the track with all my gear and tires). I did something I never have done before. I forgot to check pressures as the fronts were just mounted by wheelworks. 50psi both fronts, 40psi in the rear. the car was pushy, a little more than normal and I was beating on them pretty hard through thick traffic. But, in the pits after the discovery testing tire pressure and temps, the temps were not that far off normal, and an even spread across the tire, as usual. I was expecting a real hot center. not the case. Interesting, eitherway, the practice laps didnt yeild anything close to a clean lap so the comparison wasnt really too useful, but my history there was I felt.
you say that you used both tires (toyos and hoosiers) in the same weekend but then you compare your hoosier times to lap times times at "previous times out at laguna" - comparing lap times from one day to the next can give you poor results...comparing lap times from one weekend to the next is pretty much useless
if you ran both tires at the same event, what lap times did you get from each tire at that event? (not comparing to a different weekend/event)
are these comparisons/lap times from the same day or at least the same event? if not, it's a pretty pointless comparison...
if you ran both tires at the same event, what lap times did you get from each tire at that event? (not comparing to a different weekend/event)
are these comparisons/lap times from the same day or at least the same event? if not, it's a pretty pointless comparison...
07-13-2009, 07:37 PM
#154
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Thread Starter
The new thing is running the A6s. we all thought what you are thinking too, but its not the case. not even close. during our races the griggs racing mustang is racing R6s and running the same lap times, even his best near the end. he is running top SpeedGT times as well. so there goes that theory. Then we all heard that the new hot ticket was all the fast guys at the runoffs are running A6s now. as was pointed out, the only downside is life expectancy, and they dont get that hard after heat cycles from what they tell me. they are still new so Ill do more tests at thunderhill in the 100f heat next weekend.
you are seeing 2 seconds vs the cups? arent the cups 2 seconds faster than the toyos??? thats 4 seconds!
mk
you are seeing 2 seconds vs the cups? arent the cups 2 seconds faster than the toyos??? thats 4 seconds!
mk
The A6 is an autocross tire. Heats fast but overheats after a few laps. Mark, on your car I'd expect the R6 to be a much better choice. The A6 for qualifying, maybe.
On my RS the R6 works best around 37F 38R hot. They are two seconds a lap faster than a Michelin Cup using the same setup i.e. 2.5 degrees negative camber.
Oh, and yes, messing with another guys sig is one of those things we don't do.
Regards,
On my RS the R6 works best around 37F 38R hot. They are two seconds a lap faster than a Michelin Cup using the same setup i.e. 2.5 degrees negative camber.
Oh, and yes, messing with another guys sig is one of those things we don't do.
Regards,
07-13-2009, 07:40 PM
#155
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
exactly what we are seeing and have heard . we all thought this guy was crazy when we saw him in our races last year. but, never a problem. every lap the same, right til the last lap and all blazing fast times. the fastest anyone has hit laguna with a DOT tire in a race. (besides a few rare speedGT qual times)
mk
mk
07-19-2009, 05:19 PM
#156
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Go tell that to VR who seems to take the opposite opinion. He thought I was drugs thinking that a bald Toyo with 25 heat cycles is any worse than a new one. I think you and I agree here Bryan.
Very different than my experience with ANY TIRE EVER.
On a similar vein, I keep hearing this BS about Toyo's being faster just before they cord than they are when knew. Go tell that to a World Challenge team or even a front running Spec Miata team and see their reaction.
On a similar vein, I keep hearing this BS about Toyo's being faster just before they cord than they are when knew. Go tell that to a World Challenge team or even a front running Spec Miata team and see their reaction.
07-19-2009, 05:33 PM
#157
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ok, Im off to the Races again this weekend. It not a packed field as usual, so I can really use the weekend for testing. (first time this has ever happened with entries. the economy has killed the 1 race weekends that are far away) Anyway, Ill be able to conduct a more controlled test of 4 heat cycled Hoosiers and Toyo RA1s that in my opinion, are still in race ready shape. (new new at 4 to 10 heat cycles)
Wear on both sets are near equal. both have same wear patterns, very even. wear bars still deep on the hoosiers and the 4 lines on the toyos, are clearly seen, just touching the first wear bar on main treads. (were WCGT shaved)
You guys tell me what type of information you want. Ill have front cam, side wheel "fender cam" and time sheets with plenty of open laps. to avoid adrenelin variances, Ill use one on qualiying, not just the race and the other in the race, and mark on the video, which are the laps that are "time trial" type laps. (Ill find a lap that will be my qualifying flyer, or the race lap when there is no traffic and the battle, if any are over and Ill try and do a flyer lap for time.)
What types of things do you suggest I check after each session to show the variances in performance of these two popular R compound tires?
Im leaving Friday and will have practice, qual on Sat with the race in the morning Sunday.
Any suggestions for the test are welcome.
MK
Wear on both sets are near equal. both have same wear patterns, very even. wear bars still deep on the hoosiers and the 4 lines on the toyos, are clearly seen, just touching the first wear bar on main treads. (were WCGT shaved)
You guys tell me what type of information you want. Ill have front cam, side wheel "fender cam" and time sheets with plenty of open laps. to avoid adrenelin variances, Ill use one on qualiying, not just the race and the other in the race, and mark on the video, which are the laps that are "time trial" type laps. (Ill find a lap that will be my qualifying flyer, or the race lap when there is no traffic and the battle, if any are over and Ill try and do a flyer lap for time.)
What types of things do you suggest I check after each session to show the variances in performance of these two popular R compound tires?
Im leaving Friday and will have practice, qual on Sat with the race in the morning Sunday.
Any suggestions for the test are welcome.
MK
07-19-2009, 08:44 PM
#158
Race Director
Ok, Im off to the Races again this weekend. It not a packed field as usual, so I can really use the weekend for testing. (first time this has ever happened with entries. the economy has killed the 1 race weekends that are far away) Anyway, Ill be able to conduct a more controlled test of 4 heat cycled Hoosiers and Toyo RA1s that in my opinion, are still in race ready shape. (new new at 4 to 10 heat cycles)
Wear on both sets are near equal. both have same wear patterns, very even. wear bars still deep on the hoosiers and the 4 lines on the toyos, are clearly seen, just touching the first wear bar on main treads. (were WCGT shaved)
You guys tell me what type of information you want. Ill have front cam, side wheel "fender cam" and time sheets with plenty of open laps. to avoid adrenelin variances, Ill use one on qualiying, not just the race and the other in the race, and mark on the video, which are the laps that are "time trial" type laps. (Ill find a lap that will be my qualifying flyer, or the race lap when there is no traffic and the battle, if any are over and Ill try and do a flyer lap for time.)
What types of things do you suggest I check after each session to show the variances in performance of these two popular R compound tires?
Im leaving Friday and will have practice, qual on Sat with the race in the morning Sunday.
Any suggestions for the test are welcome.
MK
Wear on both sets are near equal. both have same wear patterns, very even. wear bars still deep on the hoosiers and the 4 lines on the toyos, are clearly seen, just touching the first wear bar on main treads. (were WCGT shaved)
You guys tell me what type of information you want. Ill have front cam, side wheel "fender cam" and time sheets with plenty of open laps. to avoid adrenelin variances, Ill use one on qualiying, not just the race and the other in the race, and mark on the video, which are the laps that are "time trial" type laps. (Ill find a lap that will be my qualifying flyer, or the race lap when there is no traffic and the battle, if any are over and Ill try and do a flyer lap for time.)
What types of things do you suggest I check after each session to show the variances in performance of these two popular R compound tires?
Im leaving Friday and will have practice, qual on Sat with the race in the morning Sunday.
Any suggestions for the test are welcome.
MK
Where are you racing this weekend?
You are welcome to try my R888's....I'm sure the fronts will fit-work...but I don't think the rears will (maybe since I run a spacer?).....
07-20-2009, 09:48 PM
#159
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
We are racing at Thunderhill. Looks like 100degree Plus temps too! Lovely!!
anyway, I would glady put a heat cycle on your full treaders, maybe we can do a swap at the NCRC race in late Aug. I dont think I can fit 12" rims and 335s on my car. 335s work, but have to be on a very specific rim. 8" backspacing and I have a credit card space on the fender. changes in temp make it rub, but it will work as I raced with them in WCGT races before they came out with the 305s
Ill try and control the test best I can and provide video and times. the key think is managing the adrenalin. as always, and like most, I have always run fastest in qual or the race, not in practice, but practice is a good indicator if I get some clean laps, which this weekend should be no problem to get.
anyway, I would glady put a heat cycle on your full treaders, maybe we can do a swap at the NCRC race in late Aug. I dont think I can fit 12" rims and 335s on my car. 335s work, but have to be on a very specific rim. 8" backspacing and I have a credit card space on the fender. changes in temp make it rub, but it will work as I raced with them in WCGT races before they came out with the 305s
Ill try and control the test best I can and provide video and times. the key think is managing the adrenalin. as always, and like most, I have always run fastest in qual or the race, not in practice, but practice is a good indicator if I get some clean laps, which this weekend should be no problem to get.
07-21-2009, 04:26 PM
#160
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I did have a chance to use toyos and Hoosiers on the same weekend of racing and raced with the hoosiers in both races. Although the car was more firmly planted and some oversteer was corrected, the times were only about .25 seconds faster than my previous times out at laguna.
My time on V710 was 1:36.8. My time on MPSC was 1:38.6. Yes they were on separate days but still that is a massive difference. I think they are more for autocross they heat up very quickly.
kumho video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb-Od3dBZQc
MPSC video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGMxDlmzrm0
08-11-2009, 09:35 PM
#161
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thats a tough one. If you take side by side video of both, you can see the differences. after watching it a few times, your style seems like it is different on the different day. whats also nice about the video, is that you can actually look at segment times to see if it is all in the braking or in the cornering.
you look like you were only .5 second difference on the first 6 turns. you lost a lot by your entry and exit out of the corkscrew on the MPSCs.
tought to tell. I trust your feeling too, and much of it could be how the car uses the tires. in mine, my set up could be limiting, due to the massive push.
great footage and great laps!
Mk
you look like you were only .5 second difference on the first 6 turns. you lost a lot by your entry and exit out of the corkscrew on the MPSCs.
tought to tell. I trust your feeling too, and much of it could be how the car uses the tires. in mine, my set up could be limiting, due to the massive push.
great footage and great laps!
Mk
Hi Mark - i used Kumho V710s for first time at Laguna Sunday/Monday. These are at LEAST 1 second faster than any other tire I've tried (MPSC, RA1, Nittos, R888s).
My time on V710 was 1:36.8. My time on MPSC was 1:38.6. Yes they were on separate days but still that is a massive difference. I think they are more for autocross they heat up very quickly.
kumho video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb-Od3dBZQc
MPSC video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGMxDlmzrm0
My time on V710 was 1:36.8. My time on MPSC was 1:38.6. Yes they were on separate days but still that is a massive difference. I think they are more for autocross they heat up very quickly.
kumho video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb-Od3dBZQc
MPSC video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGMxDlmzrm0
08-11-2009, 10:05 PM
#162
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A buddy of mine just drove the V710's on a Corvette this weekend with NASA and was ranting and raving about those tires as well. They are widely used in SCCA and considered the best value for competition outlasting the A6 in heat cycles, but faster than the R6. I have heard from some vette guys that they fall off after a few laps and then come back slowly. But they take lots of heat cycles and aren't as heat sensitive as the Hoosiers are.
They are hot in the Auto-x scene as well carrying lots of national champions to victory. I think it's mainly A6 and V710's on most podiums. This also goes for runoffs too, though more A6's there (I think).
Win win if they fit your car and you are on a budget and want to be competitive.
BTW if I'm not mistaken, 1:36 in a 996 GT3 at Leguna is FLYING!!!!! Great driving!
They are hot in the Auto-x scene as well carrying lots of national champions to victory. I think it's mainly A6 and V710's on most podiums. This also goes for runoffs too, though more A6's there (I think).
Win win if they fit your car and you are on a budget and want to be competitive.
BTW if I'm not mistaken, 1:36 in a 996 GT3 at Leguna is FLYING!!!!! Great driving!
08-11-2009, 10:17 PM
#163
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Mark is right though 171 mph, the MPSC were neck and neck with the V710's until the corkscrew. Only slightly behind. 1.5 second made from corkscrew to finish.
The MPSC are no joke, I really love that tire, hate that Michelin is doing away with the 18 sizes for 19's though, highly ignorant of them.
The MPSC are no joke, I really love that tire, hate that Michelin is doing away with the 18 sizes for 19's though, highly ignorant of them.
08-12-2009, 12:44 AM
#164
Rennlist Member
Mark is right though 171 mph, the MPSC were neck and neck with the V710's until the corkscrew. Only slightly behind. 1.5 second made from corkscrew to finish.
The MPSC are no joke, I really love that tire, hate that Michelin is doing away with the 18 sizes for 19's though, highly ignorant of them.
The MPSC are no joke, I really love that tire, hate that Michelin is doing away with the 18 sizes for 19's though, highly ignorant of them.
08-12-2009, 12:58 AM
#165
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I've never had a problem with MPSC. As long as you use very smooth and subtle steering inputs combined with smooth throttle application, they'll treat you right. I've driven them full tread in December at Road Atlanta and nearly bald right after snow at Barber and had no problems with them. These are DE's though so I'm not all out either, and don't need to be up to speed on the first lap.
Might just be me as well, but if you watch the two videos closely the MPSC video looks a bit less dramatic on the steering end. Looks like his hands were lighter on the wheel and the MPSC looked more precise on turn it, that's what I love about them. Of course car setup and track conditions could have had a lot to do with it, but looks that way to me. I got a similar feeling with NT-01's, the steering was dull compared to the MPSC.
Might just be me as well, but if you watch the two videos closely the MPSC video looks a bit less dramatic on the steering end. Looks like his hands were lighter on the wheel and the MPSC looked more precise on turn it, that's what I love about them. Of course car setup and track conditions could have had a lot to do with it, but looks that way to me. I got a similar feeling with NT-01's, the steering was dull compared to the MPSC.