View Poll Results: Who won the debate: MK (HP) or VR (Torque)
Mk won with a simple to understand concept that HP determines torque at the wheels at any speed.
25
17.48%
MK won: When comparing equal HP cars, the one with less torque COULD be better on the road course.
6
4.20%
VR won: When comparing equal HP cars, the one with more torque is better on a road course.
44
30.77%
Neither, as physics dont apply to race cars
18
12.59%
I don't want to open this can of worms again!
50
34.97%
Voters: 143. You may not vote on this poll
Poll: Who won the HP vs Torque debate?
03-17-2009 | 05:08 PM
#106
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From: All Ate Up With Motor
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
03-17-2009 | 05:17 PM
#107
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: Dallas/FortWorth Texas
IBTL...
03-17-2009 | 05:18 PM
#108
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From: saratoga, ca
The bullet that kills VR here is that Dez, asked the question and posed the values. The pseudo scientist, without any formal education in math (it seems) was unable to understand that the 300ftlbs at 6100rpm max torque is 350HP. while the max torque for the higher torque engine was 400ft-lbs at 3800rpm or 289HP. Even with out any massaging of the numbers or graphs, you can clearly see that the average HP for the lower torque engine clearly has advantages at any speed on any track at any time and at any place.
With the guidelines offered by Dez, and its his question, the answer VR posted to him was incorrect, by any measure.
With the guidelines offered by Dez, and its his question, the answer VR posted to him was incorrect, by any measure.
03-17-2009 | 05:19 PM
#109
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From: saratoga, ca
03-17-2009 | 05:20 PM
#110
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From: saratoga, ca
But there are still those crying out to be saved. as long as no one is getting their feelings hurt, lets see if the truth will prevail.
Mk
Mk
03-17-2009 | 05:23 PM
#112
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From: All Ate Up With Motor
Wrong as usual, Mark. But thanks for (as usual) your extra-large dose of sanctimonious condescension.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
03-17-2009 | 05:34 PM
#113
Drifting
Joined: May 2003
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From: Charlotte, NC
03-17-2009 | 05:40 PM
#114
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From: All Ate Up With Motor
03-17-2009 | 05:46 PM
#115
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From: saratoga, ca
Your answser Dez
Ok Dez,
There is your answer 2 months later!
Sorry I didnt graph it out earlier. Might not have had such a battle here.
so, based on your requirements. It doesnt depend. It favors the lower torque, 400hp engine. It will be better in any application accross the board, even without the creative use of close ratio gear boxes.
mk
There is your answer 2 months later!
Sorry I didnt graph it out earlier. Might not have had such a battle here.
so, based on your requirements. It doesnt depend. It favors the lower torque, 400hp engine. It will be better in any application accross the board, even without the creative use of close ratio gear boxes.
mk
03-17-2009 | 05:48 PM
#116
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From: All Ate Up With Motor
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
03-17-2009 | 05:51 PM
#117
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From: saratoga, ca
Over the past few months, you have no problem saying someone is wrong, but a heck of a time saying why. In fact, you still have not stepped up and made a case. I have drawn out very clearly the HP vs torque curve of both Dez's engine options. why dont you tell us all why you are right and I am wrong then?
Seems pretty obvious to me. In fact, if you recoment the higher torque engine, you would be doing your student, friend, interested party, a diservice. clearly, the graphs and values for the lower torque engine in all possible areas.
Mk
Seems pretty obvious to me. In fact, if you recoment the higher torque engine, you would be doing your student, friend, interested party, a diservice. clearly, the graphs and values for the lower torque engine in all possible areas.
Mk
03-17-2009 | 05:53 PM
#119
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From: All Ate Up With Motor
Over the past few months, you have no problem saying someone is wrong, but a heck of a time saying why. In fact, you still have not stepped up and made a case. I have drawn out very clearly the HP vs torque curve of both Dez's engine options. why dont you tell us all why you are right and I am wrong then?
Seems pretty obvious to me. In fact, if you recoment the higher torque engine, you would be doing your student, friend, interested party, a diservice. clearly, the graphs and values for the lower torque engine in all possible areas.
Mk
Seems pretty obvious to me. In fact, if you recoment the higher torque engine, you would be doing your student, friend, interested party, a diservice. clearly, the graphs and values for the lower torque engine in all possible areas.
Mk
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
03-17-2009 | 05:58 PM
#120
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From: saratoga, ca
Hmmm, which bible were you refering to? I guess there is a range from the Dead sea scrolls to the current versions. All interpretations.
By the way, Gallileo was around from 1560s to 1640s.
FYI
As the reign of Elizabeth (1558-1603) was coming to a close, we find a draft for an act of Parliament for a new version of the Bible: "An act for the reducing of diversities of bibles now extant in the English tongue to one settled vulgar translated from the original." The Bishop's Bible of 1568, although it may have eclipsed the Great Bible, was still rivaled by the Geneva Bible. Nothing ever became of this draft during the reign of Elizabeth, who died in 1603, and was succeeded by James 1, as the throne passed from the Tudors to the Stuarts. James was at that time James VI of Scotland, and had been for thirty-seven years. He was born during the period between the Geneva and the Bishop's Bible.
One of the first things done by the new king was the calling of the Hampton Court Conference in January of 1604 "for the hearing, and for the determining, things pretended to be amiss in the church." Here were assembled bishops.........
."
By the way, Gallileo was around from 1560s to 1640s.
FYI
As the reign of Elizabeth (1558-1603) was coming to a close, we find a draft for an act of Parliament for a new version of the Bible: "An act for the reducing of diversities of bibles now extant in the English tongue to one settled vulgar translated from the original." The Bishop's Bible of 1568, although it may have eclipsed the Great Bible, was still rivaled by the Geneva Bible. Nothing ever became of this draft during the reign of Elizabeth, who died in 1603, and was succeeded by James 1, as the throne passed from the Tudors to the Stuarts. James was at that time James VI of Scotland, and had been for thirty-seven years. He was born during the period between the Geneva and the Bishop's Bible.
One of the first things done by the new king was the calling of the Hampton Court Conference in January of 1604 "for the hearing, and for the determining, things pretended to be amiss in the church." Here were assembled bishops.........
."