mglobe

I actually was seventh this weekend...

Veloce Raptor

20 pages or bust.







Professional Racing and Driving Coach

eclou

why does this thread title show up on my screen if Mark is on my "Ignore List?" I find it very irritating.

Bull

You are just like Ground Hog Day there Markie. We pull a string and you respond exactly in the same manner every time, over and over. The more irritated you get, the worse your spelling becomes. Did that little twitch at the side of your eye begin again?

I take you as the master of the valueless posts, Side Show Boy! No, make that valueless, repetitive threads.

deep_uv

Yup.

J richard

...

A.Wayne

C'mon mark ,lift up your left , a little higher, yeah dat's it now jab,jab,jab

mark kibort

VR, are you that ignorant? I mean, really?

VR, let me put it to you slowly, so you can understand, because you obviosly are race-tech challenged.

There once was a guy named Newton, who pretty much wrote laws that described all that goes on in our physical universe. He had a law:
F=ma. coupled with the other identity, a=Fs you get:

Acceleration = power/(mass x velocity)

What this means is that acceleration is directly proportional to power and inversely proportional to speed.

What you confuse is that the force that gets you out of the corner, is in the identity : A=F/m. Now, this is at the rear tires pushing on the road.
This is not the torque of the engine, which can be generated at all sorts of rpm levels depending on the engine design. Power dictates any potential force you can apply on ANY mass, whether it be an apple dropped from a tree, or a race car coming off a turn. power is the rate of doing work. power is the capaicity of the force to do work.

Now, I listed two engines, one with a lot less torque than the other, but a broader HP range. It will develope MORE force at the rear wheels, even with its lower engine torque at ANY SPEED on any track at any point on the track.
Even if you get caught in traffic and decide to use an rpm lower than your redline to post shift level. why, because power determines torque, and thus force at the rear wheels.

VR, these are not my laws, they are those of Newton.

VR, HP gets you off a turn and gets you down the straight, you the HP or engine torque knows the difference. Get a grip, its all acceleration of a mass.
USING Dez's contraints.

You come off a turn at 4500rpm for the 4500rpm to 6000rpm car (car A), you have 350hp. you accelerate downt he straight starting with x amount of rear end torque. you end up with 400hp, or x amount of rear end torque.

You now switch cars and go from 6100rpm to 8200rpm as Dez has shown for (Car B) . you start out at 6100rpm off the turn with x torque and 350hp as well, and end up at 400hp or x torque at the rear wheels. VR, the "X" torque is going to be exactly the same off the turn or down the straight based on the criteria Dez has suggested we look at. Even if you get caught lower than post-gear-shift rpm, you will still be at the same rear wheel torque. WHY??? Because HP determines it! again, not my law, Newtons! (If you are still confused, the reason "X" torque is the same, is that if HP is the same, through the gear box with the proprotionally higher rpms and lower torque, they will yeild the same force at the rear wheels on the pavement, PERIOD!)

Now, as far as racing you. I would love to! Come out to laguna and we can give you a little schooling. Put some money on it to make it worth my while.

As far as driving with one hand, I dont think there has been too much of that going on since i fixed my gear shift mechanism. (almost fixed, still broken, but not as bad) But, feel free to criticize the post-fix gear action. With 107 race days, I have had no spins, DNFs, major contact (slight scraps dont count) and have always driven my car home. Im only as good as my times would indicate, and they have always been better than Grand Am cup GS or Speed Touring top 10, while driving a car that I could build tomorrow for under $20k complete. (i.e 1:38.8 laguna, 1:47.9 sears, and 2:01.5 Thunderhill).

Now, go look at my recent laguna race and make coaching comments, because thats probably all you are really able to do reliably. http://www.youtube.com/v/Sih48Dby9d0

mk


PS Here is the graph based on Dez's question. Now, take it to a physics instructor , or someone that UNDERSTANDS racing technology and see if you can undersand how both engines would at worst, perform the same at any point on a race track

mark kibort

Now, VR what I will do is give you one bit of advice. Stop with the "torque pulls me out of the corner" and HP gets me down the straight. Its just nonsence.

What you are doing, is basing the "pull" on large engine, high torque engines that usually indicate a broader HP curve. You are right in leaning toward the high torque engine, as generally you have a better chance of picking the broader HP engine/vehicle. But, as this argument has been about all along, its about is it the rule? Certainly not. I showed you two different engines one with greater torque (engine value) than the other, yet both with near the same HP. In this case, it was VERY clear that the lower torque engine had more HP at the lower rpms, as well as at the higher rpms and had more available HP along the way. What did that mean, that comparison showed CLEARLY, that if put in the same car, both engines would have rear wheel forces based on their HP at any vehicle speed, NOT based on numerical engine torque values.

so, to summarize. power is the key indicator of an engines ability to do work. power is the measure of doing work. torque , if we are talking what is found at the rear wheels, through the gear box, AT any speed, is a measure of doing work as well. Torque, as a value at the engine, coupled with RPM, is an indicator of its abiltiy to do work as well. BUT, alone, it means absolutely nothing. My 4 year old can stand on a 10ft long lever and create 500ft-lbs of torque. Do you want him powering you race car or a GT3RSR pumped to the gills running to 9000rpm at only 275ft-lbs of torque?

food for thought. (if you are hungry)

mk

jgrant

You're wrong. All the pretty graphs in the world aren't going to change that.

Rassel

Max speed is reached when you can't accelerate anymore. Isn't acceleration what you want out from a corner?

Bull

Once again, on command, Markie performs!

onefastviking

+1
Gotta give him points for consistency.

gbaker

Don't they teach science in the 7th grade anymore?

jgrant

I think I saw him last weekend...