View Poll Results: Who won the debate: MK (HP) or VR (Torque)
Mk won with a simple to understand concept that HP determines torque at the wheels at any speed.
25
17.48%
MK won: When comparing equal HP cars, the one with less torque COULD be better on the road course.
6
4.20%
VR won: When comparing equal HP cars, the one with more torque is better on a road course.
44
30.77%
Neither, as physics dont apply to race cars
18
12.59%
I don't want to open this can of worms again!
50
34.97%
Voters: 143. You may not vote on this poll
Poll: Who won the HP vs Torque debate?
03-17-2009, 03:55 PM
#92
Drifting
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
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23 for VR to 16+4 for MK. Looks like the VR's have it.
Personally, I don't think physics applies to race cars since the Bible doesn't say so.
Personally, I don't think physics applies to race cars since the Bible doesn't say so.
Last edited by Bryan Watts; 03-17-2009 at 04:01 PM. Reason: me cain't type good
03-17-2009, 03:57 PM
#93
Rennlist Member
The irony is that I voted for choice #5. 
Mark, there are many differences between us. Among them is that you actually care whether some people on a mostly-anonymous internet message board agree with you and/or tell you you're "right".
I do not.
Know what I'm saying, sweetheart?
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
Mark, there are many differences between us. Among them is that you actually care whether some people on a mostly-anonymous internet message board agree with you and/or tell you you're "right".
I do not.
Know what I'm saying, sweetheart?
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
03-17-2009, 04:02 PM
#94
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
It depends on how you interpret the Bible or VR 
The only thing the VR's have, you KA, is herd mentality.
Of all the 23 voters, not one single one could provide any logic behind their vote.
It just shows my work here is not done.
mk
The only thing the VR's have, you KA, is herd mentality.
Of all the 23 voters, not one single one could provide any logic behind their vote.
It just shows my work here is not done.
mk
03-17-2009, 04:04 PM
#95
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Not quite. All I care about is if the truth is told. THAT is the difference between you and me. I could care less about being called right, i want to be right.
The irony is that I voted for choice #5.
Mark, there are many differences between us. Among them is that you actually care whether some people on a mostly-anonymous internet message board agree with you and/or tell you you're "right".
I do not.
Know what I'm saying, sweetheart?
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
Mark, there are many differences between us. Among them is that you actually care whether some people on a mostly-anonymous internet message board agree with you and/or tell you you're "right".
I do not.
Know what I'm saying, sweetheart?
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
03-17-2009, 04:13 PM
#96
Formula One Spin Doctor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
03-17-2009, 04:13 PM
#97
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
It all started here.
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...is-better.html
Bryan, you dont get it. Put the Bible down before someone gets hurt.
mk
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...is-better.html
Bryan, you dont get it. Put the Bible down before someone gets hurt.
mk
03-17-2009, 04:13 PM
#98
Rennlist Member
Which is why you started a poll to see how many people would say you're "right", then, after losing your own poll, you changed your agenda and claimed victory because those who didn't "vote" for you are "wrong"?
Wow.
Mark, to paraphrase some language we heard during Watergate, your own rhetoric creates a mind-numbing credibility gap of epic proportions.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
Wow.
Mark, to paraphrase some language we heard during Watergate, your own rhetoric creates a mind-numbing credibility gap of epic proportions.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
03-17-2009, 04:14 PM
#99
Rennlist Member
...slowly...feeling....brain....turning.....to...........mush........... must..........unsubscribe..............thre..a..d....................... ............beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
03-17-2009, 04:23 PM
#101
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
You are starting to break the code.
I started the thread to validate how many non-believers there were left here.
There is no victory, only sadness that you and others propagate the nonscience and nonsence that you do.
Call me the Jonny Appleseed of Newton.
You call folks "morons" "idiots", and on an on, and yet you never look in the mirror? They call this , "projection".
Look at how the threads started with Dez. Look at your responses. Look at the facts and for crying out loud, open a highschool physics book!
If im going to get valueable answers here on the list, I want to know who understands the basics, are experts, and are continuing to learn, vs those those think they know it all and are closed minded.
This was a test, in the form of a Poll. You fail!
recap how it started:
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...is-better.html
To use your own words.... "Very Telling".
mk
I started the thread to validate how many non-believers there were left here.
There is no victory, only sadness that you and others propagate the nonscience and nonsence that you do.
Call me the Jonny Appleseed of Newton.
You call folks "morons" "idiots", and on an on, and yet you never look in the mirror? They call this , "projection".
Look at how the threads started with Dez. Look at your responses. Look at the facts and for crying out loud, open a highschool physics book!
If im going to get valueable answers here on the list, I want to know who understands the basics, are experts, and are continuing to learn, vs those those think they know it all and are closed minded.
This was a test, in the form of a Poll. You fail!
recap how it started:
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...is-better.html
To use your own words.... "Very Telling".
mk
Which is why you started a poll to see how many people would say you're "right", then, after losing your own poll, you changed your agenda and claimed victory because those who didn't "vote" for you are "wrong"?
Wow.
Mark, to paraphrase some language we heard during Watergate, your own rhetoric creates a mind-numbing credibility gap of epic proportions.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
Wow.
Mark, to paraphrase some language we heard during Watergate, your own rhetoric creates a mind-numbing credibility gap of epic proportions.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
03-17-2009, 04:28 PM
#102
Rennlist Member
You are starting to break the code.
I started the thread to validate how many non-believers there were left here.
There is no victory, only sadness that you and others propagate the nonscience and nonsence that you do.
Call me the Jonny Appleseed of Newton.
You call folks "morons" "idiots", and on an on, and yet you never look in the mirror? They call this , "projection".
Look at how the threads started with Dez. Look at your responses. Look at the facts and for crying out loud, open a highschool physics book!
If im going to get valueable answers here on the list, I want to know who understands the basics, are experts, and are continuing to learn, vs those those think they know it all and are closed minded.
This was a test, in the form of a Poll. You fail!
recap how it started:
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...is-better.html
To use your own words.... "Very Telling".
mk
I started the thread to validate how many non-believers there were left here.
There is no victory, only sadness that you and others propagate the nonscience and nonsence that you do.
Call me the Jonny Appleseed of Newton.
You call folks "morons" "idiots", and on an on, and yet you never look in the mirror? They call this , "projection".
Look at how the threads started with Dez. Look at your responses. Look at the facts and for crying out loud, open a highschool physics book!
If im going to get valueable answers here on the list, I want to know who understands the basics, are experts, and are continuing to learn, vs those those think they know it all and are closed minded.
This was a test, in the form of a Poll. You fail!
recap how it started:
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...is-better.html
To use your own words.... "Very Telling".
mk
Are you currently receiving electroshock therapy?
I am reminded of a popular movie from some years ago:
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
03-17-2009, 05:04 PM
#104
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
VR, you said below in response to Dez's question:
However I made a quick graph that shows what Dez had outlined for his question below. What you advise is not the case at all and not backed up with the numbers he has provided. It seems at first glance, the lower torque engine powered car, would have more torque at any speed, due to a flatter HP curve. it would better at any point at any track at any speed.
In fact, by Dez's outline of torque and HP values, he just happened to make a very strong case for low torque, high rpm engines. Notice that the average HP over a 27% rpm drop for both yeilds much more HP at any spot on the curves for the lower torque engine! (350-400hp for the lower torque engine and 300 to 400hp for the higher torque engine.) Pretty hard to argue with these value of the guy ASKING the question to begin with.
At worst case, a "depends" could have been offered to Dez, rather than a wrong and misinformed answer.
Take a look, y'all.
Mk
VR SAID:
Good question.
In your example:
Car A (supercharged)
400 hp 396 torque
Peak torque at 3800 rpm
Peak hp at 6000 rpm
Car B (N/A)
400 hp 300 torque
Peak torque at 6100 rpm
Peak hp at 8200 rpm
Both cars make same HP, but car A makes it much lower in the rev range, which is much more useful on a road course (IMO) especially a very technical one such as Barber. In addition, car A also makes peak torque (which is also a lot more than car B's) much MUCH lower in the revs, which is a lot more useful getting out of corners even on more open road courses such as Road Atlanta and VIR.
[QUOTE=Veloce Raptor;6390330]Um....sure you did, Mark. Whatever you say.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
[QUOTE]
However I made a quick graph that shows what Dez had outlined for his question below. What you advise is not the case at all and not backed up with the numbers he has provided. It seems at first glance, the lower torque engine powered car, would have more torque at any speed, due to a flatter HP curve. it would better at any point at any track at any speed.
In fact, by Dez's outline of torque and HP values, he just happened to make a very strong case for low torque, high rpm engines. Notice that the average HP over a 27% rpm drop for both yeilds much more HP at any spot on the curves for the lower torque engine! (350-400hp for the lower torque engine and 300 to 400hp for the higher torque engine.) Pretty hard to argue with these value of the guy ASKING the question to begin with.
At worst case, a "depends" could have been offered to Dez, rather than a wrong and misinformed answer.
Take a look, y'all.
Mk
VR SAID:
Good question.
In your example:
Car A (supercharged)
400 hp 396 torque
Peak torque at 3800 rpm
Peak hp at 6000 rpm
Car B (N/A)
400 hp 300 torque
Peak torque at 6100 rpm
Peak hp at 8200 rpm
Both cars make same HP, but car A makes it much lower in the rev range, which is much more useful on a road course (IMO) especially a very technical one such as Barber. In addition, car A also makes peak torque (which is also a lot more than car B's) much MUCH lower in the revs, which is a lot more useful getting out of corners even on more open road courses such as Road Atlanta and VIR.
[QUOTE=Veloce Raptor;6390330]Um....sure you did, Mark. Whatever you say.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
[QUOTE]
03-17-2009, 05:05 PM
#105
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Ahem: Attention everyone. I declare myself the winner of this poll since I added option five aka " I don't want to open this can of worms again". Based on the score til now, option five is the clear winner. Thanks to all who voted.