View Poll Results: Which passing rules are better?
Current
59
85.51%
Proposed
10
14.49%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll
PCA passing rules
04-19-2018, 07:07 AM
#271
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by mmuller
Here is what I learned in this thread. I need to get the F**k out of SPB and into another class because people don't know how to initiate and complete a safe pass.......
Can't believe this thread has lasted this long. To me the rules are clear. Crystal clear.
To me the rules where written to give latitude for both drivers to interpret clearly and adjust their driving accordingly, and where written to allow stewards the latitude to make decisions that appropriately assign blame.
The intent of the passing rule is -DONT HIT EACH OTHER. Plain and simple. If your going to make a pass and there is a chance you will have contact, DONT DO IT. If your a better racer than them, you will get by them. Be patient.
Simple.
Can't believe this thread has lasted this long. To me the rules are clear. Crystal clear.
To me the rules where written to give latitude for both drivers to interpret clearly and adjust their driving accordingly, and where written to allow stewards the latitude to make decisions that appropriately assign blame.
The intent of the passing rule is -DONT HIT EACH OTHER. Plain and simple. If your going to make a pass and there is a chance you will have contact, DONT DO IT. If your a better racer than them, you will get by them. Be patient.
Simple.
What a schittshow...
04-19-2018, 09:00 AM
#272
Perfect Angel
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
It's funny. Everyone chiming in has a perspective borne of their actual on track experience. Some have been dive-bombed and some have been chopped and in each case the vagueness of the rule as worded becomes an issue. The fact that this thread keeps going and 3 out of 4 issues of Club Racing News have an article about the passing rule going all the way back to the rule's inception speaks to it's lack of clarity. To add to the lack of clarity, recent articles about specific incidents have pinned blame not on the passing car but the car being passed. And not the incidents on the straights as previously referenced.
The rule as worded has been a constant source of debate an confusion.
Yes, common sense rules the day 99% of the time and considering the number of races and racers in our club I think we have a superlative record that speaks to the prevailing level of common sense amongst us all.
But incidents happen. It could be that incidents happen, in part, because the rule is vague. When both cars are racing within the rules as they understand them that's the problem. Car A "has the corner" by a nose but doesn't leave "racing room" for Car B. Both cars are right. This is a typical scenario that could be decided by the scutes in favor of Car A or B.
Where some see flexibility others see a lack of clarity. To my mind, clarity would help prevent incidents rather than the flexibility to decide who's at fault after the contact occurs. We've been left enough rope to hang ourselves IMO.
And I think we can get to 25 pages
The rule as worded has been a constant source of debate an confusion.
Yes, common sense rules the day 99% of the time and considering the number of races and racers in our club I think we have a superlative record that speaks to the prevailing level of common sense amongst us all.
But incidents happen. It could be that incidents happen, in part, because the rule is vague. When both cars are racing within the rules as they understand them that's the problem. Car A "has the corner" by a nose but doesn't leave "racing room" for Car B. Both cars are right. This is a typical scenario that could be decided by the scutes in favor of Car A or B.
Where some see flexibility others see a lack of clarity. To my mind, clarity would help prevent incidents rather than the flexibility to decide who's at fault after the contact occurs. We've been left enough rope to hang ourselves IMO.
And I think we can get to 25 pages
04-19-2018, 09:38 PM
#275
04-19-2018, 11:44 PM
#276
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by ExMB
Prior to his "racing" did you ever run in the same DE group with him. His DE behavior could be a tell tale sign why he keeps this thread open.
04-20-2018, 12:11 AM
#277
04-20-2018, 01:42 PM
#279
Rules?
In my experience, driving better and using common sense is what gets you out of trouble, not different rules.
04-20-2018, 01:50 PM
#280
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www.peterkrause.net
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04-20-2018, 02:13 PM
#281
Remember Lime Rock?
Question to an expert: hf1 gave us an example to support his wanting different rules. I tried doing the math on that. Simply based on lap times, say 62 seconds for an SPB, wouldn't the slower car, 0.5 sec off the pace, be about 63 ft behind when the first car crosses the line? Plenty or racing room into turn one, so no dilemma when it came to club passing rules.
Remember my last lap at LRP racing Keyser's Monza...that was CLOSE
Remember my last lap at LRP racing Keyser's Monza...that was CLOSE
04-20-2018, 02:36 PM
#282
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Question to an expert: hf1 gave us an example to support his wanting different rules. I tried doing the math on that. Simply based on lap times, say 62 seconds for an SPB, wouldn't the slower car, 0.5 sec off the pace, be about 63 ft behind when the first car crosses the line? Plenty or racing room into turn one, so no dilemma when it came to club passing rules.
Remember my last lap at LRP racing Keyser's Monza...that was CLOSE
Remember my last lap at LRP racing Keyser's Monza...that was CLOSE
But, the spread among consistent driver performance (lap-to-lap) is wider among this crowd than even more competitive series, such as when you and Michael ran together. Also, yours and Michael's cars were strong in different areas on the course!
I think you nailed it with your original explanation... and sage advice.
04-20-2018, 08:28 PM
#285
Perfect Angel
Rennlist Member
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Sure thing. Why have a rule book at all then? Screw it! We'll just rely on "common sense" and really really hope that everyone on the track has the exact same perception of proper racing etiquette. I mean everyone from rookie to seasoned pro all have the same perspective right? All on the same page?
What could possibly go wrong!
Heaven forbid that the argument is settled by adding a single sentence to an existing rule that's been debated for 5 years straight.
FYI, interesting reading CR News. It appears that there is yet another article devoted to passing. this time racing room. We now have a definition of racing room:
"We believe that it (racing room) should be enough room for the car to stay on track and not touch the car leaving the room." In other words a car width plus a few inches.
Might be nice if it were in the rulebook instead of having to carry around years of CR News to clarify the rule that doesn't need to be clarified.
Dammit! Stuck on 19!
Last edited by Streak; 04-20-2018 at 09:26 PM.