View Poll Results: Which passing rules are better?
Current
59
85.51%
Proposed
10
14.49%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll
PCA passing rules
04-18-2018, 09:43 AM
#256
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Thread Starter
To your question about behavior: In PCA Club Racing it is expected that we watch out for each other. In practice, this means that on track you don't take unnecessary risk that could result in car to car contact. It also means that you don't always assume that the car that you are overtaking is aware or that others around you always make good decisions. These are the general rules that we PCA Club Racers live by.
If someone has to refer to the rule book to justify an overly aggressive move that went bad because they didn't leave themselves an exit, they are missing the basic spirit of Club Racing. Can you win races with that attitude in a competitive, equally matched class and still have fun - absolutely!
If someone has to refer to the rule book to justify an overly aggressive move that went bad because they didn't leave themselves an exit, they are missing the basic spirit of Club Racing. Can you win races with that attitude in a competitive, equally matched class and still have fun - absolutely!
Not sure it is clear what “good decision” even means when Scenario a “chops” by outside cars (ahead at turn-in) are being encouraged by awarding 13s to the inside car which was denied racing room. The outside car surely must think it has made a “good decision” here. Has it?
04-18-2018, 10:08 AM
#257
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
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If I were coming back from a 13/13 I would be less interested in a strict interpretation of the rules and concentrate more on staying out of incidents. I would work on rebuilding trust with other racers and prove that what happened was either bad luck or that perhaps I have changed. Once I went a season without any issues I might go back to driving "normal" but in the interim I would tread lightly.
Drive like its 3am and a cop is behind you. You know you haven't done anything wrong but you also know someone is watching.
Again, that's just what I would do, and I hope that I never have to find out.
Drive like its 3am and a cop is behind you. You know you haven't done anything wrong but you also know someone is watching.
Again, that's just what I would do, and I hope that I never have to find out.
04-18-2018, 10:08 AM
#258
Rennlist Member
sometimes, in racing as in life, rules don't exist to guide behavior but instead serve merely as a basis to punish the guy who acts like a dick
04-18-2018, 10:29 AM
#260
Burning Brakes
Apex , turn in, overlap, exit room
these are all changing variables......none of them are constant....apex changes based on turn in, track out, traffic, weather, mistakes.....yes there is an ideal apex...percieved...but variable based on car, tires, and driver ability
I believe the rules are meant as guidelines, go to the meeting the night before the weekend and it is explained how each steward expects things to happen....
just like a Judge...its a judgement call.....unfortunately there is just not alot concrete circumstance stances and are universally comprehended.
you may say overlap no divebomb, I may say divebomb, you may call racing room a car width of asphalt, in may call it curbing and asphalt, Matt may call it grass or some sexual innuendo.
You want more clarity, I get it, things should be consistent....and known...get that too....
a referee uses judgement,.....you are asked to as well......if you think the car has overlap please leave room, if you didnt but there was welcome to decision making and mistakes.
the rules are there to attempt a common understanding.....not always gonna happen.
as others have said, drive to your understanding...but...dont hit anyone......
and to go back to quotes
a meteorite hitting your car is an accident; anything else is driver error
these are all changing variables......none of them are constant....apex changes based on turn in, track out, traffic, weather, mistakes.....yes there is an ideal apex...percieved...but variable based on car, tires, and driver ability
I believe the rules are meant as guidelines, go to the meeting the night before the weekend and it is explained how each steward expects things to happen....
just like a Judge...its a judgement call.....unfortunately there is just not alot concrete circumstance stances and are universally comprehended.
you may say overlap no divebomb, I may say divebomb, you may call racing room a car width of asphalt, in may call it curbing and asphalt, Matt may call it grass or some sexual innuendo.
You want more clarity, I get it, things should be consistent....and known...get that too....
a referee uses judgement,.....you are asked to as well......if you think the car has overlap please leave room, if you didnt but there was welcome to decision making and mistakes.
the rules are there to attempt a common understanding.....not always gonna happen.
as others have said, drive to your understanding...but...dont hit anyone......
and to go back to quotes
a meteorite hitting your car is an accident; anything else is driver error
04-18-2018, 10:42 AM
#261
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Thread Starter
If I were coming back from a 13/13 I would be less interested in a strict interpretation of the rules and concentrate more on staying out of incidents. I would work on rebuilding trust with other racers and prove that what happened was either bad luck or that perhaps I have changed. Once I went a season without any issues I might go back to driving "normal" but in the interim I would tread lightly.
04-18-2018, 01:33 PM
#262
Rennlist Member
No, I’m on the outside and being passed on the inside. I’m ahead at turn-in. I go for the apex by which I deny racing room to the inside passing car. Do I get a 13 if the inside car doesn’t pull out and there’s contact?
Well it is if I’m on the outside, ahead at turn-in, and going for the apex. The inside car will be “chopped” out of racing room.
Thx.
Because you would fail the criteria of 'leaving racing room'. It's not that complicated!
It's likely impossible to create a perfect decision/judgement algorithm for every racing situation.
In the end it's about reasonable judgement - doing the best you can do - in a dynamic situation. Common sense. Risk mitigation. Knowing that you will likely have beer(s) after with those you are racing with.
Totally offensive. I am outraged.
04-18-2018, 01:42 PM
#263
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Originally Posted by hf1
All that goes without saying and I agree 100%. Doesn’t answer my question though.
04-18-2018, 01:47 PM
#264
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I think you might be creating ambiguity where there is none through "what if'ing" this.....
I don't believe the intent for "racing room" (RR) is to say if the outside car on turn in (C1), he/she must leave RR if C1 believes they are ahead and not alongside of car 2 (C2). C2 will always have better situational awareness and thus the burden and majority of the responsibility resides with the overtaking car. I think the intent of RR is to say if you are along side, you must give them space and not run them off track, as they are obviously faster and thus overtaking.....not, you must leave them space to initiate and overtake you.
I don't believe the intent for "racing room" (RR) is to say if the outside car on turn in (C1), he/she must leave RR if C1 believes they are ahead and not alongside of car 2 (C2). C2 will always have better situational awareness and thus the burden and majority of the responsibility resides with the overtaking car. I think the intent of RR is to say if you are along side, you must give them space and not run them off track, as they are obviously faster and thus overtaking.....not, you must leave them space to initiate and overtake you.
04-18-2018, 04:06 PM
#266
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I think you might be creating ambiguity where there is none through "what if'ing" this.....
I think the intent of RR is to say if you are along side, you must give them space and not run them off track, as they are obviously faster and thus overtaking.....not, you must leave them space to initiate and overtake you.
I think the intent of RR is to say if you are along side, you must give them space and not run them off track, as they are obviously faster and thus overtaking.....not, you must leave them space to initiate and overtake you.
RR is also specifically required on straights where cars typically cross the width of the track to set up for the next corner.
RR is also specifically required when completing the pass yet not quite “clear” of the overtaken car at track out.
It IS about cooperation.
04-18-2018, 07:56 PM
#267
Rennlist Member
Here is what I learned in this thread. I need to get the F**k out of SPB and into another class because people don't know how to initiate and complete a safe pass.......
Can't believe this thread has lasted this long. To me the rules are clear. Crystal clear.
To me the rules where written to give latitude for both drivers to interpret clearly and adjust their driving accordingly, and where written to allow stewards the latitude to make decisions that appropriately assign blame.
The intent of the passing rule is -DONT HIT EACH OTHER. Plain and simple. If your going to make a pass and there is a chance you will have contact, DONT DO IT. If your a better racer than them, you will get by them. Be patient.
Simple.
Can't believe this thread has lasted this long. To me the rules are clear. Crystal clear.
To me the rules where written to give latitude for both drivers to interpret clearly and adjust their driving accordingly, and where written to allow stewards the latitude to make decisions that appropriately assign blame.
The intent of the passing rule is -DONT HIT EACH OTHER. Plain and simple. If your going to make a pass and there is a chance you will have contact, DONT DO IT. If your a better racer than them, you will get by them. Be patient.
Simple.
04-18-2018, 11:19 PM
#269
.........
I think some just don't get it.
