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I roll my eyes at you. Our rule sets up the mugging. That's the problem. Those are examples of a guy weaponizing the first sentence of our passing rule. If I hadn't backed out I'd have been hit. I had no reason to back out. I had clearly established position on him and he should have left room.
I don't think that the passing rules make you drive down the front straight, on the first lap, sandwiched between two cars, into the 1st turn. You set yourself up. Back out of a no win situation early. Instead of losing one place, you lost two. Be patient.
Sorry if my answers are not satisfactory, they're just based on what I've learned. I started out in a stock sedan class and worked my way up, so I think I can relate. By all means talk with an experienced coach, or an instructor.
I don't think that the passing rules make you drive down the front straight, on the first lap, sandwiched between two cars, into the 1st turn. You set yourself up. Back out of a no win situation early. Instead of losing one place, you lost two. Be patient.
Sorry if my answers are not satisfactory, they're just based on what I've learned. I started out in a stock sedan class and worked my way up, so I think I can relate. By all means talk with an experienced coach, or an instructor.
Wow. Nothing you said about that situation is correct. It was a restart for one. The car on the outside was in class so I only lost one position. The car on the inside was behind me at the restart and not in class but faster in the straight so he is actually the one that put me in the middle while I was taking advantage of the run out of the last corner. I had a better run out of the last corner than the car on the outside almost every single lap. He knew it and I knew it. That's why I attempted the pass there. I was making a pass for position when another car came up on the inside.
Here's the screenshots where I have passed the car on the outside. You can see him in my rearview mirror. He still went for the apex.
So your read is that the guy on the outside squeezes both me and the inside guy and I'm the one who set myself up?!?!?!
OK
I guess I'll just stop trying to pass people when I have a shot at it. Yowza.
This isn't a case of maybe I had overlap. This is a case of a driver who isn't exhibiting the common sense you believe guides us all infallibly. Nor patience. I earned racing room without question. I was ahead at the critical point therefor the corner was mine. The only way to look at that is that the guy on the outside should have been the one to back out as he was behind at turn in. I wasn't moving over on him. I would have tucked in behind the inside guy and all three of us would have gone thru the corner nose to tail. In fact, if inside guy slowed too much, which was likely given his compromised entry to the corner, it would have been an opportunity for outside guy to over/under me.
And once again you are making my point by having a completely different interpretation of the situation and the rule. Assuming you read them because it doesn't sound like you know the classes or the rule at this point. Pretty sure the car on the outside doesn't either.
I did not. This was the first time I'd had issues with him on track.
All my other interactions off track indicate he's lovely guy. I mean that.
He wouldn't be the first person who exhibits dual personalities in and out of the race car
But discussing him personally wasn't my point. The point was to show an example relative to the discussion of the passing rule. This just happens to be good and recent examples for illustration purposes.
If my on track experience at the upcoming WG event is similar I will speak with him about it before Saturday's races.
I did not. This was the first time I'd had issues with him on track.
All my other interactions off track indicate he's lovely guy. I mean that.
He wouldn't be the first person who exhibits dual personalities in and out of the race car
But discussing him personally wasn't my point. The point was to show an example relative to the discussion of the passing rule. This just happens to be good and recent examples for illustration purposes.
If my on track experience at the upcoming WG event is similar I will speak with him about it before Saturday's races.
Come join us in gtb1 , were all friendly on track!
You have to realize and come to terms with the fact that Club racing was founded on Gentelman's racing. I've driven with you and you are NO gentleman. I may not be the fastest car out there, but I have complete car awareness and respect for my other racers, something I witnessned that you do not. As a slower car, you MUST be predictable, you MUST drive the line, It is TOTALLY the passing driver's responsiblity to get by you, SAFELY. Can you imagine the carnage if only some of the driver's adhered to one set of rules and the rest by another? Ridicuous and totally unsafe. There's an addage: Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS.) What you errantly propose makes NO sense, is NOT SAFE and the reason you were 13'ed. Give it up. As Paul so eleoquently said, PCA is not for you. And sorry, I may not be the fastest car out there, but I'd challenge my car control and car awareness to yours anyday. Get a new life and bully someother people. And if PCA is listening, please do not let him back in. He is not respectful of other drivers, cavalier in his driving, and a menace on the track. I am not alone in my opinions.
Wow. Nothing you said about that situation is correct. It was a restart for one. The car on the outside was in class so I only lost one position. The car on the inside was behind me at the restart and not in class but faster in the straight so he is actually the one that put me in the middle while I was taking advantage of the run out of the last corner. I had a better run out of the last corner than the car on the outside almost every single lap. He knew it and I knew it. That's why I attempted the pass there. I was making a pass for position when another car came up on the inside.
Here's the screenshots where I have passed the car on the outside. You can see him in my rearview mirror. He still went for the apex.
So your read is that the guy on the outside squeezes both me and the inside guy and I'm the one who set myself up?!?!?!
OK
I guess I'll just stop trying to pass people when I have a shot at it. Yowza.
This isn't a case of maybe I had overlap. This is a case of a driver who isn't exhibiting the common sense you believe guides us all infallibly. Nor patience. I earned racing room without question. I was ahead at the critical point therefor the corner was mine. The only way to look at that is that the guy on the outside should have been the one to back out as he was behind at turn in. I wasn't moving over on him. I would have tucked in behind the inside guy and all three of us would have gone thru the corner nose to tail. In fact, if inside guy slowed too much, which was likely given his compromised entry to the corner, it would have been an opportunity for outside guy to over/under me.
And once again you are making my point by having a completely different interpretation of the situation and the rule. Assuming you read them because it doesn't sound like you know the classes or the rule at this point. Pretty sure the car on the outside doesn't either.
This thread is like bitcoin - just when I think it is going to bottom out it comes roaring back!
The biggest problem with this thread and the discussion of rules is that most incidents are very subjective. Would a tighter set of rules really fix much? I don't think so.
Wow. Nothing you said about that situation is correct.
“This is a case of a driver who isn't exhibiting the common sense you believe guides us all infallibly”. I did not say that common sense guides us all, I said "use common sense".
You asked for comments and I replied as I see it. My expressing “a completely different interpretation of the situation” correlates with the result of the pole, where 86% of respondents feel that the current rules are clear and perfectly understandable, whereas you and several others (14%) need new rules because you think you’re getting picked on.
I’ll stand by my first comment: “In my experience, driving better and using common sense is what gets you out of trouble, not different rules.”
I offered my opinion based on my experience, which includes a few races where we ran under PCA type passing rules, some SCCA races where we did “lean” on each other sometimes, then five seasons in the IMSA Camel GT series.
Regardless of what club racing organization I am racing with and their rules, I would follow these personal rules:
1. When passing, I always assume the lead driver has not seen me and may go to the apex no matter how much overlap I have. So, if I am not at least even with him at turn-in, I am ready to brake and get the hell out of his way.
2. When a car is behind me, if I believe there is any overlap at all, I leave racing room.
Having said that, I think this idea that it is okay to chop someone if they have not established front bumper to front bumper overlap by turn-in is ridiculous.
Regardless of what club racing organization I am racing with and their rules, I would follow these personal rules:
1. When passing, I always assume the lead driver has not seen me and may go to the apex no matter how much overlap I have. So, if I am not at least even with him at turn-in, I am ready to brake and get the hell out of his way.
2. When a car is behind me, if I believe there is any overlap at all, I leave racing room.
Having said that, I think this idea that it is okay to chop someone if they have not established front bumper to front bumper overlap by turn-in is ridiculous.
I just raced in the AER race at WGI in a Boxter. Total **** show with 25 double yellow flags. I did EXACTLY this above and survived unscathed. Ran a clean race despite complete Carnage every 20 minutes over the course of 18 hours.
The advice above is the best there is. Leave racing room if you're ahead and assume the chop if you are behind. 3 wide through the bus stop a few times and 4 wide through T1 makes for a fun time.
04-22-2018, 12:24 AM
Mugged...
